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  #101  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JaPes View Post
I stridently believe that a law abiding citizen of sound mind should not have to pay a high entrance fee to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. I believe that the Hi-Point's price opens the door to fierarms ownership for those law abiding citizens of sound mind who are on a strict financial budget during the current challenging economy. It fills this niche perfectly.
I wholeheartedly disagree.

Anyone who can pay 100 for a gun can wait a little longer and pay 200 for a much better used gun. My 1985 J-Frame Model 60 with a bobbed hammer was $200 and it's significantly more than 2 Hi-Points worth of gun.

The Hi-Point's straight blowback system and absurdly uncomfortable grip make it a tremendously unpleasant gun to shoot. They look, well. In dog terms the hi-point is:



If, for some reason, people *had* to buy brand new guns and used guns were completely unavailable I might agree with your argument. That's not the case however. For nearly the same money as a hi point a person can have a significantly better used gun.

Life's way too short to own hi points. Get past your commitment bias and come to terms with the fact that most of your hi-point money is gone. Sell the gun. Life will be better when it's gone.

The sun will be just a little bit brighter.

The birds, just that much happier sounding.

The rest of your guns, no longer ashamed to be sitting in a safe sullied by a hi-point.
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  #102  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:58 AM
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What I have found, is that the difference in price is usually the cost of a couple boxes of ammo. Save up and buy nice gun, in the long run you will save money.
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  #103  
Old 05-10-2014, 02:02 AM
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Default A friend loves his.....

A friend told me his was great and suggested I get one instead of a 686. I decided that if I went went the Taurus, even if it was a good gun, I'd never feel quite satisfied. I accepted the sticker pain and haven't looked back since.
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  #104  
Old 05-11-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Straightshooter2 View Post
I'm just curious as to why people bash Taurus so much. Now granted I haven't bought anything from them since the late 80's or early 90's but I have an early Model 92 clone of the Beretta plus my wife has the Model 85 .38 Spcl. and we have always found them to be an excellent weapons. I remember at the time I bought the 92 that the Beretta was $200 more, came with a 1 year warranty and plastic grips while the Taurus came with a lifetime warranty and wood grips. It seemed to me from just the warranty alone that Taurus had more confidence in their pistol than did Beretta. Has the Taurus quality gone downhill since then?

CW
Don't know about what others claim but I've had a Taurus PT-111 for over a decade and it's a fabulous, RELIABLE 9mm that has never had a problem. Prior to this I owned a Taurus M65 .357 Magnum that also NEVER missed a beat. From my experience, Taurus firearms have performed top notch...
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  #105  
Old 05-11-2014, 04:32 PM
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I had a Taurus 94 SS - 9 shot .22LR. The trigger was 20+ lbs in DA and it had a hair SA trigger, internals were all jagged, poorly finished, just gnarly, ....and you couldn't get the spent brass out. It got banged up during the protracted "extraction process" It went back, 2X (maybe more) IIRC - same problems every time. Oh and it spit lead and the lock up was weak too.

I sold it and bought a S&W 34-1. No problems whatsoever.

So, for only $100 more, I met the requirement - FOREVER - filled by a .22LR revolver. But it took a S&W to do that.

Do NOT get me started on Rossi's....
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  #106  
Old 05-11-2014, 04:57 PM
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Had a Taurus 444. Shoot well but split cases and rear sight would wobble
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  #107  
Old 05-12-2014, 05:25 PM
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I personally wouldn't want a Hi-Point, but a lot of people say they are reliable, and they are probably better than nothing. Some people in this country are making daily decisions on whether to buy medicine or food, and to criticize someone for making a gun choice for self-defense when that's all they can afford at the moment is not something I would do.

I don't care for Taurus guns, primarily based on bad experiences and the fact that even though they have a lifetime warranty, their service is slow and you have to pay to ship the gun to them. S&W only warrants their guns to the original purchaser...but you are probably less likely to have a problem with a used S&W than you will have with either a new or used Taurus (who covers the gun, for any subsequent owners too.) Also, Taurus generally will not sell parts for their guns...they are selling parts now for the TCP, I believe, but in general, other than magazines and recoil springs, you have to send the gun to them (according to most reports and reviews.)

