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  #1  
Old 07-07-2012, 10:44 PM
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Would like some feed back on a Llama .380 caliber auto that I have an opportunity to acquire..The piece appears to be in good shape in appearance and function and the info that I've gotten so far ranges from "Good,,tough weapon" to "junk".. So,,I could use some info...Thanx in advance.. TIN..
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:37 PM
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I have one of the all steel autos "Llama Especial " in .22 LR. it is very similar to your .380 in size( only about a 1/16" difference in the slide width).it has been a fun gun to shoot, reliable,and shoots minute of soda can at 25 yards even with me shooting it.spare mags can be hard to find, that's the only downside I could find,besides,if you like it, go for it!
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:55 PM
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I've owned many of the Llama's (and Star autos) over the years.
In 380, 32 and 22. I really liked the .22cal 'Especials'. The 380 was popular choice in the 70's and 80's for a pocket carry in that caliber.
It can actually be a pretty accurate statement that the guns can run from "Good,,tough weapon" to "junk"..

Some were reliable,,,but some you couldn't get a magazine thru them w/o a failure of some sort.
Poor fitting of safety, mag release, disconnector,ect. Then others with absolutely no problems at all.

Look it over very carefully. If possible, shoot the pistol before purchase to get a better idea. You will quickly know what's up with it that way.

Most guns either have a good record, or a track record of particular faults from use.
These are hot and cold and no real way of telling just by looking at it.

llama is out of business now, so parts are where you can find them.
Many gunsmiths don't want to work on them because of re-occuring problems and lack of available parts.

just some thoughts...
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:13 AM
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I bought one in .380 about '70 or '71 (think I bought it new but can't remember). Looked to be well made but was unreliable and unsafe. Pretty much junk.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:17 AM
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Star and Llama were old Spanish manufacturers. Mostly they farmed work out to individuals and small groups, gathered the parts and then assembled them. This changed to normal factory work with time. Eventually they kept trying to build to the price required by their importers and the quality fell as did the two companies.
Star had some excellent ideas, execution was the problem.
Geoff
Who notes slim locked breach .380s came from Star long before anyone else. Garcia imported pistols, I suggest you avoid.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:12 AM
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How about, there are better choices out there
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:42 PM
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Thank you all for your input...Think I'll hold off and pass on this one....TIN..
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:04 AM
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This .32 one works fine and has for years. Kinda pimpy looking.

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Old 07-10-2012, 11:03 AM
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Kinda????

But, I like it

AFS
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:43 AM
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My two cents says put the money towards a Colt or Smith.

If you want a REALLY COOL .32 or .380 ACP look at a Colt 1903 or 1908 pocket Model. Got a bunch of them and they still work flawlessly. You'll almost feel like you're in a Bogart Movie

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Old 07-10-2012, 12:45 PM
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I'd pass, unless it is real cheap.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:04 PM
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Llama and Star were the early forerunners of the Taurus theory of manufacturing. Either make a very decent weapon at a fair price, or make a total piece of junk that will never be right. "Ya pays your money and takes your chances."
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:30 PM
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earlier ones were locked breech but they went to blowback ( Time frame of change?) I had one I bought new about 1983 or so. Soft enough that the slide lower rear was getting peened by the hammer during cycling. I stoned and radiused it and it appeared to stabilize. It was an iffy feeder with silvertips but I got one magazine to work reasonably. OK with hardball. I ended up selling it to a co-worker that thought he needed it.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:34 PM
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Thanx again to all , for the input... TIN..
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:08 PM
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With respect to Llama or Star pistols, it is really going to depend on the specific pistol. I own an alloy Star 9mm in a 1911-style frame that is very accurate and very reliable. I've had it since the early 1980's and it's one of my personal favorites!
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
If you want a REALLY COOL .32 or .380 ACP look at a Colt 1903 or 1908 pocket Model. Got a bunch of them and they still work flawlessly. You'll almost feel like you're in a Bogart Movie Chief38
Sorry, I can't wear a trench coat in FL. Well, not without getting arrested on suspicion.

