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  #1  
Old 03-18-2012, 12:34 PM
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Default 1860 Light Calvary Sword

Need a little help. Relative is disposing of a few guns and other items, and I have been appraising them for them, and they have both a 1842 Musket, Springfield, ( in fairly poor condition, rust and missing ramrod), and a 1860 Light Calvary Sword that had been passed down from his grandfather. Children do not want either, or any of the really nice shotguns he has. Due to the condition of the 1842 musket I estimated it at $500 due to condition, and the sword I have no idea on. Everything is there, sheath has a few dings and some surface rust, the hilt is all intact, and the blade looks as though someone may have cleaned it sometime in the past, fairly shiny with some "greying" in patch's. I do not have photo's or I would post them. All I can find on the internet is replica's. So if anyone can give me a general idea or possibly where to look I would appreciate it.

Would you believe he has two Colt Diamondbacks, both 4", one a .
22 and the other a .38. Literally NIB. I was shocked when I saw how much those were going for.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:48 PM
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This note suggests a value of $500 to $1000.

myArmoury.com: Lost & Found: A US Model 1860 Cavalry Saber

This sword is/was for sale at $2,950.

RARE IDENTIFIED 1860-DATED AMES MODEL 1860 LIGHT CAVALRY SABER AND SCABBARD - GEORGE BREAN, 6TH NEW JERSEY INFANTRY

I don't know the values, just got interested in what the sword looked like and did a quick search.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:57 PM
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Is the sword marked Ames as the maker? Is the handle tight?

Lacking photos, I can only recall that my son sold one for about $600 a few years ago.

If you have access to copies of, "Man at Arms", check the ads.

The dented scabbard won't help. Are the throat and chape snug on the scabbard? The rings for the belt? Any special markings?
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:15 PM
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Be sure you know the difference between a Mod 1840 and a Mod 1860.
If it is stamped "1860", that is the year of production, not the model.
You need to determine the model, post the maker's name, the date, and even Inspector's initials.
You say it appears to be cleaned- has it been sharpened, ground on, or filed?
They are just like guns: without a full description, all you'll get is a big ballpark, like $450 to $1000.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:51 PM
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I'll post more info in a few days, when I can go back over there and possibly photograph it. In my initial cursory look over I did not see "any" mfg. markings. Would it be marked anywhere besides the blade just below the hilt? I do not believe the blade has been sharpened or filed on. I know nothing about swords
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:28 PM
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There were a lot of imports at the time by both the Union and the Confederacy, markings and Id can be crucial to value.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:05 PM
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My sister just called, using a magnifying glass can only see some teeny tiny marks on the flat of the back of the blade (opposite the edge). Thinks can make out possibly a "M C K". There are no markings at all on the flat of the blade on either side.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:14 PM
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Here's the e-mail address of someone that can help you instantly. His name is Lee, he's a good friend of mine, and he's a published expert on U.S.A. / C.S.A. blades. When you write to him, tell him Glenn sent you. Pictures are best but if you give him a detailed description, he will get you in the ball park for sure.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:44 AM
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Thanks for the email contact. I have gotten photo's yesterday and have emailed to him. Here's a couple of the pictures. Also the 1864 Springfield he has. I placed the condition as "Poor", due to the rust. Do you agree with that condition? I was unable to visualize any ID markings on the sword, other than a "hint" of a oval marking on the back of the blade.


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Old 03-28-2012, 07:58 AM
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It looks like an 1860 Calvary to me. It's missing the leather on the handle. If it is US issue, you'll find small inspectors stamps on the pommel and the side of the drag. Many were imported and purchased by individuals. I'm certainly no expert, but I do have an 1864 dated Mansfield & Lamb and I've owned several Ames, but they were rough and were sold.

With no makers marks on the ricasso and the handle, I think you'd be lucky to get $400 for it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by s&wchad View Post
It looks like an 1860 Calvary to me. It's missing the leather on the handle. If it is US issue, you'll find small inspectors stamps on the pommel and the side of the drag. Many were imported and purchased by individuals. I'm certainly no expert, but I do have an 1864 dated Mansfield & Lamb and I've owned several Ames, but they were rough and were sold.

With no makers marks on the ricasso and the handle, I think you'd be lucky to get $400 for it.
I agree, although the photos aren't detailed enough to be certain. If it is not maker marked, not "named" by provenance it's condition would not command much more than $500 or so. However, if you have some family provenance or might discover more, (i.e. "passed down from his grandfather") that valuation could change in an instant.

Cheers;
Lefty
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:45 AM
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What would be the best for preservation of what it is, a light oil, renaissance Wax like I use on my guns? I assume you do not want to disturb any of the "patina".
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:21 PM
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Look for marks on the scabbard as well as the blade. Many of these sabers were imported from Europe and privately purchased during the Civil War. I have a nice German made example. The only markings are a partially readable date on the blade and some manufactures initials on the end of the scabbard.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:50 AM
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What would be the best for preservation of what it is, a light oil, renaissance Wax like I use on my guns? I assume you do not want to disturb any of the "patina".
Yes. Gently remove any active rust and then renaissance wax to preserve.

Cheers;
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P.S.

Here's a few of mine.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:59 AM
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The one I am working on appears to be like the 4th from the right in your picture. I just want to preserve what I can, it will be going to my sisters oldest son, to retain for family history. Unfortunately he has no interest in any firearms or any outdoor type sports. He is a Prof. at Georgia Tech, and has worked on government science projects way beyond my understanding. Hopefully he will at least keep in his basement and not put out in his garage.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:46 PM
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The one I am working on appears to be like the 4th from the right in your picture. I just want to preserve what I can, it will be going to my sisters oldest son, to retain for family history. Unfortunately he has no interest in any firearms or any outdoor type sports. He is a Prof. at Georgia Tech, and has worked on government science projects way beyond my understanding. Hopefully he will at least keep in his basement and not put out in his garage.
Basically, you want to clean and preserve the saber. Don't be overzealous, nothing harsh. You'd do better doing less than too much, if you know what I mean. Get rid of any active rust (red color) and don't attempt to disturb the patination (black or dark brown rust) that's been there for decades. The fish skin could be professionally restored on the grip, but that's up to you. The wire is still intact and that's all good. Avoid storing the saber in the scabbard for any prolonged period. Keep it in a cool dry area, much as you would a firearm to preserve condition. Wax when clean, dust regularly, clean and wax again periodically. A family heirloom like that deserves preservation, not forgotten exile in a basement. You might consider acquiring it yourself, for your family's posterity. They ain't making them anymore you know!

Cheers;
Lefty
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