Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics
o

Notices

Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics Post Your General Gun Topics and Non-S&W Gun and Blade Topics Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2010, 02:02 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,440
Likes: 3,924
Liked 50,371 Times in 6,009 Posts
Default Interesting Tokarev pistol variant

At the Phoenix gun show yesterday, looking for a Tokarev that I could illustrate for a coming article, I chanced on a variation I had not seen before. I understand it's somewhat rare here. This is the Yugoslavian M57 Tokarev. These were introduced in 1957 and became the standard sidearm there. They were made at the Crvena Zastava (Red Banner) state arsenal in what is now Serbia. In roughly 1959, they began to be factory-equipped with a manual safety that operates in the same manner as the 1911 safety. Very positive in operation, unlike some of the tacked-on-for-importation "safeties" I have seen applied to other Tokarevs.

Some changes were made to the original TT-33 design. First, the frame and the magazine were lengthened to allow holding 9 cartridges in the magazine instead of 8. As mentioned, a manual safety was implemented. The recoil spring and guide assembly is a captive unit. The grips carry Yugoslav markings instead of the Soviet "CCCP" (SFRJ = Socialist Federative Republic of [J]ugoslavia). A magazine safety was incorporated (easily removable). The Yugoslavian crest was stamped on the slide just in front of the rear sight. There are 24 slanted gripping serrations on the slide.

Caliber on this one is the standard 7.62x25, although some were made in 9mm parabellum. I estimate this one was made circa 1971 by the "N" prefix on the serial number, although no date or date code is visible on the gun.

J&G Sales of Prescott, AZ has these for about $200. Not bad for a pretty rare variant of a classic pistol. The deal includes an issue holster, one extra magazine and a cleaning rod.

Here's some pics:





Here's a closeup of the Yugoslav crest on the slide. The six torches represent the constituent republics - Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia-Hertzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia. Although hard to make out, the date at the bottom is 29 November, 1943, the date that Yugoslavia was "founded" by Yugoslavian resistance fighters in 1943.



This one is in excellent shape, still loaded with cosmoline. As soon as I get it taken apart and cleaned up, I'll shoot it with some Sellier and Bellot ammo I also picked up at the show.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 10-24-2010 at 06:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-24-2010, 02:08 PM
writerinmo's Avatar
writerinmo writerinmo is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eastern Missouri
Posts: 833
Likes: 19
Liked 49 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Thats in great condition, looks like. Let us know how she shoots.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-24-2010, 03:28 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,440
Likes: 3,924
Liked 50,371 Times in 6,009 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by writerinmo View Post
Thats in great condition, looks like. Let us know how she shoots.
It IS in great condition! I just took it apart to scrub out the cosmoline, and there were still some metal machining chips inside the gun from its manufacture. On closer inspection, I see no signs of it ever having been fired. Even the holster looks brand new. That's pretty good for a gun almost 40 years old!

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 10-24-2010 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:29 PM
Vulcan Bob's Avatar
Vulcan Bob Vulcan Bob is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: central pa
Posts: 5,336
Likes: 2,745
Liked 2,492 Times in 1,182 Posts
Default

Very nice! Definitly post the results of the range session. I had a WWII Russian that shot fairly well. One caution, they are loud, wear foamies under muff's!
__________________
Stay safe people!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:33 PM
zoom6zoom's Avatar
zoom6zoom zoom6zoom is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,018
Likes: 18
Liked 303 Times in 153 Posts
Default

These were added to the C&R list this summer.
Mine showed up in a solid block of cosmoline.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:36 PM
haggis haggis is offline
Absent Comrade
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 16
Liked 203 Times in 87 Posts
Default

John,

That's a excellent photograph of the right side of the gun. I knew that the M57 had a thumb safety added to the gun at some point early in its history. I also believe that both versions were available through some of its manufacture. What I have been unable to determine is when the safety was introduced. Your research says 1959. May I ask where you learned that date?

One interesting thing is that all of the reference books I have about the M57 show it without the manual safety. Remling's book even has a drawing of the M57 with a short (standard) grip, but I think that is just an editing error. A photograph in the same chapter shows the (correct) longer grip.

The one disadvantage to the gun is that the longer magazines are pretty scarce, and therefore expensive.

Regards,

Buck
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:41 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
Default

Got some roughness under the finish, but the longer grip suits many hands better than the CCCP version. Probably works well, too.

Keep us posted. I've occasionally thought of getting one. As one fellow mentioned, the shot/report tends to blow the wax out of your ears! I think that some lots of the ammo are even hotter than the original Mauser 7.62mm. If the bullet hits bone, it probably makes an impact on whoever got shot with one! If it doesn't hit bone, even the .30 US Carbine lacks stopping power.

Thanks for the great photos. Some of your best!

T-Star
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-24-2010, 06:54 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,440
Likes: 3,924
Liked 50,371 Times in 6,009 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by haggis View Post
John,
What I have been unable to determine is when the safety was introduced. Your research says 1959. May I ask where you learned that date?