I've gone back and forth over this...Taurus has some guns I'd really like to like...the PT111 Millennium G2, for example. The PT92 has a frame mounted safety, whereas the Beretta 92FS doesn't...and I like that better. No matter what, for me, the issue still comes down to the fact that it's ridiculous for a company that provides a lifetime warranty not to pay for shipping. When you can spend $300 on a S&W (you can buy a brand new SD9VE for around $300) that's a much better choice.
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  #108  
Old 05-13-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet View Post
Anyone who can pay 100 for a gun can wait a little longer and pay 200 for a much better used gun. My 1985 J-Frame Model 60 with a bobbed hammer was $200 and it's significantly more than 2 Hi-Points worth of gun.
Man, I never see these kinds of bargains around here...I always read about people finding this or that gun for a LOT less than I've ever seen them here. I guess everything is bigger in Texas...including the price tags!

I've looked at a few used S&Ws, but the lowest price on one I've ever found was $400 for a pretty beat up but functionally OK Model 19; I also found a pretty hard used 3rd Gen 9mm (I don't remember the model) for $379, that was a police trade in, supposedly. I have never, ever found a S&W of any kind, or even a Ruger, for $200.
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  #109  
Old 05-13-2014, 03:56 PM
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My only Taurus was purchased during the Smith boycott. 85 titanium. Quit working (can't remember the problem). Taurus repaired under warranty. Short time later developed a problem with the cylinder (too much rotation resistance). Taurus repaired again. Currently will not reliably fire (firing pin problem?).
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  #110  
Old 05-13-2014, 03:59 PM
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Default GOOD DEALS

WON'T COME LOOKING FOR YOU! It takes time/patience/research/ AND LUCK. Kind of like "how do you get a 10 point buck?" BY NOT shooting the ones less than 10 points.
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  #111  
Old 05-13-2014, 06:18 PM
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Earlier, somewhere in the S&W forums, I detailed my trauma of dealing with Taurus guns.
Summary:
Former employer bought 12 Model 92s. FTF, FTE, FTFeed, key-holing, dreadful accuracy. The armorer gave up on them.
I bought 4 of their .22 Mag revolvers. Key-holing; dreadful accuracy; couldn't rotate the cylinder after 18 rounds; pitched parts. Taking 'em back to the dealer taught me what he REALLY thought of them, when he offered coffee money to buy them back.
Model 100 I got as a donation. FTFeed; keyholing; incredibly poor accuracy - not exaggerating: one-meter groups at 10 meters range. Back to factory TWICE. Came back second time with a note saying it met all specs and was fine. And with a new barrel and lockwork. Works fine, very accurate. Fun, beautiful, wouldn't trust it.
.44 Special revolver. Fail to fire 1 out of 5. Trigger felt like a tank track. To factory, came back fail to fire TWO out of FIVE! To local gunsmith. Fail to Fire 1 out of 10, trigger better, but still so crappy it was hard to hold the gun on target while pulling it. Sold it to someone to whom I gave full disclosure.
Model 92 Compact, gift from a colleague in Italy. Worked fine for him, worked fine for me, turned down many offers to buy it.
Raging Bull: cylinder won't lock into the frame unless forced. THEN it just might fall out anyway. Turned out the metal in the crane is so soft it can't be dressed with a file - it just melts away. We took it apart and found the cylinder base pin (cylinder axle) looks as though it was fitted with a rasp file. A pin for the cylinder stop bolt was bent and the spring was so soft it barely operated the bolt. It's a very pretty door stop.

Miami JBT wondered if any agency issues them. I regret I don't remember the name of the agency, but I was at the Oconomowoc (WI) Sportsmans Club during a SWAT contest some years ago, telling someone my Taurus tales of woe and a person who identified himself as a police officer said his department issued them and they were fine. He then derided Sigs as suffering from cracked frames. I can't say he's wrong about Sigs, only that my employer bought and issued several dozen over a number of years, 228s, 226s, 229s, 220s, 239 (9mm & 357Sig), and not one ever suffered a failure of any kind, and we beat the **** outta them.
Used Beretta 92s frequently show up at reasonable prices, and I'd save the extra few bucks, if necessary, and buy one of those before I'd buy anything by Taurus.
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  #112  
Old 05-13-2014, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
Man, I never see these kinds of bargains around here...I always read about people finding this or that gun for a LOT less than I've ever seen them here. I guess everything is bigger in Texas...including the price tags!

