We haven't had a bear or shark gun thread this week. Let's have a python topic.

With the exceptions of Frikkie and Peter (both in South Africa), I think the only members here likely to see any pythons are in Florida, where careless pet owners have released so many Burmese pythons into the wild that they have breeding populations, and the snakes are becoming 'way too common. Ditto for Nile monitor lizards, so let's include them, too.

Both can dangerous to humans and pets. Children are especially vulnerable.

I'm sure that some wag will vote for a Colt Python for this job, and it'd work, I'm sure.

Actually, a medium-frame .357 Magnum would probably be my choice, and I'd load .357 ammo, too. Probably the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shook ammo that I usually shoot in that caliber. But I'd feel pretty well protected by Plus P .38 ammo, too, if I got a good head shot. I think the trauma induced by the Speer 125 or 135 grain Short Barrel loads would penetrate the skulls of either animal and probably fritz the brain. Similar stuff from other ammo companies should also suffice. Federal's 129 grain JHP .38 is the lightest load that I'd feel fairly comfortable with.

I think any handgun of .38 Special or heavier caliber will work, inc. 9mm. But reptiles are tenacious of life, so I'm opting for the .357 for added shock and killing power. In particular, if you have to pop a Nile monitor (Varanus niloticus) through the shoulder or another body shot, that lizard might carry more lead than you'd think. Remember, those buggers can exceed eight feet! And they have a nasty bite that tends to become infected. I definitely wouldn't let kids play outside where they are known to be. Same for the pythons. (I can't recall the species name for the Burmese variety and haven't time to look it up. If you need that, just Search under Burmese Python.) The one that Frikkie and Peter may see is the African Rock Python, which typically has a bad temper. Again, the scientific name escapes me at the moment, but no other species will be confused with it there.

Keeping the discussion on HANDGUNS, what'd be your choice to deal with these imported threats? Have any of our Florida members seen either yet?

If Bear Bio or another scientist sees this, do you know how strong their skulls are? What might it take to be sure of full penetration?

Keep in mind that the monitor lizard has sharp claws and a tail that can sting rather badly, in adition to those awful teeth.

The issue with any of these snakes will not be penetration as the skull of a snake is not heavily constructed. However, the brains are small and hitting that little bit of grey matter will be a issue. I've killed a pile of snakes... but none of the exotics. I figure they'll die about the same as similar size domestic snakes. A .44 Mag. w/ any kind of load will unzip the most oversized snake that ever held it's forked tongue out to test the air. A .22 LR will also settle their hash. You just can't get away with blowing them in half (ha!!!) as with a .44 Magnum. Personally I routinely carry a .357 loaded with 158 gr. LSWC's. These loads will kill anything that needs killing in the S.E. United States whether it have legs or just slither along on the ground. Now... occasionally I've been known to carry a nice little .44 Special... specifically a 21-4 loaded with 200 gr. Gold Dots. I like that load. It is pure poison on anything and everything that might need to stop breathing. It is easy to control and will chop a nice hole completely through any of the above... be it import or domestic.

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If possibly one were lurking I would opt for a Glock 20.

The problem is your talking about two different animals. The monitor can move fast and a snakes head moves considerably making them both difficult targets.

I have shot snakes with 357 birdshot and it worked. Problem is you have to get real close. Too close. So 44 mag birdshot would work better. But birdshot probably won't work on the monitor.

I'm just guessing but I think a good long stick holding the snake's head down and then shoot for the head might work.

As far as the monitor, you might have to get a head shot there too.

Hard decision. A revolver with alternating bird shot and fmj might work. But I think I would carry a hicap 9MM.

For one time I am glad to live in Holland. The only snakes overhere are in the Zoo, Shop or safe kept in a collection of snakelovers.

My limited exposure to pythons in a pet shop and what I've seen at zoos makes me wonder if one can hold down the head of a big one with a stick. The effects from an Emerald Tree Boa bite on a man's hand was pretty scary. And it was only about five feet long. The grown Burmese python probably reaches at least 25 feet in large examples.

I did once write a fan fiction story in which a scientist and his girlfriend pushed off their canoe into a tributary of the Amazon, only to discover a lance-headed pit viper similar to the Fer-de-Lance was coiled in a pile of leaves under one seat in the canoe. Both wore revolvers, but were afraid that a bullet would pierce the bottom of the canoe. So he held down the head briefly with a paddle while she used a machete to behead the snake. (It was Bothrops asper, for any snake enthusiasts.)

Then, she stuck the head with the machete and flipped it overboard, followed by the body, assisted with the paddle. There was a bloody swirl in the water, and Prof. Challenger said, "Turtle. A big one."

