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  #1  
Old 02-26-2012, 02:17 AM
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Default Rigarmi pocket pistol .25ACP

My SIL gave me this today, and asked me to clean it up for him.

His mother had been carrying it, but she has a drinking problem, and has been hitting the bottle of late. It wasn't clear to me if she gave it to him, or if he took it away from her.

This is the only one of my wife's cell phone pics that came out. The left side is more interesting of course. The slide reads RIGARMI-Brescia-Cal. 6.35 (.25). "RIGARMI" is also embossed along the top of the grips. The takedown button is behind the grip, just below the slide. The safety lever is in front of the grip, just above the trigger.

There was some surface rust on the slide and frame that cleaned up pretty well with Break-Free CLP and Scotch-Brite, leaving just a bit of roughness that may be pitting or may just be more crud on the surface. The bore looks good.
`
Does anybody know anything about this gun? Google entries say stuff like "based on a Browning design", "Beretta clone", and "Saturday night special". The last item notwithstanding, it seems to be pretty well made, but I have yet to try shooting it, which would be the proof of the pudding, I guess. I'll enjoy taking the SIL to the range, but I can't say the prospect exactly has my pulse racing.

There were five rounds in the mag. Is it worth investing a whole box of ammo?
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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"Is it worth investing a whole box of ammo?"

To me it would be. I love to shoot anything. And I have a coupla' 25 acp's that are fun for me & the kids to shoot.

Back in the day, only 25's and Derrengers were common "hideout" guns. That was a time before pocket pistols could be had in any caliber but "small". Your's is one of many import (probably pre 68 gun control act) pistols that could be had cheap and fast.

I think they're cool little guns, shoot it with FMJ ammo and it may do just fine.

GF
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:08 AM
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Oddly enough, I almost ended up with one of those not long ago.

They are pre Gun Control Act of 1968 imports from Italy. The GCA '68 put a stop to the importation of small size and small caliber guns - both the cheap ones as well as stuff like the Walther PPK. This caused guns of this nature (and the PPK for that matter) to eventually be made in the United States.

There are two Rigarmi's, or at least two pistols generally so titled. They seem to differ a bit, and one was made by Galesi.

The mags are supposed to hold six rounds. I wonder if it was downloaded or used once.

I wouldn't carry it with a round in the chamber, but I wouldn't hesitate to fire it either if it were good condition.

You sometimes see them for sale at 300 if they have the box etc, but that's pretty much wishful thinking - even to someone who likes SNS type guns like me. Probably 100 to 150 dollars though.

Many who have SNS imports in .25 report that they work best with S&B's FMJ ammo. Might want to try that.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:12 AM
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Thanks, gents. What a great forum. I had never heard of this gun before yesterday, but sure enough, a couple of guys here know something about it.

Looks like the mag will take a 6th round.

It appears that the Galesi version has the safety lever at the back of the grip; it doubles as the takedown button.

My SIL thought I might like to give him my Model 60 in trade for it. I had to chuckle. But the more I get it shined up, the more it grows on me.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:50 PM
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The styling of that gun looks like it would sit well in the
hand. I've seen other Italian firearms that look like the styling
was an integral part of the whole. They made them look good
so you'd be glad to own it. It'll be interesting to see how it shoots.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:55 PM
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Default Rigarmi , how does it work.

I have a Rigarmi Brescia 25 cal. that shoots well. It shopotss so well that the Bosnians we hired for FPS were looking at me at the range wondering what i was shooting that was grouping that well. I smiled at them and continued. The gun is all steel. The springs were replaced and the weapon is a carry gun. I know some of you think" A .25! what can that do? Do your research it is a viable close range self defence weapon if you train with it enough.
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:43 AM
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The Rigarmi was an Italian import but it is not a clone of any Beretta
or Browning design. The US made Sterling was a close copy of the
Rigarmi. All are striker fired and not really safe to carry chamber
loaded in a pocket in my opinion. Also leaving one cocked for long
periods might weaken the small striker spring resulting in misfires,
not good in a SD pistol. They are decent quality, not great, and I
don't think you would want to trade your 60 for one...or two.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:59 AM
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"SIL" (Sister Inlaw) His, Him ?
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:00 AM
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That one hasn't been fired much at all. Every one I have seen with much use has one or both grip panels cracked behind the screw. Joe
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:25 PM
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Rigarmi pistols were sold by FIE of Miami at least for a while . They put their own model designations to them. 'Guardian' was one of the 25 autos but I don't know if this one was it.

Another of the Italian made under $60 (at the time) pocket guns was the Galesi.
About the same thing, looks almost the same too but made by a different company. There were many of these small shops making stuff like this for export sale mostly to the US but the GCA68 ended all that.

You have to actually shoot them to be sure of how they function. Just manual functioning doesn't tell the story. Some suffer from weak springs. Some are really just poor quality, others not bad at all.
Lot's of similar guns from Belgium too but the W German, Spanish and Italian imports prevailed just after WW2.

