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Old 03-10-2012, 08:02 PM
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Default The Polish Radom pistol - a fascinating history

I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust.

Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power. It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power. The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the hammer retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly. The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down. The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse. Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however.

When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria.

This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch. Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The "VIS" on the right grip panel is Latin for "power" or "force." The "FB" on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland.

This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo.

John



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Old 03-10-2012, 08:24 PM
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As a collector of classic military pistols , I love it! First the Lahti , now the Radom. The P-35(p) is one of my favorites , being half Polish myself.

Often heard it called, The Last Cavalry Pistol , as the Poles still had cavalry in 1935. Heavy Browning influence is obvious. The decocker tells ya this gun was designed to be carried hammer down on a loaded chamber and thumb-cocked.

Picked this one up at auction awhile ago.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:12 PM
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Default German markings on the Polish Radom pistol

Luckily for collectors, Germans have always been meticulous about marking their firearms, both military and commercial. It's fun to "read the marks" that can tell you a lot about firearms made in or accepted by Germany. Here are the marks on a Polish P.35 Radom pistol made in 1942.



In this picture you will see the "Eagle over WaA77" mark on both the slide and the frame. This waffenamt codes the pistol as being made at the Polish weapons factory in Radom.

The next mark (somewhat indistinct) "P.35(p)" is the official German designation for the Radom P.35. The (p) stands for polnische, the German word for "polish".

The Eagle over Swastika indicates ownership by Nazi Germany.

The "Eagle over 623" stamp indicates that the pistol was given its final acceptance at the Steyr plant in Austria. From there it was likely shipped to the German armed forces, likely paratroopers, police or SS.



The markings on the barrel camming lug are fairly straightforward. At the top are the last three digits of the serial number, insuring that the proper barrel is mated with the proper slide and frame.

Next are two "Eagle over 623" acceptance stamps by the Steyr plant in Austria. Probably dimension checks and a proof load.

And finally, the "Eagle over swastika" ownership stamp of Nazi Germany.

Again, the history of a German firearm can be read if you know their marking customs and codes. Although this is a Polish-made firearm, if the Germans used it, it was marked per their protocols. Hope you found this as interesting as I did.

John
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
Luckily for collectors, Germans have always been meticulous about marking their firearms, both military and commercial. It's fun to "read the marks" that can tell you a lot about firearms made in or accepted by Germany. Here are the marks on a Polish P.35 Radom pistol made in 1942.



In this picture you will see the "Eagle over WaA77" mark on both the slide and the frame. This waffenamt codes the pistol as being made at the Polish weapons factory in Radom.

The next mark (somewhat indistinct) "P.35(p)" is the official German designation for the Radom P.35.

The Eagle over Swastika indicates ownership by Nazi Germany.

The "Eagle over 623" stamp indicates that the pistol was given its final acceptance at the Steyr plant in Austria. From there it was likely shipped to the German armed forces, likely paratroopers, police or SS.



The markings on the barrel camming lug are fairly straightforward. At the top are the last three digits of the serial number, insuring that the proper barrel is mated with the proper slide and frame.

Next are two "Eagle over 623" acceptance stamps by the Steyr plant in Austria. Probably dimension checks and a proof load.

And finally, the "Eagle over swastika" ownership stamp of Nazi Germany.

Again, the history of a German firearm can be read if you know their marking customs and codes. Although this is a Polish-made firearm, if the Germans used it, it was marked per their protocols. Hope you found this as interesting as I did.

John
John-

The same is true of their wine labels, which are very informative. It's well worth learning to read them.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:25 PM
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I have one of the later model ones without the takedown lever. It is Nazi marked, but it is also in rough condition (it was neglected in a basement after a flood).
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:53 PM
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Paladin thanks for posting good stuff like this, I like it!!

The VIS and the Hi-Power were developed and adopted around the same time frame 1929-1935. I wouldn't quite say the GP35 is part parent of the VIS more like a brother from another mother.(where's the smiley face)

The Nazi Navy used a few of these, on another forum someone posted one that was recovered from a sunken U-boat.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:28 PM
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Very nice example and educational post.
Thanks
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:38 PM
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Great pics, as usual.

A high school buddy had one of these, but I never got to shoot it. I think he paid $17.50 for it, in NRA Very Good condition.That was back in the 1960's, though. They've gone up.