It was a pretty good scene, I thought, and plausible. I realized later that native canoes usually don't have seats, but the snake could still have been hiding in a pile of leaves in the boat. Hey: it was a better scene than Hollywood would probably have managed with the same material, and more believable.

We now return you to the real world.

I wonder if a neck hit with a bullet or a cross body or shoulder shot on the monitor would work, ar least eventually, in the case of the body shots.

You wouldn't be able to hold him down long for sure. You'd have to be quick about it.

Yeah. And be careful not to get "wrapped up" in what you were doing! (Pythons are constrictors, after all.)

In the, "Lost World" fan fic, Challenger had enough trouble with that lance- headed viper, telling Finn to act quickly with her machete. He pointed out that snakes are quite muscular and hard to pin down, at least under those circumstances, and warned her to chop hard, to sever the head in a stroke or two. (She had by then exchanged her crossbow from the show for a .38, or I guess she could try the bow, although it, too, might have pierced the hull. But I'm by no means sure that the crossbow bolt would suffice in one shot. I saw a screencap of the bolt head and it was the same diameter as the shaft.)

I got to thinking about using a knife on a big snake, after seeing some lurid jungle comic books as a teen. I figured that if I had a knife with about a seven-inch blade, I could shove it up under a python's head and get the brain or spinal cord, no doubt saving a cute jungle princess in the process. (This was much more fun in class than really studying. I also managed to read Jim Corbett's tiger hunting books in study hall.)

Does anyone else recall those comic book and mens' magazine covers that so often featured a damsel in distress, menaced by natives, big cats, snakes, etc., with a Tarzan-like hero coming to the rescue? I guess they aren't PC these days. I haven't seen those in years.

P.S. Also in my youth, a bird flew in our back door, and was trying to evade the cat. I tried to herd it back out, using the blade of a G.W. Stone knife about like the Randall Model 1, if you know the style. I swiped at it, missed, and the blade flew through that bird like there was almost no resistance at all! It was cut right in two. But I think a snake or big lizard neck would be more muscular. But I do think that Finn's machete would suffice, although she used two whacks in my fic.

I mentioned Jim Corbett's true tiger hunting tales. In them, he mentioned being afraid of Indian pythons lying on the bottom of streams up near the foothills of the Himalayas. He was definitely afraid of them, and was charged by a king cobra at which he'd been throwing rocks. Fortunately, one rock connected solidly before the snake reached him.

The best way to kill a Nile monitor lizard: Throw it a small poodle to keep it occupied (and keep it's head still) -- then several shots to the head and shoulder with a Model 27.

I have eaten iguana but never tried Nile monitor -- could be gumbo material.

I speculated about that in another fic, noting that iguanas are largely vegetarian, while monitors are exclusively carnivores. I wonder if that affects the flavor of the meat. I realize that Australian aborigines eat Monitors, calling them "goannas".

What if you shot an elephant and used that meat in a Cajun stew? Would it be called Jumbo Gumbo?

Clearly, I need to take a break and get a haircut, which I was supposed to do yesterday.

I'll check in later. Keep the kettle boiling. I want a cup of tea when I return.

Well I know you wanted to keep it to handguns BUT

There are no handguns or caliber that would be useful for either animal.

Yes,I have seen a Nile Monitor but not a Python (in the wild) here.

For the snakes in the Glades you can not use a firearm to kill them anyway.

Another BUT, if you could, you are very unlikely to actually see one. The vegetation is so dense and the snakes can be in a trees, grass or underwater. If you do happen to see one, the chance of a pistol shot is nil. Folks do not realize how vast and diverse the Glades are, these snakes get so big, they eat alligators.
Folks in Louisiana will have a good idea.

For the Lizards, they are so fast that again, a handgun is useless. One was cornered in a persons garage, Fire Dept was called, big fearless kind of guys, Approached the garage and the Monitor decided to bolt, Firefighters all scrambled as the Lizard hauled butt and ran across the canal (yes, on top of the water) and was gone in the brush in seconds.

Your best bet is a SHOTGUN, preferably 12 gauge semi auto!

We now have evasive Lionfish in the Gulf and they eat anything and everything. Nothing eats them. Also have found the Asian Tiger Shrimp (Prawn)

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Still Running Against the Wind

Of course it would.
All the cajuns I know speak swahili.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

New Balance loaded with size 9 1/2 EEEE because I am running the other way.

25-5 4" .45 Colt with 255's at 1000fps.

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Go big or stay home

I'm going with the obvious, a Colt Python of course! If you would allow long guns, you could have a Colt Monitor for the lizards....

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Even older, even crankier....

