Beretta 21A on the way

[scoobysnacker]

I just won one of these on gunbroker, for what seems to be a decent price ($231 shipped). It's an older, blued model with the wooden grips, the finish looks worn and the grips probably need to be refinished. It's the tiny subcompact 22lr, about the size of a cellphone or wallet.

I didn't know I wanted one, until somebody brought one to the range recently and let us shoot it. He set up a 5" steel target at 15 yds and we each shot a magazine through it. For something so small, his had no business being so accurate- I was able to put 2 of 7 on steel standing offhand, and the others were close (would have been on paper, I was shooting slightly to about 7 o'clock). I was grouping pretty tight based on the impact, and I think with a little practice I could dial it in more. No, it isn't like my High Standard or Ruger Mk II, but those aren't so tiny either.

I'm looking at some stuff for it, might have a decent deal on some extra grips etc. I'll post pics when it comes in.

[dmthomp32]

They are accurate little pistols and are super fun to shoot. I have shot ones that operated perfectly (especially with mini mags) and I have fired some that didn't make it through a mag without issues (sadly the one I owned). My thought for questionable pistols is if they look like they have been shot a lot then that is a good thing because they likely function well!! If they look to new then beware! Just my experience. If I could test one before buying and it worked, I'd buy it in a hot minute!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[dr. mordo]

I love the 21. I had one in 25 ACP that I stupidly sold years ago. Whenever I see them these days they are $300+, even sometimes in bad shape.

[squidsix]

I have one, and a 950 Jetfire in .25 ACP.
Its a great design, and I find it very reliable with the right ammo and quite pleasurable to shoot. Mine sits in a seacamp wallet holster from time to time.

[THE PILGRIM]

Keep it clean!
Mine likes MiniMags.

[jimmyj]

I have one but have not shot it in years. IIRC they are picky about the ammo used.

[ISCS Yoda]

Those tiny Berettas are top drawer, handy little guns. I have had a 950 BS in .25 ACP for over 30 years. There was a time, and it was a long time, when it was the only gun I carried and I took it everywhere. I used to call it my go everywhere pistol. Then they passed the CHL law and I switched to bigger guns for concealed carry but, sometimes, the little Beretta comes out with me, anyway. Wonderful, well designed little machine.

[cadmike]

I like my 21a, it’s a great little gun and mine seems to shoot any HV ammo just fine. It’s a great design, the tip up barrel means you should never have to rack the tiny slide in order to chamber a round. It can be carried hammer down for DA/SA operation, or cocked and locked, and even has a half-cock feature. A great deep concealment gun.

[robvious]

mine came with crimson trace grips... they worked but felt silly so I took them off... still have them... just sittin in the box... fun with any HV 22LR... mini-mags work best... enjoy...

[les.b]

I'll bet you love it!!!....

I've got the .32 version, the "Tomcat". It rode in my glovebox for many years. Very small for a .32, but a little larger than the .22lr version. Very well made little gun, and mine has been 100% reliable with the several types of ammo that I have tried with it.



Best Regards, Les

[JayFramer]

Great carry gun. .22 bounces around on the insides, during organs into Swiss cheese. Fantastic defendapistol.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by les.b

I'll bet you love it!!!....

I've got the .32 version, the "Tomcat". It rode in my glovebox for many years. Very small for a .32, but a little larger than the .22lr version. Very well made little gun, and mine has been 100% reliable with the several types of ammo that I have tried with it.



Best Regards, Les

I considered the .32 version, but didn't come across one at nearly the same price point... I figure for $200 and based on my firsthand experience with the 22lr version, that was worth a go.

What really struck me the most, was that for as small as it is, it doesn't feel small in the hand- the grip felt very full and secure. Now, I don't have the largest hands around, but I do shoot, for example, a 92 quite comfortably; and this little 21 felt good. Almost reminds me of holding something like a lemon, with a trigger and barrel protruding in the appropriate place. I've shot bigger small pistols that didn't feel as snug in my grip.
And of course, the .22 doesn't do much of anything regarding recoil, so it was a very pleasant experience.

Regarding .32's, I was able to pick up a FEG in .32 for the difference in price range between the Tomcat and Bobcat, so that gives me the best of both worlds (hopefully). I already have a PA-63 in 9mm Makarov, it feels great in the hand, up til you shoot it, then you get carpal tunnel from the recoil. I'm hoping the .32 retains the same ergodynamics, but with a more pleasant shooting experience.