My first handgun was a Webley MK VI converted to .45 ACP. Back then, I didn't know the pressure issues in a gun proofed for .455. But it never blew a chamber. My mother had to sign the paperwork, as I was just 13. Father got me a Colt M1917 a couple of Christmases later. The Webley cost $13.88, the Colt three bucks more. A No. 4 SMLE by Savage arrived about then, too, but I don't know the price. Probably $14.95 at a famous department store. The Webley came from Montgomery Ward's. Can you imagine dept. stores selling guns now?!

I like the way the Radom fits my hand, but never bought one. The lack of a conventional 1911 style safety bothered me, and I put my meager funds into a real Colt .45 auto. The Germans made wide use of them, probably in part because they took the standard 9mm round. I've seen a photo of one on a Jerry in North Africa.

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Old 03-13-2012, 12:45 PM
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I would love to see the same details done about the Polish P64.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:25 PM
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Paladin thanks for posting good stuff like this, I like it!!

The VIS and the Hi-Power were developed and adopted around the same time frame 1929-1935. I wouldn't quite say the GP35 is part parent of the VIS more like a brother from another mother.(where's the smiley face)
There has been some speculation about whether FN/Belgium people came to Poland to assist in the design of the Radom pistol. Recent research has indicated that there was no collaboration on the design by FN. The gun was designed quite independently by Polish designers Piotr Wilniewczyc and Jan Skrzypiński starting in 1930. In their work, they obviously borrowed heavily from John Browning's M1911 pistol, on which the patents were expiring. The main High Power similarity is the use of a cam rather than a swinging link to unlock the barrel from the slide. At the time the Radom was being designed, the High Power had not yet been introduced, although it was under development by Dieudonne Saive at FN following Browning's untimely death in 1926. The Radom did not use an integrally ramped barrel, which was introduced on the High Power when it was first produced in 1935.

John
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:31 PM
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There has been some speculation about whether FN/Belgium people came to Poland to assist in the design of the Radom pistol. Recent research has indicated that there was no collaboration on the design by FN. The gun was designed quite independently by Polish designers Piotr Wilniewczyc and Jan Skrzypiński starting in 1930. In their work, they obviously borrowed heavily from John Browning's M1911 pistol, on which the patents were expiring. The main High Power similarity is the use of a cam rather than a swinging link to unlock the barrel from the slide. At the time the Radom was being designed, the High Power had not yet been introduced, although it was under development by Dieudonne Saive at FN following Browning's untimely death in 1926. The Radom did not use an integrally ramped barrel, which was introduced on the High Power when it was first produced in 1935.

John
John, Yes, Piotr Wiliniewczyc as written in Bergers book denies that FN supplied any design help. Berger mentions also that Wiliniewczyc considered the 1911 and Browning 1903 to be the most modern designs available when the VIS was concepted.

The VIS, as short lived as it was makes for an interesting collectible in it's variations that it went through, mostly by the Nazi's.

Very interesting time frame period where great minds and great designs came about VIS,GP35,TT30/33 throw in Walther with the PP and Mauser HSc. All granddads to certain degree of whats around today.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:40 PM
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Great thread and posts. I had heard some time ago that the Radom was considered by some to be one of the better 9mm semi-autos in its day.

It's interesting that this thread is here now. Two weekends ago at the gunshow I saw one on a table and considered buying it but I passed.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:41 PM
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Nice VIZ 35 Paladin, and an informative post. I have wanted one for a long time but have not found an example of an early one in good enough shape for my tastes at a price that I thought was fair. I might recommend a new book to all that are interested: VIS Radom, A Study and Photographic Album of Poland's Finest Pistol by William J. York. This is a new book from Wet Dog Publications that was just printed last year and is very well done.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:49 PM
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Anyone else read the title as "The Polish Random pistol..." and wonder, what's random about it?
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust.

Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power. It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power. The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the hammer retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly. The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down. The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse. Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however.

When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria.

This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch. Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The "VIS" on the right grip panel is Latin for "power" or "force." The "FB" on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland.

This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo.

John



I have really appreciated reading this thread.