Most are nothing really new, just a copy of something else out there or a combination of them. Only so much you can do anyway and still have it work. Some try and get too small and there's a point where the size doesn't allow for motion and springs to work well enough for complete reliability.

Just sold a preWW2 Belgian 'Melior' .25. It has an interesting TD if nothing else using the rear sight & an internal breech block assembly. It was very reliable.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:55 PM
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Why would the GSA68 end importation of these guns? Lack of safety?

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:00 PM
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Couldn't make enough points.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:02 PM
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Points for what?

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:23 PM
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GCA '68 had a silly scheme assigning points to various features of a handgun. If it didn't score enough points, it couldn't be imported. The intent was to keep guns out of the country unless they had "sporting" characteristics. At the same time, the ninnies were threatening to do away with Model 36s with 2-inch barrels ("Saturday Night Specials" ).
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:00 PM
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Points for what?

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What M29 said. The points system looked at barrel length, grip size and even grip type with regard to it being a "sporting arm" or just a very concealable pocket pistol. Very small guns (I forget the exact dimension) with short grips were import banned outright IIRC. These rules still apply and that is why many Makarov and Beretta pistols imported after 1968 have a thumbrest on the right grip, for target shooting as a "sporting arm". Uh-huh.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:19 PM
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What M29 said. The points system looked at barrel length, grip size and even grip type with regard to it being a "sporting arm" or just a very concealable pocket pistol. Very small guns (I forget the exact dimension) with short grips were import banned outright IIRC. These rules still apply and that is why many Makarov and Beretta pistols imported after 1968 have a thumbrest on the right grip, for target shooting as a "sporting arm". Uh-huh.
Oh. So this nonsense started way back then?!?!? :banghead:

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:07 PM
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Looks just like my Galesi. Mine works 100% as long as you use FMJ. The guy I bought it from said it would only fire one rd. before jamming. I had the same result. Until I realized the mag was for a .22

They would fit just dandy. Didn't work too well though.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:36 PM
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Oh. So this nonsense started way back then?!?!? :banghead:

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Lots of stuff started "way back when". Most Americans do not realise that the the first National Firearms Act controlling full auto weapons dates back to the 1930s.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:30 AM
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There's a separate points score card for importation of revolvers,,one for semi autos.
Either had to make first minimum requirements in dimensions. The revolver had to have at least a 3" bbl. The semiauto had to have a manual safety. Both needed to pass a drop test.
From there they gained points for other features.
Not enough points,,sorry, can't come in.

It's still in effect of course. Made for all kinds of changes to imports to try and make the score needed to get into the USA.
Why they can't just get amnesty now I don't know.

It was the end of the importation of the German made PPK, thought the PP made an OK score. The PPK/S was a result of the system as the hybrid model made enough points to get here.
Browning couldn't import the Baby Browning 25 anymore as it simply was too small,,nor the M1910 380.
With the 380, they revampt it w/ adj sites and target grips to make the grade and called it the Model 1971 for the year of importation. Not very popular.

The larger the caliber of the import the more points it got. Those evil small caliber handguns were going to be eliminated one way or another.

Here's a link to the BATF handgun importation scorecards.
http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/downl...f-f-5330-5.pdf

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Old 08-10-2013, 03:47 AM
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Lots of stuff started "way back when". Most Americans do not realise that the the first National Firearms Act controlling full auto weapons dates back to the 1930s.
Some of the towns in the old west, banned carrying guns inside town limits.
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:33 AM
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Now this is starting to make sense. I always wondered why the Russian Makarov had to have its slide cut up and cheesy target sights added. However why didnt the same thing happen to the Bulgarian makarovs that came in about 5 years ago? They came in all original. Just like the Russian they have a DA/SA, external hammer, manual frame mounted safety... Same with the Polish P64 and the WANAD 83.

Some of these rules are just odd. I realize that in 68 they had no way of knowing every type of handgun and what would be imported years later but still they dont make much sense. Just like the CT gun law prior to the school shooting. In CT an AK chambered in the 7.62x39 cal, the original caliber, was illegal because it was an "AK". However, an AK chambered in the later 5.45x39 or even the western 5.56 and 308 were perfectly fine!

So what was really the problem back in 68? Were there so many people getting hurt by these fly by night European gun manufacturers? I cant see FN or Browning .25 being a shady company. What was the actual problem the gov had with these little pistolas?
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:41 PM
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"...What was the actual problem the gov had with these little pistolas?"...

At the time, one of the hot button topics or words of the day for the anti 2A crowd was 'Saturday Night Special'.

"Cheaply made, inexpensively priced, small caliber handguns that are used for nothing more than to kill people. Most are cheap imports." was the mantra.

So became a center piece of the GCA'68 law.
The point system for handgun importation was one.
The banning of importation of any Military Surplus firearms was another.

That second one primarily based on the Italian Carcano that Oswald used in the Kennedy assassination.
The twist to that was a large number of the 6.5 Carcano's are Federal antique status (pre 1899 mfg) and were exempt under the new GCA68 law and continued to be imported.
Those an GEW 88's were about the only 'new' things to be seen on the surplus market for some years.