[RoninPhx]

we have had one for quite a few years. my wife was hiking daily in the phoenix mt. preserves, which with the phoenix heat meant shorts and a t shirt. there were and are some wierdo's in those mountains and on those grails, so i bought one for her. We call it the "bra" gun. fits basically in tat little space between the boobs, can't tell she has it from looking at her. I told her if needed, empty the gun at the problem, throw it at him, and run like the dickens. probably wouldn't chase her far. one thing i did notice was it worked perfectly with the high velocity ammo like stingers, not so much with the cheap stuff.

[H Richard]

I wish you good luck with it. I had one and unfortunately the accuracy was mot good. When I was cleaning it one day I took my inspection light and looked carefully at the bore, there was literally no rifling on the left side of the bore. I had trouble even keeping 30 consecutive rounds on a 50' bullseye target at 50 ft from a rest. I had really liked everything about it but just wasn't accurate, and was pretty picky about ammo. It needed at least High velocity.

[Old Corp]

A friend gave me a Beretta M21 in a 'bag o' gun parts'. He'd disassembled it in an effort to clean and evidently lost just a few parts .

I sent it to Beretta - came back assembled and new grips.
The little bugger is amazing - a little bitty .22 auto should not function and shoot that well. Sights are tiny, but if you're on - it hits. And not ammo-finicky at all.

Really don't have alot of use for a little .22, but am hanging on to it. That friend passed away not too long after him passing that on to me - I keep it because of him.

[scoobysnacker]

For those that handled both, is there much tactile difference between the older wooden grips, and the stock plastic? The one I shot had the plastic, and those felt good.

[5-Shot]

I had a 22 short version for decades. I agree completely with all the praise being heaped upon it. It was tiny, absolutely reliable and absurdly accurate. So why don’t I still have? After about 35 years I finally gave up. Every time I fired it the slide came back and cut a slice out that chubby area between my thumb and forefinger. It was literally a choice between wearing a glove or bleeding. Most embarrassing...either way.

Ed

[7tenz]

The oldest handgun in my collection, purchased in the mid '80s while living in Amarillo TX. Took it out once in mid nineties and was impressed with the accuracy despite it's size.

[tops]

I once owned a Beretta M21 and it was okay to shoot at tin cans but there's no way I would carry one for self defense. They don't have an extractor and if the cartridge doesn't fire the barrel has to be tipped up and something stuck down the barrel too eject the cartridge. Then put another cartridge in the barrel and close it or close the barrel and rack the slide. I don't want too be doing all that if somebody is beating on my head. Larry

[touchoneoff]

Originally Posted by squidsix

I have one, and a 950 Jetfire in .25 ACP.
Its a great design, and I find it very reliable with the right ammo and quite pleasurable to shoot. Mine sits in a seacamp wallet holster from time to time.

VERY nice! I'm jealous.

[Jessie]

Originally Posted by scoobysnacker

For those that handled both, is there much tactile difference between the older wooden grips, and the stock plastic? The one I shot had the plastic, and those felt good.

I’ve shot both and I liked the wood stocked one a little better.
The panels are a little thicker.
There’s very little difference in them, though.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by Jessie

I’ve shot both and I liked the wood stocked one a little better.
The panels are a little thicker.
There’s very little difference in them, though.

So, from the photos, the wood grips look intact and no big dents or scratches, but the finish is peeling off. The medallions are in place and appear fine.

What would be the best way to strip that, acetone? I've got some nail polish remover pads, I figure I can use those and rub the remainder off, and then refinish with BLO.
I want to make sure I don't hurt the medallions with whatever approach I use.

here's some shots from the auction, detailing the grips



The overall appearance of the gun is worn, which is why I think I got it for the price I did. But the grips look completely salvageable.

[Chukar60]

I have owned two of them. First one went to the oldest daughter and the second ended up with the youngest daughter.
When I find another for the right price, I will probably have one for me.
I found HV ammo shot and functioned well out of both guns.