Regards,

Buck
Buck,

I've spent most of today browsing the various forums relating to Tokarevs in general and this variation in particular. Consensus is that the safety was introduced a couple years after adoption of the M57, about a year or so after actual production began (1958). This would put the introduction of the M57 safety at approximately 1959. Prefixed serial numbers began at about the same time, starting with the letter "A". An upgraded letter was used for each successive year, enabling me to date my pistol with an "N" prefixed serial number at about 1971.

Again, these are approximate dates, but are the best I have for now.

BTW, that thumb safety works very well, rotating a block behind the sear to keep it from moving, and locking the slide. It sure beats other "add on" safety gimmicks I've seen. Also, it does not interfere with the removable sear/hammer mechanism, so that feature is still intact.

Best,
John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 10-25-2010 at 11:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-02-2010, 05:15 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,440
Likes: 3,924
Liked 50,371 Times in 6,009 Posts
Default Shooting impressions: The Yugoslav Tokarev pistol

Today, in celebration of my going to the polls to vote, I took the pistol to my local indoor range to wring it out. As promised, I'll give you my impressions.

First, the 7.62x25 mm Tokarev cartridge is loud out of all proportion to its diminutive size. On the recommendation of others, I used earplugs plus muffs! That bullet sizzles out of the bore at about 1300 fps. Recoil, on the other hand, is entirely manageable, about on a par with the 1911 .45 semiauto. Ejection of the brass was brisk, with shells careening off the lane divider on the right, and ending up as far as 20 feet to the rear. The trigger pull was a bit spongy, I'd guess at about 6-7 lbs let-off weight. Certainly not up to a fine-tuned 1911 release, but better than many pistols I've shot. I'm not about to monkey with the sear/hammer engagement in the unitized assembly.

The manual of arms with this one is almost identical to the drill used on the 1911. My only deviation from my usual procedure was to load the first cartridge from an open slide by pulling it back and releasing it, as the slide release was not really large enough for good purchase with the thumb.

Functioning was perfect, as one would expect with a basic Browning-based design and a bottlenecked cartridge. The M57 Yugo Tokarev has a bit deeper grip frame than its Soviet cousin, and so the magazine holds 9 rounds rather than 8. Loading with my issue loader (my thumb) was about as easy as it is with the 1911 pistol, even to the last round pushed into the magazine.

The issue sights, as you can see with the photo, put me a bit low and to the left using a center hold (sight picture at the bottom of the red dot in the center of the target). The picture shows the result of two-handed (Weaver stance) offhand fire at about "timed fire" cadence - at seven yards. My first shots were pretty close to the center of the target, and then started to wander down. Perhaps it's because my eyes are getting older and/or I was anticipating recoil as I emptied the magazine.

At any rate, the group at the "combat distance" of 21 feet could be covered with a playing card. I find that acceptable for a self-defense pistol.

All in all, I was pleased with the performance of the M57 Yugoslav Tokarev. It combines the ease and simplicity of the 1911 with a larger capacity magazine and a cartridge which will give good penetration, probably enough to go through most standard body armor. I wouldn't trade it for a 1911 .45, but will have to say it's a very serviceable issue pistol with a cartridge that is still quite available in Eastern Europe. Not bad for around $200.

Gotta go - gotta clean it. It's still oozing cosmoline out of corners I couldn't reach after first disassembly and cleaning.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by handejector; 12-14-2010 at 02:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-02-2010, 06:16 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
Default

John-

Thanks. I was curious about how it'd shoot. How's the trigger pull? I once owned a Beretta M-34 that'd have shot better, had it not had a really hard pull. It would still shoot groups at 25 yards that I could cover with my hand.

T-Star

Last edited by Texas Star; 11-02-2010 at 06:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-02-2010, 06:20 PM
Out West's Avatar
Out West Out West is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 255
Liked 307 Times in 140 Posts
Default

I've been looking at these. The little bottle neck cartridge really screams! I don't know that velocity is "all that", but it doesn't hurt.

Do the Yugo versions have issues with brittle firing pins?

The finish on yours is great - as good as I have seen on this type of pistol. If you don't mind, send me a PM and tell me where you bought it. Thanks,

Out
West
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-02-2010, 06:38 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,440
Likes: 3,924
Liked 50,371 Times in 6,009 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Out West View Post
I've been looking at these. The little bottle neck cartridge really screams! I don't know that velocity is "all that", but it doesn't hurt.

Do the Yugo versions have issues with brittle firing pins?

The finish on yours is great - as good as I have seen on this type of pistol. If you don't mind, send me a PM and tell me where you bought it. Thanks,

Out
West
I have not discovered any reference to brittle firing pins on the Yugo Tokarev; I've browsed quite a few forums that discuss the pistol.