I have a Mod 35 VIS 9mm. It has a serial number starting with a P. It has solid pins. It has a white barrel. It does have the take down lever. All numbers matching. It has all the acceptance marks. It is approximately 85 to 90%. Speaking of the acceptance marks; this is what I have been trying to learn is exactly what they all mean. This thread finally gave me that information!

I have been considering selling my Radom, but the more I learn about it, the less I want to sell it. It does shoot very nicely.

Economics still might force me to sell it. However, I don't really know for certain what it is worth. I have heard as low as $300 and as high as $1200. I will not give it away. If all I can get is $500 or less - I will definitely keep it. I will post pictures of it when I get a chance. Any advise from you, since you really seam to know this gun and it's values?
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:18 PM
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:54 PM
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John,

Thanks once again for a very informative post. I look forward to these and appreciate the research and detail you put into each one.

Jerry
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:19 PM
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+1 on j38! I love these history lessons. Probably never
would've found out as much about the Radom, or many other
firearms, as posted here by people who know what they're
talking about. Thanks, all.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:40 PM
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Not as pretty as a Hi Power, but definitely not homely. Great info!
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:50 PM
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I have a friend here who is one of the foremost collectors of Radoms in the country. To say that his collection is extensive is an understatement.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:11 AM
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Wow, that is a VERY nice example of a 3 lever Radom, and it survived the war in amazingly good condition.

I have managed to acquire a nice Luger, and a 'shooter' grade Lahti, (which despite a bore which can only charitably called 'rough' it is my second most accurate 9mm) but Radoms are quite rare at gun shows, it seems. I've never seen one for sale with the take down lever.

The few I've seen for sale were in quite rough shape, and were very expensive.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:28 AM
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Ain't got time for a pic right now , but one of mine has a eagle over WAA-77 and the other has an eagle over a 77.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:05 PM
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My Father brought back a late war Radom and a P-38 when he returned from WWII. We shot them side-by-side one day in the late 1980's. We both felt that the sights were better on the P-38, but we both shot better with the Radom, and agreed it seemed to be a better pistol.

They both reside in my safe now, since my Father's passing. I'll have to take them out to the range again one of these days, see if I still feel the same way.

Tim
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwoods Wisconsin View Post
I have really appreciated reading this thread.

I have a Mod 35 VIS 9mm. It has a serial number starting with a P. It has solid pins. It has a white barrel. It does have the take down lever. All numbers matching. It has all the acceptance marks. It is approximately 85 to 90%. Speaking of the acceptance marks; this is what I have been trying to learn is exactly what they all mean. This thread finally gave me that information!

I have been considering selling my Radom, but the more I learn about it, the less I want to sell it. It does shoot very nicely.

Economics still might force me to sell it. However, I don't really know for certain what it is worth. I have heard as low as $300 and as high as $1200. I will not give it away. If all I can get is $500 or less - I will definitely keep it. I will post pictures of it when I get a chance. Any advise from you, since you really seam to know this gun and it's values?
I wrote a copyrighted article for Dillon's Blue Press catalog/magazine which gives more complete information. I'm posting the text below. As for values, you'd be best advised to check the internet gun auction sites. I hope this helps.

John

---------------------------------------------------------------

Often overlooked in the multitude of pistols used during World War II, the VIS pistol made in Radom, Poland is regarded by many experts as one of the finest. When the Germans overran Poland at the start of the war, they appropriated the manufacturing plant and proceeded to arm many of their forces with the pistol. Most of these guns encountered today will accordingly show German acceptance stampings. This was a robust, reliable and quality arm well deserving of a spot on the list of classic handguns.