[Drm50]

I've had three 21a all were in like new condition and all shot extremely well for a pistol that small. With better sights there's no telling what you could do with one. Most small pistols even the well made ones are only good for their intended purpose, SD at close range. The 21a is one of the few accurate enough to be practical to plink with. I've never had or shot the Tomcat 32 version but I hear same thing about them. I fired all kinds of 22lr in them including bulk and had no problems with the pistol. Most shooters that are use to shooting full sized 22s will need a little trigger time to get use to a small light gun. It is common that people think that the little pistols have no practical use other than a gut buster. I am one of those and every so often one will come along that will change your mind and the 21a is one of these. That's why I don't own one know. Everyone I've had belongs to one of my buddies know. When they see them shoot they pester you until they get it.

[scoobysnacker]

The Bobcat came in yesterday, I'm waiting for a FEG AP 7.65 to arrive so I can put both on the same form.

My FFL is also my range, I get a discount on transfers for being a member, and they let my fondle and shoot whatever I get immediately (even if I get delayed; I can shoot but just not take it home afterwards).

So, first impressions:
Appearance- fine. Yes, there's some wear on the blued steel, and yes the grips have blotches. But the gun is much smaller than the pictures, so the imperfections are, also. I look back up at those photos of the grips, and realize: I'm looking at that on my desktop. In reality, those photos are maybe 3x the size of the actual grip. I barely notice it and don't feel anything.

Shooting: I took a box of 50 CCI Blazers up, fed and fired all 50 without a hitch. I've got plenty of that around, as well as other stuff, I will now experiment with the others to see what else does and doesn't feed. Got high hopes for the Winchester M22, have some Norma Target, and heck, I have a lot of the cheap bulk stuff.

Accuracy- this was as good as my eyes... the other one I shot had white paint on the front sight, this didn't. I noticed the notch turning white when I was lined up with that, my 50 yr old eyes struggled with the sights on mine. But I have white paint at home ...

Very pleased indeed. I just got some spare mags in, Roberton's Trading Post had Mec Gars for $15, buy 3 for free shipping. They look brand new, hopefully they run as good as they do for other models.

[scoobysnacker]

Brief update... the Mec Gar mags seem fine, a little tougher to load than the factory (doesn't have the little screw in the side to pull it down).

I did 1 mag each of Remington Thunderbolts, Remington Golden Bullets, and Winchester bulk (from a 333 box).

Winchester, one failed to eject, and I had to dig it out with my fingernail.
Another had a FTF on SA, failed again after rotating and trying DA, but then did fire on SA (I think that's got a little more umph to the strike than DA does).

Thunderbolts- had one and get hung on loading, didn't flip but just hung. This was with a mec gar mag.

GB, had a hitch with that too, a couple required adjustment to get into the chamber.


another 50 of Blazer, divided equally among the 4 mags, 100% function again. This was following the others, the gun still has not been cleaned yet. No issue with any of the mags with the Blazer, no feed or eject, no FTF.

This pleases me, I will try some more different rds, but at least I'm establishing that the Blazer ammo is plenty good enough to run it. I have around a case currently (1 500 rd unopened, 1 that has been), and it appears to be a cheap option for purchase.

Accuracy (again)- as I still haven't taken this home yet, the front sight remains blued steel and nearly invisible to my eyes (it's almost exactly at the point I can't focus on with my glasses). So it remains a blur. That said, I was able to locate that blur enough to keep a fist-sized group at about 10 yds, to which I attribute the following: the gun is a nice pointer, and with no recoil or flip to speak of, it doesn't move when firing. I'm shooting standing, offhand, sometimes with two hands, sometimes one.
I fully anticipate that painting the front sight white will greatly enhance visibility, as it did with the other 21A I shot. With a white front sight, that allowed me to see the rear sight, and when the notch turns white I'm on target.

[Jessie]

Since you didn’t clean it between boxes of different ammo the latter brands would be handicapped a little.
With it ejecting the brass from just residual pressure from firing, the crud build up will eventually affect extraction.
After all, .22s are dirty little things

[amazingflapjack]

I've had two-like them a lot-found the service dept very good if you stick with them.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by Jessie

Since you didn’t clean it between boxes of different ammo the latter brands would be handicapped a little.
With it ejecting the brass from just residual pressure from firing, the crud build up will eventually affect extraction.
After all, .22s are dirty little things

Yeah, I was thinking this. And the fact that I closed with Blazer and it functioned 100% again, in that state of dirtyness, has me happy.