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Old 07-23-2012, 09:06 PM
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I'm glad I found this thread, I was just about to start a new one. An acquaintance has inherited a .380 Llama from his father. It was in his father's desk drawer at this shop along with a .32 Safety Hammerless First Model about which I have a thread in the Antique forum.

The one he has is built on the 1911 pattern with a couple of changes. The major difference is that the barrel link isn't moveable and doesn't have a hole in it, it's part of the barrel. Other than that, it looks, functions, and strips like a 1911. At least the 1911 field stripping videos I saw on Youtube were very similar to what I actually ended up doing.

This one sat in a desk drawer after having some number of rounds fired through it. It's in dire need of cleaning and lubing, but otherwise seems OK.

The machining on the slide is a bit rough around the edges, literally.

He has no attachment to this and isn't in to guns at all, so he wants to sell it. I don't want it, even at a bargain price, but I told him I'd try to figure out what he should ask for it.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Here are the pictures.







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Old 07-23-2012, 11:00 PM
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Looks like a Llama Model III-A (sometimes called a Model 3-A). It may have had a slightly different factory model designation if the (nickel?) finish and engraved surfaces are factory.

The III-A was a blow-back operated pistol and didn't have the swinging bbl link. The bbl is secured to the frame with the slide stop lever.

They also made the same pistol in 380 with a locked breech like the Colt 1911 and it had a Model VI (Model 6),,Just slightly heavier too.

The Model III-A was made with an aluminum frame too, but I don't recall the Model designation assigned to it Perhaps XVI (16) or XIX (19).

A few Llama Model III-A pistols will be found marked 'Mugica/Eibar'
He (Jose Mugica) was a arms wholesale since the 20's or 30's and sold alot of Llama pistols all over the world with his name and a different model designation on them.
I don't know if one this late of manufacture would be marked and sold by Mugica.


There should be a series of 3 Spanish Gov't proof marks somewhere on the frame. One will tell you the year the pistol was proofed,,eccentially the year of manufacture.
The 'triad' of proofs as they call them are sometimes underneath the grip panels on the later pistols. They were usually easily seen stamped in the open on earlier ones.
It looks like they may be stamped on the frame just above the trigger on the left side.
Here's a link to the proof codes and some info.
They are the same for all Spanish mfg semi auto pistols since 1927.

Star Firearms Production Dates By Year Code

It looks like a very clean, hardly used pistol. As to value,,check GunBroker, Auction Arms, ect completed auctions for pistols of the same description and condition to get an idea of what they sell for.

I usually disregard the extremely high and low sales prices.
Bidding war pricess and once in a while extreme deals I take out of the picture to better get an idea of market value.

I'd personally guess that it would sell for around $300,,+/-.

Last edited by 2152hq; 07-23-2012 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
Looks like a Llama Model III-A (sometimes called a Model 3-A). It may have had a slightly different factory model designation if the (nickel?) finish and engraved surfaces are factory.
Thank you. The knowledge of members of this forum continues to amaze me.

This has no model number on it other than "LLAMA CAL 380" on the left side directly in front of the take down lever. The proof marks are under that and there are four of them. None are letters, one appears to be a box with something on top of it and an X inside, then a 7, then an open dot, and then a 1.

There is also what I take to be a proof mark on the right side of the slide, just below and behind the rear sight. This matches the last proof mark on the frame and looks like a diamond engagement ring for lack of a better description. Could this be a Stoeger acceptance proof mark?

Update: It's not an engagement ring, it's a bomb with a lit fuse. Which is supposed to have a number inside saying what year it was proofed, but neither do. These are supposed to have a letter P inside indicating that they were proofed, but don't. From doing a bit more research, this looks like a III-A, made in the late 1970s. If I read the proof mark right, it was proofed in 1980. I have to keep editing this as I finally start to get some idea of what I'm seeing. What I thought was a 7 is a poorly stamped Z. Which makes the date code for proofing 1980.

Serial number is located on the right side, 8895xx. It's also marked Stoeger Industries, Hackensack NJ, Made in Spain on the frame above the serial number. Below the serial number is the letter "J".
From the link you included, the "J" date would indicate it was made in 1937. Does that seem possible? It seems unlikely to me as that was during the Spanish Civil War, but I don't know if that has any bearing on the subject.