In the late 1920s, Poland’s military was armed with a jumble of handguns, ranging from Nagant revolvers to Mauser and Browning pistols. Seeking to correct this disorganized situation, a standard handgun was sought that would be particularly suitable for the Polish cavalry. Designers Piotr Wilniewczyc and Jan Skrzypiński began work on a pistol in 1930 at the Fabryka Broni (Weapon Factory) in the city of Radom under the guidance of Director Kazimierz Ołdakowski. In their efforts, they borrowed heavily from John Browning’s U.S. Model of 1911 pistol, as those patents were expiring. The resultant handgun bore a resemblance to the U.S. gun, but it had some interesting twists. First, the chambering would be in 9x19mm Parabellum, which was becoming the de facto standard in Europe. Next, the barrel was dropped from locking engagement with the slide by a cam rather than the swinging link employed by Browning. There was no manual safety, but at the request of the cavalry, a decocking lever was employed at the rear of the slide to enable one-handed decocking – the other hand being needed to grasp the reins of a horse. This lever withdrew the firing pin deeper into the slide and dropped the hammer safely on the firing pin retaining plate. The trigger, trigger lockwork and grip safety were all pure Browning, but in place of a manual safety, the Polish pistol had a lever which simply served to hold the slide in position for takedown. A spring-loaded floating firing pin shorter than the length of its channel enabled safe carry with the hammer down on a loaded round. The grip safety of the 1911 pistol was retained and operated in exactly the same way, as did the magazine release, placed to the left rear of the trigger. A lanyard loop was located at the bottom of the mainspring housing. Some very early guns were slotted for a detachable buttstock, although few were made and almost never used. A rowel hammer similar to the “Commander” hammer featured on more modern 1911 pistols was utilized, enabling cocking by running the back of the pistol down a trouser leg, tunic or saddle. A captive recoil spring surrounded a full-length recoil spring guide with a spring-loaded buffer; these parts could be removed as a unit. All in all, it was a well-thought-out pistol. Although there has been speculation of some involvement by Belgian Fabrique Nationale engineers who were at the time perfecting the Browning High Power pistol prior to its introduction, nothing to this effect has been verifiable.

The Polish military purchased the rights to the pistol, and in late 1932 and early 1933, trial pistols were issued to various units for additional testing. The pistol was adopted in 1935 as the VIS wz 1935 (VIS Model 1935). Originally, the pistol was to be known as the WiS, using the initials of the designers, but this was quickly changed to VIS, which in Latin means “power,” “strength” or “force.” “VIS” was molded into the right grip panel, and “FB” into the left, which stood for Fabryka Broni, the manufacturing plant. Planned manufacture of the pistol was to total 90,000 pistols, although actual pre-war production is estimated to be around 50,000. The first pistols were beautifully made, with careful attention to detail and lustrous bluing. A Polish heraldic eagle was stamped on the left of the slide. In the years 1936 to 1939, the Radom factory employed over 4,000 workers who were producing motorcycles, bicycles and civilian items as well as pistols. The VIS was produced by the old methods of forging, machining, assembly, inspection and finishing, and it was a high quality item. Then on September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland, starting WWII. Defending Polish horse soldiers wielding pistols were unfortunately no match for panzer armies and the overwhelming onslaught of blitzkrieg warfare. The Radom plant was soon under German control.

In September, 1939, the Radom plant was placed under the direction of new management headed by an official of the Steyr-Daimler-Puch arms factory in Austria. The plant was idle for about a year, and then production began anew. The Polish eagle was no longer stamped on the slide, although other markings remained the same. The Germans called the pistol the P.35(p), meaning Pistole 35 (Polnische) and this model designation was additionally stamped on the slide. Other stamps were an eagle over “Wa77,” which designated the Radom plant as the place of manufacture, an eagle over “623” which was the waffenamt inspection stamp of the Steyr organization, and the acceptance stamp of an eagle over a swastika, indicating Nazi Germany ownership. VIS pistols were provided in large numbers to the Kriegsmarine (German Navy), Polizei (police) units, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers) and the Waffen SS. The pistol pictured was made in 1942, and bears the appropriate German markings.

The quality of pistols produced under German occupation gradually began to decline as the war bore on, and simplification measures were eventually implemented, most notably the elimination of the takedown lever. The pivot pins previously held in by the lever were then staked in place. Still, the pistol was entirely serviceable. In the meantime, the Polish resistance had begun smuggling parts out of the factory to assemble pistols in secret, and when the Nazis discovered this fact, they cruelly and summarily executed 12 workers in front of their shocked associates at the plant. A number of these “underground” pistols were used in the famous Warsaw ghetto uprising in 1943, and in the more extensive general Warsaw uprising in 1944. With the Germans fearing sabotage, barrel production started at the Steyr plant in Austria, and the pistols were assembled from Polish parts and inspected there. In December of 1944 and January of 1945, the Soviets occupied Radom. They discovered that the Radom plant’s inventory and machinery had been removed and relocated. Later it was found that the pistols were being made at that time in a concentration camp in Znaim, Czechoslovakia, about 200 kilometers from Steyr. These “last ditch” pistols were of extremely poor quality and used a number of ersatz expedient parts. Total German-supervised production has been recently estimated to be from 312,000 to 350,000 pistols. When the war in Europe ended in April of 1945, no further VIS pistols were produced. The Radom plant began producing the TT-33 Tokarev pistol for the People’s Republic of Poland under the control of the Soviets. That pistol was admittedly inferior to the VIS, but it was the standard for the occupying troops. In 1997, at the revived Radom plant (then free of Soviet control), some commemorative VIS pistols were produced for a short while.