The other stuff is the cheap bulk, that comes dumped into a box or a bucket of bullets. Was HOPING, but not expecting, they'd run good.

I still have Winchester M-22 and Norma to test out, as well. I should be able to pick things up monday, and I will clean things up thoroughly.

[THE PILGRIM]

You are a Bold Soul, scoobysnacker!
I just started with Mini Mags, and stayed with them.

[scoobysnacker]

So, the gun has come in and I ended up refinishing the grips. I think it's not half bad.

The photo with the 92 is from prior to doing the grips

[THE PILGRIM]

Hold on a sec-
Your down in Dear Old Louis- Ann !
You need to load up with Troy Landry CCI.
Those Gators will all buy a bus ticket to Kansas!

[scoobysnacker]

Here's a play by play of the grip job.

Scuffed grip.
Soaking in acetone.
Almost ready, 3 and a half hrs in.
After a final wet scrubbing with scotchbrite pad soaked in acetone.
First coat of boiled linseed oil, and with the medallions reinstalled.

This, btw, is a first time effort for me, following what I have read mostly here on this forum. The medallions fell out while soaking in the acetone. I decided to glue them back in after the first coat, and then put more on and over them. I figure the BLO will bind them in even more as it polymerizes; if not I'll glue them down again 😁

[scoobysnacker]

Again, apologies for the orientation of the pictures. Uploading from my phone, since i can't use Flickr anymore

[American1776]

I had one in Inox. The hot .22 lr ammo worked great. Make sure to get the high velocity stuff. Stingers work.

The only draw back to the gun was: If you get a failure to fire (a dud round), since the barrel is tip up without an extractor, you have to insert a wooden dowel into the muzzle end to extract the dud round.

Nice little guns though.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM

Hold on a sec-
Your down in Dear Old Louis- Ann !
You need to load up with Troy Landry CCI.
Those Gators will all buy a bus ticket to Kansas!

Y'know, I briefly saw those at Academy, and then they vanished.

Given the way it runs on CCI Blazer, I'd love to come across some more CCI and stock up.

[cadmike]

Originally Posted by American1776

The only draw back to the gun was: If you get a failure to fire (a dud round), since the barrel is tip up without an extractor, you have to insert a wooden dowel into the muzzle end to extract the dud round.

I’m confused about this, maybe I don’t understand. Why can’t you just tip the barrel up and pluck the cartridge out with a fingernail?

[Jim1392]

Originally Posted by scoobysnacker

Y'know, I briefly saw those at Academy, and then they vanished.

Given the way it runs on CCI Blazer, I'd love to come across some more CCI and stock up.

Targert Sports USA all you want to buy. I have no connection to the company but I've been stocking up on these.

CCI Mini-Mag High Velocity 22lr 40 Gr. Copper Plated RN
5000 rounds

Special $279.50
$.06/round
FREE SHIPPING INCLUDED

[squidsix]

Originally Posted by cadmike

I’m confused about this, maybe I don’t understand. Why can’t you just tip the barrel up and pluck the cartridge out with a fingernail?

Some of us dont have fingernails that can pull that off.
I made up a very short brass rod on a handle that goes with me when out in the woods with the 21A.
Shown in these pics is my 21A alongside my favorite 92, showing how fat the grips are on the little rimfire beretta, lending to the ease with which it is shot. I find the 60 grain Aguila stuff to cycle perfectly in my pistol and are very accurate.

[Chief Wiggums]

Those Bobcats are cool firearms.
The same as just about any other Beretta , they are quality made..
unfortunately - they are too dang small for my hands and i cant shoot them worth hoot.

I think they would serve a great purpose for 'fun-shooting" or a stash gun around the house , barn or wherever

[American1776]

Originally Posted by cadmike

I’m confused about this, maybe I don’t understand. Why can’t you just tip the barrel up and pluck the cartridge out with a fingernail?

squidsix covered this well.

I found that I couldn't just pluck out the round with my fingers or nails. Also, the gun is hot, dirty, and it seemed that the round just wouldn't come out once the gun tried to fire it, but failed.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by American1776

squidsix covered this well.

I found that I couldn't just pluck out the round with my fingers or nails. Also, the gun is hot, dirty, and it seemed that the round just wouldn't come out once the gun tried to fire it, but failed.