We call it Creole but at night, when the drums begin to beat,
and the indigenous people are restless, and the faint sounds of rhythymic tribal singing carry into the camp while we are playing boure' and drinking the last of the good Scotch, why
yes, it does sound like Swahili. That must be how I ended up with two additional brides on my last trip to Mozambique.

Nope. Jus' sound like it Cher.

I'd pack a Hi-Power. That way even if I didn't have to shoot I'd still look like I knew what I was doing...

Back before they were protected my grandfather here in the Adirondacks would go and collect rattlesnakes for the $5 a head bounty, there is one place so populated with them that it was named Tongue Mountain. He would carry only his .22 Colt Woodsman and routinely dispatch them with that before tossing them in a burlap sack. While not a python, a rattlesnake is still no animal to trifle with but like some have already said, they don't have a very thick skull. I am not sure about the lizard, here in NY the only one's we get are from NYC or Jersey on the weekends, but I would probably carry my Model 27 with SWC or cast HP which has served me well so far.

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Vaya con Dios

Ungawadeux?

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Dum vivo cano

These are snakes and lizards are'nt they?
Anything that goes boom is gonna kill one with a head shot.
.12 gauge with #6's full choke.......
What was the question again ????


Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

We have an interpreter --

Ungawa oui?

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Dum vivo cano

Sil vous plait. Parlez vous "Simba est mon ami" -- because if "Simba est faim" -----------------------------------------------------------------------,
you better start running.

Really big snakes.... fast lizards.... think l'll just stay home and re-load something!

Hog

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

I think the Swahili you want is, "Chege (or whatever the gun bearer's name is), letti bunduki m'kubwa kwa mimi, pesi, pesi!"

If you want the light rifle instead of the big one, it's, "Letti bunduki kidogo."

When you want tea," Letti chai kwa bwana."

Or, for some of you guys, here's a useful phrase: "Letti ginni kwa Bwana." (Bring a gin for the Bwana.)

These phrases work well in the Nile Monitor's original habitat. But probably not in Cajun country.

My Swahili is via the glossary in one of Robert Ruark's books and various articles and books by other hunter-writers. I memorized some useful phrases in my teens, but never had the opportunity to hunt in Kenya before that country closed most hunting.

Aloha,

Sorry, but, I think I'll take a very sharp machate or short samurai type sword.

Don't have to worry about running out of ammo or making too much noise. Other than screaming like a girl.

You know, a spear like Sasha Siemel used on jaguars would make a lot of sense. Or, maybe the boar spears made in the recent past by Puma and Carl Schlieper in Solingen.

I've handled a Masai spear, but it didn't balance right for me. Excxuse me: I think the PC spelling is now Maasi.

Pythons, Nile Monitor lizards, Lion Fish, Asian Tiger Shrimp ....ya got them fish that walk around and eat dogs and stuff too I heard. Then there's the alligators.

It's not what pistol, but how many rounds.
I'll stay put. The snow keeps stuff like that to a minimum around here.

Man, i love this bar!!..er, forum....snakes n lizards n guns Toss in a fast scoot n a gal in a bikini, n ya sure got a heckava storyline..Mike

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45.acp-why shoot twice.

Here ya go. Shoot this sucker with a 22. This is staged so it's not like you are in a airboat in the swamp. Get a good head shot.

Plus as a added feature you get to watch Brook Burke in the ad


Python eats Alligator 02, Time Lapse Speed x6 - YouTube

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Still Running Against the Wind

You won't be left out of the fun for long -- with this being the warmest spring on record in the US, global warming and all,
you should have some migrant species up there by late July.

Lee E. Echols used a Colt Python to kill a 34 foot anaconda.
So I guess it would work on a monitor or a python too.
He shot it in the brain pan.

The story is told in Echols' book, "Hilarious High Jinks & Dangerous
Assignments."

I figure I'd have to use whatever gun I had on me at the time, so
most likely a 649 or M38.

I'd use the opposite ends of the spectrum ... a 629 and a 17, both with 8-3/8" barrels. The lengthy barrels make each extremely accurate, and I'd have different rounds to choose from depending on the circumstances. A HP .44 Mag or Special would sufficiently dispatch either critter, as would a well placed shot or two from the 17.

Personally speaking, I'm not too eager to test out either my 629 or 17 on those of the large reptile persuasion.

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I'm with the banned ...

THIS IS JUST AMAZING1 WATCH THIS VIDEO! YOU WON"T BELIEVE THIS UNTIL YOU SEE IT!


Thanks for the post. But the commercials rotate, so I didn't get to see Brooke Burke, just some less pretty gal in an Olay ad. Pity: but the alligator being swallowed made up for the lack of Brooke. Sort of...