I've looked at a few used S&Ws, but the lowest price on one I've ever found was $400 for a pretty beat up but functionally OK Model 19; I also found a pretty hard used 3rd Gen 9mm (I don't remember the model) for $379, that was a police trade in, supposedly. I have never, ever found a S&W of any kind, or even a Ruger, for $200.
GKC,
Just a note about a $100 dollar guns! Noting about Taurus but thought GKC may get a kick out of this.. I was in a gun store that I don't frequent that much and had see a gun in there it was a snubby H&R .22 got $100 bucks. I didn't have him pull it out but it didn't look bad at all.. Decided not to even look at it because I was not revolver I'm a pistol gun.. after time went on, weeks I found myself thinking about the $100 gun more and more.. So a month later I went back to the gun shop and sure enough it was still there the dealer is located in a bad spot and if you don't know he's small shop is there you would never seeit.. anyway The gun was still there so I had the dealer pull it out timing was good found out it was a 9 shoot and then dealer said he would back it 100% so I said I'll give you $50 for it and you don't even have to back it.. He said he could not but would do $75 and back it! I said OK.. It's a nice little .22 9 shoot H&R blued all steel gun with plastic pear grips.. How could I go wrong.. So for $75 bucks out the door no tax no other fees.. Great little gun.. Dates back to 1951.. It does not have a swing out cylinder you pull a pin and it pops out like a Ruger single action gun.. It's a way cool gun!! And yes it shoots too POA!!! George
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  #113  
Old 05-13-2014, 08:05 PM
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GKC,
Your S&W gen 3 is a 6906 have one great gun! short grip AL frame or 5906 FS frame a steel. maybe! George
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  #114  
Old 05-15-2014, 11:04 AM
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Not a total Taurus basher but I would never buy a Millennium Pro again. I have a PT145 and 140 hanging in my safe that are worthless. On both the safety is broke as well as the slide catch spring. On the 140 it has a very like strike and after repeated strikes will not set off a round. Speaking of slide catch springs, I ordered a few 6 years ago. They still haven't arrived. I will say I did have a 99 that was a very reliable firearm.
OH man the millennium Pro, I made the mistake of buying two of them,1st one had cycleing problems it would lock back almost in between every mag before i sent it back and it was a bitch to get it to go back into battery,got it back and it worked ok but then it was the worst gun i ever had to break doun and clean,and i am by no means a noobe, sold it and told the buyer everything about it and the problems.The second one was the 40cal had catastrofic failure on the second mag, almost to where i was concidering getting a lawyer,The dealer gave me my money back and he took care of the rest.
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  #115  
Old 05-15-2014, 12:19 PM
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Just keep in mind: those old M19s that are commanding so much money today were being bashed many years ago as they shot loose while the Rugers just kept ticking away; S&W then brought out the L-frames. There just wasn't an internet then so the bashing wasn't as common.

I've owned (2) Taurus guns, a snub nose M85 & a PT940. Still have the PT940, it is one of the most accurate guns I own. The M85 did have to go back to Taurus for warranty work - but so did my 686 & my Ruger .22 semi-auto. I'd own another Taurus without reservation.
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  #116  
Old 05-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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Yep I had a S&W Model 19 combat masterpiece bright nickel 4" I think. Was my first gun that I picked up with my money that I worked hard for... It was used but didn't look it. Price was $175.. Loved that gun.. I did shoot it loose with full house ..357 loads but shot real nice with .38's.. Not bashing it a bit.. Just brings back some memories and a few trips to a local gunsmith.. That one Taurus PT 99 I had ran great too.. So I have no issues with Taurus on some of there guns because of the one good one I had. Man did I like that M19 I had. Also liked the M66 I had too..Hope to like the PT 1911 I just got too.. Time will tell! George
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  #117  
Old 05-20-2014, 05:39 PM
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Back in the early '80s I bought a blued 4 inch Taurus 66 .357 Magnum. No problems noted for the years I had it before I sold it to my reenlistment NCO. I bought a Taurus 85SS2UL with the crane lock and longer ejection rod after I retired from the Army and moved home. I didn't have any problems with it, but it went away in a multiple swap for something else I just had to have. I bought another Taurus 85SS2UL later and still have it. Again, no problems. I'm confident enough in it that I loaned it to my older daughter.

There must be some bad Tauri out there, but I've not run across them.
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  #118  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:56 AM
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I currently own 10 S&W and 1 Taurus. The Taurus is a L frame sized 431, 5 shot 44 spec. It is as nice as any of the S&W, Fit, finish, trigger, accuracy.They may have some junk I don't know. I do know mine is a fine gun. I did have problems with my S&W model 18 when I got it years ago, barrel unscrewed, crummy trigger. All fixed now. But, reading in the forums the S&W guys shouldn't be in such a hurry to bash Taurus. I read about canted barrels, grrrred up rifling and forging cones, FTF, poor triggers, and repeated trips to the factory for repairs. S&W makes some fine guns, but they are far from perfect and maybe getting further.
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