Today, Radom VIS pistols are quite collectible but are becoming scarce and hard to find, particularly the “Polish eagle” guns made prior to the German occupation. Most specimens made prior to 1944 are very effective sidearms that are well made, reliable and accurate. No World War II weapons collection would be complete without one or more of these interesting and historic handguns.

(c) 2012 JLM
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:41 PM
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Very informative with nothing to add but thanks for the post.Articles/post like this aid many more members than you realize who may eventually come across a Radom and now realize what a great pistol it is.Well done!
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:41 PM
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Thank you for that! I learn a little more about it everyday!

Come on lottery! Then I won't have to sell!!!!
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:51 PM
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I have one that has been in our family for longer than I can remember. It looks plated and upon examination under a microscope the stampings go through the plating. When I get around to it, I will take some macro focus closeups.

http://www.multiwebs.net/misc/vis_mod35.jpg
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:07 PM
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One big sin I committed years ago was selling one I had inherited from my uncle. He was in the 82nd AB with the gliders. He said he and his buddys found a crate of I think 14 of them in a wharehouse. He said they were all new in the holsters with the extra magazines and tools.
They all split them up. When he died I also inherited a luger, a .32 browning etc. I did shoot it a little. I planned on keeping the luger but later that was stolen too. I hate myself for it. It still looked brand new in the holster. The serial # is H 1535.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:19 PM
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Some Radoms show a depression in the frame where the property or proof mark was stamped.

Does that indicate soft steel, especially on later guns?

Many were supposedly made by slave labor, and they may have hated the Germans so much that they really whanged those marks into the steel with excessive force.

Do earlier guns, especially those of Polish origin, show those dents?
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:00 PM
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Hi:
Years ago I read an article where in WWII General Patton gave a Radom and a Browning P-35 to Diana Shore who was entertaining the American Troops. Years later after Diana passing, her former husband George Montgomery had possession of the two pistols.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:36 AM
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Hi:
Years ago I read an article where in WWII General Patton gave a Radom and a Browning P-35 to Diana Shore who was entertaining the American Troops. Years later after Diana passing, her former husband George Montgomery had possession of the two pistols.
Well, he probably knew how to use them. In. "Watutsi", he was skilled with a Colt SAA .45 and a Lee-Enfield, and I think he also starred in some western movies.

I didn't get the impression that he was faking his gun handling.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:00 PM
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Well, he probably knew how to use them. In. "Watutsi", he was skilled with a Colt SAA .45 and a Lee-Enfield, and I think he also starred in some western movies.

I didn't get the impression that he was faking his gun handling.
George Montgomery was also a talented sculptor. One of his statues stands in front of the entrance to the NRA Whittington Center in New Mexico. Here's a shot of the statue, with me near it.

John

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Old 04-13-2013, 11:13 AM
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I have a fb random and it has all the proper markings but it has black hand grips. All other one's I have seen have brown grips does this make a difference. thanks Joe
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:35 AM
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I have a fb random and it has all the proper markings but it has black hand grips. All other one's I have seen have brown grips does this make a difference. thanks Joe
They came with black and brown grips. Original grips are made from Bakelite and are very brittle & chip easily.
Late war guns had grooved wood panels.


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Old 04-13-2013, 11:38 AM
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I have a fb random and it has all the proper markings but it has black hand grips. All other one's I have seen have brown grips does this make a difference. thanks Joe
Both brown and black grips have been noted; there is no difference in value.