I do know who she is, not to be confused with Brooke Burns, formerly on, "Baywatch Hawaii."

As for the claim in another post that Lee Echols shot a 34-foot Anaconda, that must be just about a record. But I saw something about a record Reticulated Python (Python reticulatus) being found in Indonesia (?) and the snake was about 50 feet long. I'd want to see some documentation on that one. Anything over about 35 feet raises my eyebrows a little.

BTW, the Ret. Python is a known man-eater, human bodies having been discovered when some were cut open.

Don't worry too much about the Pythons ... the Fireants will eat them. Now if you could just get the African Killer Bees to take out those pesky man-eating Monitors you'd be all set!

Actually, those killer bees share the range of the monitor in Africa, and they seem to co-exist peacefully. I guess the lizards don't go after honey or bee larvae, and they do have thick, scaled skins. The Honey Badger does raid beehives, of course. It's sort of the local version of a Wolverine.

Just so that we all know what we're talkinng about here, this is a Wiki link to info on the Nile Monitor. As you can see when you scroll down, the range extends across most of Africa, not just along the Nile.

Nile monitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Some individuals have a more greenish coloration in lieu of the more brown cast seen here. Some of the markings look more lacelike than on this one.

This is an aggressive species, NOT well suited to being kept as a pet. They do not normally attack people, but if they feel cornered, or a kid is present when one is hungry, watch out! The related, larger Komodo Dragon monitor is a known man-eater, though, and may pursue men to eat them. I also would not put it past the Crocodile Monitor of New Guinea to eat men.

If you are bitten by a monitor, see a doctor. The mucous in the mouth contains nasty bacteria likely to cause serious infection. I wouldn't be surprised if the claws might might also infect. Before penicillin, injuries like those and from big cats often caused deaths, even when the actual mauling might have been survived. Rotting meat remnants on the teeth and claws causes the infections, in addition to other pathogens in the saliva. But the lizards are not venomous.

There are only two venomous lizards known, both in Mexico and the SW USA. These are Gila Monster and the related Mexican Beaded Lizard. Our AZ members probably know to avoid them. I think they be legally protected, too.

After reading all this, I'm afraid to walk out the door. All we have are black bears, coyotes, and rattlesnakes, as far as stuff that's very dangerous. If there are wolverines left in Colorado, I'm unaware of it. We do have a great number of feral dogs in places.
Other than the bear, a .22 or .38 will suffice for all we have here.

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and what his trumpet saith

Nicky-

Bear in mind that it is not USUAL for monitor lizards or pythons to attack humans, other than perhaps small children. They definitely will attack and consume most pets, though. BTW, you left cougars off of your Colorado list of dangerous animals.

Men live alongside these animals in their native range, and hostile encounters are relatively rare. Unless you get between a Nile monitor and its route of escape or one is just in a nasty mood, you probably won't be attacked. I guess it goes wthout saying that it is foolish to try to catch one!

Should one get into a home, I would say that is a dangerous situation.

Africa also hosts the Savannah Monitor. Some of you may have seen the late Steve Irwin catch one on a trip to Kenya, where he did some exceptionally fooish things, like chasing a cobra and a green mamba in a tree!! As far as I know, the Savannah Monitor does not breed in the USA , although some idiot pet owner may occasionally release one here.

I've already seen some shifty looking species walking around the area...


FWIW, my Dad killed a large snake just after the War in the front yard of his then new home. Must have been someones pet Python or whatever snake they let go. It was stretched out (probably sunning itself I imagine) along side the block foundation of the house and scared the hell out of my Mother.
Pop's beat him to death with a garden hoe. Laid him out on the sidewalk to measure it. 3ft slabs,,didn't quite make it the full length of 3 slabs. So probably 8ft+.
I don't remember it at all. I asked him what he did with the snake. He said he chopped it up and threw it in the trash.
He don't like snakes either.

We have a few "beaded lizards" down here -- mostly they hang out in the bars in Baton Rouge and New Orleans, wearing Mardi Gras beads - thye probably carry disease also.

Not to be confused with cougars wearing beads -- we have quite a few of those also -- they seem to be extending their range and are off the endangered list.

Why not? I was of the impression that they are considered a pest or nuisance species and could be killed on sight. (Vague recollection from a TV show on Discovery or some such channel about people letting the darned things go...)

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NHI, 10-8.

Florida is ridiculous about some things. I applied for a license but was denied, you need "snake experience" qualification. When you find a python, you have to record the gps coordinates, club to kill it, (non firing weapon), cut open the stomach to identify the snakes diet, and take photos.

You cannot shoot alligators when hunting them at night only. Crazy!

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JIM
NRA Pistol Instr