Quote:
I'd personally guess that it would sell for around $300,,+/-.
This seems about the right ball park.

Last edited by GaryS; 07-24-2012 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:08 PM
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I had one of the earlier models of the miniature 1911 type Llama 380 autos. I was a terrific little pistol, I shot the hell out of it and carried it for years whenever carrying concealed. The guy I got it from had worked for a hydraulic cylinder business and they were doing hard chroming early on. He had the thing hard chromed and to test it threw it on the roof of one of his outbuilding and let it set from early fall until late spring. Didn't have a speck of rust anywhere, looked just like it did when he threw it up there...
If you can get past the fact that they are built in South America you will never have any problems with them, at least from my experience...totally reliable little pistol.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
If you can get past the fact that they are built in South America you will never have any problems with them, at least from my experience...totally reliable little pistol.
Llama handguns were made in Spain...or so I thought.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked View Post
Llama handguns were made in Spain...or so I thought.
This one was. It has Spanish proof marks on it and says "Made In Spain" on the frame.

I field stripped it, and cleaned and lubed it. It cleaned up nice and the action is smoother with a bit of lube on the slide. (duh) I think the owner should get a few hundred out of it when he sells it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:12 PM
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Here is my type II Llama 380 made in 1949 and I consider this a very well made Spanish pistol. It very much looks like a 1911. I'm very happy with the quality and how it functions!
My thoughts,
Joe
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:12 PM
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Llama was the brand name of a line of semi-auto handguns started into production in 1931. They were made by Gabilondo & Son of Spain.
I believe the factory post war operations were in Vitorio, Spain.

War-time and prewar era factory at Eibar and other out-factorys.
They added revolvers to the line in the mid 1950's.
The company itself had been in business since before WW1.

Bankrupt & folded for the final time in the early 2000's.

>added
1980 would sound about right for the mfg/proof date from the looks of the gun. Stoegers was still the US importer of Llama at that time.
In 1994 a company called 'SGS Importers International, Inc.' took over the Llama line as far as importation into the USA.
They were also in NJ, but I don't recall what city.

Last edited by 2152hq; 07-25-2012 at 10:18 PM. Reason: add-info
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:57 PM
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I sure like mine. I boughtg it for a friend in 1958, and then bought it from his estate a few years ago. Very well made and reliable. I've had several others and liked them all, even one of the later blowback ones. which had a lot more recoil than the locked breech version. Only trouble I had was one broken extractor and an alloy framed model that had the breech of the barrel peening the aluminum frame as it dropped down in recoil, after several hundred rounds.
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:11 AM
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I know this is an old thread but I just purchased a Llama IIIa IV. Doing some searching and found some old threads about part interchangeability regarding the full size 1911 model. Any info available regarding parts interchangeability for the IIIa would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:43 AM
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You'll do better starting a new thread.

I only read through this old one because I have a Llama 380.
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Old 03-12-2015, 03:16 AM
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Will do thanks!
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:17 PM
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I have one of the older 380 Llama's built along the lines of a scaled down Colt 45auto. It has always been a reliable pistol for me.
Jim
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:44 AM
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Rebirth of the Llama thread needs another picture.

9mm Llama. I bought this one from a friend a few years ago...great pistol. He started missing it and asked if there was anyway he could get it back. He now has it once again and I moved on.

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Old 03-20-2015, 10:10 AM
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I came across a Llama "mini 1911" in 380 several years ago.Problems with magazine release I corrected with an old spring lying in a drawer,and a poorly functioning safety I corrected in a few minutes with some file work.It shoots reliably and is more accurate than most of my pocket pistols,much more so than my S&W 442.
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:27 AM
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I have one of the older Llama "Especial" .380s that is like a mini-1911, swinging link, recoil operation and all. It has been an accurate and reliable pistol for over the forty years I have had it.

They did change to simple blowback operation sometime in the late Seventies, I believe. I don't know how those are, but mine has been servicable.
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked View Post
This .32 one works fine and has for years. Kinda pimpy looking.

I like it! I had the plain blued version in .32 back in the seventies...looked just like a 1911. Can't even remember what I did with it...traded or sold it, I guess.
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