In 1986, Military Surplus firearms were again allowed to be imported ('86 Omnibus Crime Act). They added the now common 'import stamp' to all of the new arrivals with that law. Any sporting arms imported must also carry the import stamp.
The handgun import scorecard was still in effect. No change there.
Some importers have gotten around it by the addition of target grips and/or sights to get additional needed points. Adding a manual safety (a mandated feature for a semi-auto) is one done to the Makarovs to get them in along with other feature changes to add points.

Some of the more popular banned imports were begining to be produced in the USA, a completely legal way to avoid the import problem and any points score system.
The PPK began mfg in the USA as did the TPH.

Several companys began mfg of Browning 25 auto clones in the USA like Bauer.

But the import ban stays in effect for the little gems wether they're made by FN or Walther or whoever.
They're not big enough to come from outside the USA,,but (for now) they are small enough to be made in the USA.

The anti 2A got their law in '68 based on hysteria and constant use of key words and phrases. Pounding it into the minds of the public over and over again
The law has done basicly nothing.
They've been back again & again for more using the same methods.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
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So what was really the problem back in 68? ?
Emotional reaction to high profile murder (political figures)= GCA of '68. Joe
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:59 PM
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I believe that the Rigarmi was made by Rino Galesi, a member of the Galesi family who formed his own company to produce cheap pistols.
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:20 PM
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My Dad gave my Mom a new Rino Galesi Rigarmi Brescia 6.35 (25 cal) in 1957 which is the date on the piece. I recall the first time she shot it as she came running in the house bleeding from a cut on the web between her thumb and forefinger from the slide kick back. She shot it often over the years, kept in her purse and as a Night Nurse, never left home without it. It always functioned well for her and thankfully had it in her possession when she used it on two occasions I know of. Once while parked in a shopping center late one night a stranger approached her car and persistently knocked on her window trying to get her to roll her window down without saying a word. He left quickly when she pulled it and jacked one in the chamber. On another occasion while returning home and entering the driveway the car lights shone on an intruder with his hand on the front door knob. When she started fireing she said all she saw was the soles of his shoes as he was diving into the woods. My Dad died 2 years after he gave her this gun but cheap or not my Mom used it, shot it, and had reassurance until she passed away in 2004. Now I have it. I had it cleaned and serviced recently; shot it with my family along with our other guns and now my daughter will get it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:34 PM
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Does anyone know of a source to get a firing pin for one of those? My mom has a 1957 Rino Galesi-Rigarui-Brescia version in 25 cal (6.35).
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:46 PM
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Does anyone know of a source to get a firing pin for one of those? My mom has a 1957 Rino Galesi-Rigarui-Brescia version in 25 cal (6.35).
Google Galesi firing pin and a few sources come up- Numrich, Bob's, etc.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:57 PM
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Thx -- Guess I need "Google training"!
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:14 PM
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Purchased a Rigarmi as shown in pic in 1960. Rarely fired it and because it didn't properly eject cartridges. I quit using it and then, last year, stopped in to see a gunsmith. He worked the action a few times and said there is nothing wrong with the pistol. He then looked at the magazine and, for the next half hour, spent time pushing cartridges out of the magazine with his thumbnail. Finally he tweaked the leading (upper) rim of the magazine and, without firing the weapon, said it would work fine. It has not failed to properly eject since.
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:23 PM
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"SIL" (Sister Inlaw) His, Him ?
Been wonderin' too!
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Old 12-28-2014, 05:03 PM
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"SIL" (Sister Inlaw) His, Him ?
Son-in-law I think.
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:43 PM
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Talking Be careful there folks!

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Originally Posted by bamabiker View Post
Son-in-law I think.
I saw that too and remembered the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Wouldn't wanna get dinged or nothin'.
Peace,
Gordon
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2014, 12:24 AM
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labworm labworm is offline
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I like it, I'll bet one of our Mods here would dig it.

All he would have to see is "Made In Italy".
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  #34  
Old 02-08-2015, 01:42 AM
brokugin brokugin is offline
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I just wandered into this conversation by accident a few minutes ago. I realize it's an old discussion, but I'll add to it anyway. I've had one of these for five or six years. We all know the 25ACP is one step above a rubber band gun. I have trouble hitting a 2'x4' target at five feet with my Rigarmi 25. The trigger pull is horrendous and the magazine spring sometimes gets fouled up and causes a failure to feed. I've fired some hollow points through it, and they don't feed any better or worse than FMJs. The ballistics gel test videos I've seen indicate that FMJs are the better choice for anti-personnel applications. About once a year I take it with me when I go to the range, just to empty the magazine. I wouldn't depend on it as a defensive weapon. The only reason I keep it is because it was a cash deal without paperwork. I bought it from a friend who's a collector who comes up with odd stuff sometimes.
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25acp, beretta, browning, model 60, ppk, takedown, walther

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