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Old 04-13-2013, 11:43 AM
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The first toy gun that I can remember: Uncle eldon came home from the war with the random I wrote of earlier on this thread. I was 5 years old, saw him get out of a car in front of our store with his war bag. He came in and mom and aunt isla went nuts kissing him. I wondered about that. Dad that night told me to look through his guns and pick one. I picked the random. Dad traced it on a board, sawed it out and carved some highlights on it and gave it to me. The next day I took it to school and some older boys put me up to showing the teacher "my pisso" as I called it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:15 PM
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Still no answer about whether the earlier guns show fewer depressions where they stamped markings...who's seen a bunch?

Were the black or brown grips earlier? Maybe the Germans used whatever color was available with current plastic supplies. I think the black came first, but may have been used throughout, even after brown also appeared. Same for P-38 grips.

I think all of the Polish ones I've seen had black grips.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:34 PM
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The one I had, had brown grips. If I look through my stuff I think I have a picture of it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:33 PM
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Still no answer about whether the earlier guns show fewer depressions where they stamped markings...who's seen a bunch?
All I can say is that my '42 example (illustrated in the OP) does have a slight depression under the Waffenamt '77 stamp just forward of the slide lock on the left of the frame. It's so slight as to be barely noticeable except on very close inspection and under the right light.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:19 PM
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:55 PM
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ID the dagger?
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:06 PM
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Texas Star, That is a Nazi police dress bayonet.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:54 AM
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Great post, thanks Paladin, does anyone know where I can get my hands on a set of grips for one? I have one with hand made wood grips, after seeing the originals I think I need a set.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:23 AM
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Great post, thanks Paladin, does anyone know where I can get my hands on a set of grips for one? I have one with hand made wood grips, after seeing the originals I think I need a set.
You might try Gun Parts Corporation (Numrich), or Jack First. Both have web sites.

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Old 05-13-2013, 07:13 AM
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Are you sure the grips are hand made? There are late-war examples of wood grips that may appear rather crude, but are authentic and relatively valuable.
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:00 PM
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Default Recovered Vis 35

Looks like I found the experts here. I've attached a photo of a 1937 Vis 35...serial 6081. My police department recovered the firearm in the possession of a foreign national. I'm trying to locate an owner. I was very surprised to find this firearm when most of the people I deal with carry Jennings, Phoenix, or Bryco pistols. The photo on the handle is very interesting and appears to be a 1940's era photo.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:09 PM
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My girlfriend is VERY Polish, her last name is the ONLY family in the Country with that name. She has me on the lookout for one for her father.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:19 PM
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Looks like I found the experts here. I've attached a photo of a 1937 Vis 35...serial 6081. My police department recovered the firearm in the possession of a foreign national. I'm trying to locate an owner. I was very surprised to find this firearm when most of the people I deal with carry Jennings, Phoenix, or Bryco pistols. The photo on the handle is very interesting and appears to be a 1940's era photo.
You have a treasure there. It's an early Radom with the Polish Eagle on the slide, made in 1937, before the German invasion in 1939. These pre-war examples have the best finish and are highly desirable collectibles. The photo under the plastic (non-standard) grip piece does appear to reflect some 1940s-era women. If only the gun could talk! The magazine appears to be one from a German P.38.

John
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:37 PM
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There's an article on the Radom on the back page of the current American Rifleman.
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by scoutwookie View Post
Looks like I found the experts here. I've attached a photo of a 1937 Vis 35...serial 6081. My police department recovered the firearm in the possession of a foreign national. I'm trying to locate an owner. I was very surprised to find this firearm when most of the people I deal with carry Jennings, Phoenix, or Bryco pistols. The photo on the handle is very interesting and appears to be a 1940's era photo.
Scoutwookie: I recently read a book about a young American officer in WW-II who took a piece of plexiglass off of a downed aircraft and made grips similar to yours for his issued 1911. He then placed a photo of his wife and child under the plexiglass grips and carried it that way throughout the remainder of the war. If I can find the book again (it was from the public library) I will post a reference to it. To me, I think the original or previous owner of your Radom did a very similar thing.

Regards,

Dave
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Radom VIS manufacture date? This thread Refback 05-05-2014 12:48 PM
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My buddy brought another of his collection over. - Page 2 This thread Refback 05-07-2013 11:57 AM
ViS wz 35 "Radom" This thread Refback 04-03-2013 11:45 AM
PowNed : Politie: Doe alsof u thuis bent This thread Refback 12-25-2012 06:20 AM
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