I ran into this with some of the cheap bulk stuff (it seems like the CCI in the individual boxes of 50 were good enough to run it).

Along with guns, I also have a fondness for multi-tools. I keep a Gerber MP600 in my pocket most of the time, especially when I go to the range. I've had to tighten grip screws up before, and pry out casings from rifles etc. I used it to dig out a Winchester bulk that was stubborn, and it wasn't hard to avoid marring the barrel chamber.

I got great strike, and if it doesn't fire it's not on the gun, it's on cheap ammo.

Like I said, I left mine a week at the range waiting for the other pistol to come in, but did shoot it. It was pretty dirty but not dry when it came in, and I put maybe another 200 through it without cleaning. CCI Blazer is Good To Go in this.

As for ultimate reliability, this gun falls way into the "fun gun" range, so I'm not that panicked about an occasional mishap. I have a bunch of centerfire pistols that I'd much rather count on for defense.

[Funflyer]

Nice job on the grips, they look great.

[Revo]

Beware the crack!

[Cocked & Locked]

I like them. Have one in .22 and one in .25. Both with their box, papers, and two magazines each.

.22 matte black finish




.25 gloss blue/black finish

[JcMack]

I've got a 21a in .22. I've been looking for a decent 21a in .25 for a long time. The 21a predecessor was the model 20. Those are nice but hard to find. They have wraparound plastic grips like a PPK. 950's only came in .22 short and .25. .22 short mags are tough to find. Some of the Italian bobcat/minx guns have no thumb safety. I've been told to always load the chamber these guns using the tip up feature. The idea being drawing the slide back and letting it pick up a round on the way home may overcome the FP spring tension and cause an AD. Why then during normal operation don't they chain fire. I've had two 950's I've left C&L'ed and it cracked the grip plastic panel. There's something about the torsion springs under the panels contacting the grips inside. If you put the gun away dirty a live round can stick in the chamber. Visually check the bore when you unload one of these tip up's.

[JaseC]

Love mine. First gun I ever bought. Had to be in 1987-88. I’ve shot it thousands of times. I sent it off to Tornado Technology and had the barrel threaded for suppressor. It’s pretty sweet shooting the Avila 60 gr. bullets. Single shot of course. Pretty much shoots any HV ammo.

[Tyree1867]

Ammo advice for the 21A needs repeating. If you will ever carry it for SD you need to load Mini-Mags. That is the only load I found that functioned without fail.
I loved the 21A Bobcat but last year upgraded to a Tomcat. Same size but 32ACP. Happy with it too.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by Revo

Beware the crack!

Not sure I understand this message??? I haven't seen a crack anywhere.
Are these prone to cracking somewhere?
I see someone said don't leave cocked/locked, good advice to note.

Originally Posted by Tyree1867

Ammo advice for the 21A needs repeating. If you will ever carry it for SD you need to load Mini-Mags. That is the only load I found that functioned without fail.
I loved the 21A Bobcat but last year upgraded to a Tomcat. Same size but 32ACP. Happy with it too.

If I were seriously looking at a tiny conceal, the Tomcat in .32 would definitely be my choice.

As it stands, I am satisfied with what else I have for SD. If I want to go small, I have a P-64 in 9x18. Moderate, most likely choice would be a Daewoo DP-51, although my experiences with the Star BM don't leave me feeling too worried.

Re the Mini-Mags, I've read that is the gold standard for the Bobcat as far as reliability, but I went to the range again last night, did another test, and the Blazers again 100% function. Everytime I test them, I do a box of 50, and we're in at least 200 rds. So, I think that's MY go-to.

Winchester M-22. No joy. Didn't extract first case, stuck in there every shot.

Aguila Pistol Match, Norma Match, probably close to 50% failure to eject.

CCI Standard Velocity- one case stuck about every other mag, enough to notice.

Didn't try the Colibri or CCI Quiet, I figure those not even worth fiddling with.

I have some Aguila Super Extra that sounds hot, but then says subsonic... what an odd combination of adjectives.

[ACORN]

I just bought a 21a with thoughts of gifting to my daughter. I’ve had couple of these over the years, and, you know. This morning I stopped at the local pushers shop and they had this used matte 21a with plastic stocks for $175 plus fees. If I can escape tonight I’m going to run some Stingers and others through it to check for reliability.