As I mentioned in my first post referenced above, I got this one at a Phoenix gun show about 1 1/2 weeks ago from J&G Sales; their home shop is in Prescott, Arizona. You can Google them on the internet, and I'm sure you can find out if there are any left. They were selling fast at the show.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-02-2010, 06:49 PM
amd6547 amd6547 is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Coast of Ohio
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Liked 117 Times in 55 Posts
Default

I've been a fan of the Tokarev for a long time. My own is a Romanian. I am interested in the yugo, and it may be a future purchase.
My Romanian is a useful field pistol...great for backpacking, as the weight is reasonable and it is fairly small and flat. I find that the flat trajectory of the 7.62x25 makes hits at even 100yds pretty easy.
Ammo is very cheap, and I have a sealed 1200rd spam can in my basement right now.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-02-2010, 09:38 PM
Vulcan Bob's Avatar
Vulcan Bob Vulcan Bob is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: central pa
Posts: 5,336
Likes: 2,745
Liked 2,492 Times in 1,182 Posts
Default

Good shooting! I told ya it was loud! No doubt you could tell the officers after a firefight, they were the one's going, huh,what!!??
__________________
Stay safe people!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-07-2011, 03:24 PM
akchef akchef is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

This an older post but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the statement that these frame mounted safeties were factory installed during production. In most cases, the safety instal is well done and that tends to perpetuate the myth that it is original to the pistol.
The military M57 pistols only had the half cock safety. The frame mounted safeties were added before import (to US markets only) to satisfy BATF regulations.
As can be seen in the photos of the pistol in the OP's posts, the metal around the hole in the frame on the right hand side is not blued. Obviously where the hole was chamfered after drilling the hole. In most of them, you will also see the notch that is cut into the slide for the safety is also in the white (although not on the OP's pistol)
Some commercial made M57 "type" pistols made by Zastava have a slide mounted safety but these are few and far between and most were in 9mm.
If you look at pictures and diagrams in the Yugoslav issue manual, there is no safety pictured or listed in the parts breakdown.
Lastly, on most of the M57 pistols, most of the individual parts have a 6 digit number separated by dashes. This is the part number assigned to the various parts. The added safety lever has no such number as it was never an official, issued part.

Picture of original, non import marked, matching numbered bringback M57 (notice the lack of added frame mounted safety)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-07-2011, 03:40 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,440
Likes: 3,924
Liked 50,371 Times in 6,009 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akchef View Post
This an older post but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the statement that these frame mounted safeties were factory installed during production. In most cases, the safety instal is well done and that tends to perpetuate the myth that it is original to the pistol.
The military M57 pistols only had the half cock safety. The frame mounted safeties were added before import (to US markets only) to satisfy BATF regulations.
As can be seen in the photos of the pistol in the OP's posts, the metal around the hole in the frame on the right hand side is not blued. Obviously where the hole was chamfered after drilling the hole. In most of them, you will also see the notch that is cut into the slide for the safety is also in the white (although not on the OP's pistol)
Some commercial made M57 "type" pistols made by Zastava have a slide mounted safety but these are few and far between and most were in 9mm.
If you look at pictures and diagrams in the Yugoslav issue manual, there is no safety pictured or listed in the parts breakdown.
Lastly, on most of the M57 pistols, most of the individual parts have a 6 digit number separated by dashes. This is the part number assigned to the various parts. The added safety lever has no such number as it was never an official, issued part.

Picture of original, non import marked, matching numbered bringback M57 (notice the lack of added frame mounted safety)
Thanks for the interesting information - as you probably read in earlier posts on this thread, some say the safety was added in approximately 1959 - this info derived from internet forum posts, with no other real documentation. Do you have specific references that the safety was a tack-on only to comply with GCA '68? When was the Yugoslav manual printed? If it dates from the '60s, it would lend credence to your comments. Much appreciated!

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-07-2011, 06:36 PM
Dr.-d Dr.-d is offline
Member
Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant Interesting Tokarev pistol variant  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 271
Likes: 21
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Here is a Zastava built commercial 9mm Tokarev with slide mounted safety. Zastava considers it the Model70(A). Marketed as American Arms TT9mm.
The original Tokarev design only has a half-cock for a safety.
The M57 7.62x25 military Yugo Tokarev never had a safety as far as I know. The safetys were added to import them as Surplus.
The safetys seen on the M57 doesn't make sense to me that they came from the factory. If that was the case why not build them just like the Model70(A) 9mm?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tokarev 001.jpg (32.7 KB, 191 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1911, beretta, browning, carbine, cartridge, commercial, military, russian, serrations, sig arms, tokarev, weaver, wwii

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
interesting Milt Sparks variant owned by Keith Malpasowildlifer Gun Leather & Carry Gear 26 10-29-2018 11:05 PM
Interesting Pistol Case tndrfttom The Lounge 5 02-07-2017 06:52 PM
WTS NIB Zastava 762X25 Tokarev pistol (MI) red in mi GUNS - For Sale or Trade 0 02-26-2013 04:06 PM
WTB--Russian Tokarev 7.62X25 Pistol FriedChicken WANTED to Buy 0 08-30-2009 09:07 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)