What's the big deal? I've shot a couple, and yeah they seem nice, but what makes it such a big deal? What makes a 1911 any different than any other semi auto pistol?

The big deal? Well... try to find another semi-automatic pistol currently being produced that was designed at the turn of the last century... that still sets the standard against which all other combat pistols of major caliber are compared... that is now produced by more manufacturers today than at any point in history... that is offered in so many multiple calibers... that is as well supported with after-market parts/service... that is the preeminent pistol for just about every pistol competition currently conducted... and there's probably more that can be said. But this is a start.

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<><

If imitation is the highest form of flattery then John Moses Browning nailed this design over one hundred years ago.

A whole bunch of manufacturers make copies of the 1911 including Smith & Wesson.

The amount of aftermarket parts and accessories available for the 1911 is incredible.


Until we get laser beams the 1911 will continue to be number one.



brucev nailed this one right down.

Bruce

A 1911 is true classic, one that combines elegance and battle-proven functionality. It is a pistol than can be as simple and basic, or as customized and dressed up, as the owner desires. A properly tuned 1911 is the sweetest shooting pistol around, and no other pistol can be adjusted to the individual owner as can a 1911. It has served America for 100 years, and is as uniquely American as is apple pie. If God carried a gun, it would be a 1911 (in .45 ACP of course.)

Other than that....nothing much.

There are lots of choices in semi-auto pistols out there... but few have been around nearly as long as the 1911. And most modern pistols are based, in some way, on the concepts originated by John Moses Browning.

As an example, the Glock is a mere child in comparison (the Glock that started that firearm revolution was manufactured, if I recall correctly, in the early 1980's).

While it may not be the ultimate pistol (to some), it has been around a whole lot longer than most other pistols... and will likely continue to be around long after many other pistols become footnotes in firearms history.

Brucev, well said sir in spades. This topic has popped up in two other boards that I frequent. I believe that the dividing line is when a younger shooter hits about 45. Prior to that glocks and other pistols of that ilk are what they live by. By the time they hit 45 they come to realize that there is something different out there. And it ain't sex. Its the 1911 platform that has been around for over 100 years. Its almost when a person has found religion. I knew a good dentist who only shot the 92fs at steel plate matches, he did this for years. Then one day he shows up with two 45's. I said to him "found a new religion have we" big smile on his face. Frank

It comes when you learn to shoot it accurately.

The "special" aspects are finally appreciated when one gets to the point where he learns what works more often than not, what doesn't, and what design features are the result of clear common sense instead of fads or experimental theoretical ideas.

The same reasons pre-lock S&W revolvers continue to hang on after the Tupperware crowd has deemed them anachronisms . . . .

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Qui plantavit curabit

The 1911 was the service pistol of the US armed forces for about 80 years untill replaced by the Beretta M9 about 20 years ago. Immediately the debate began as to whether the M9 was an improvement. Special forces still use the 1911 to this day and the Marine Corps recently ordered 22,000 1911's from Colt. I have three of them, and when I look at them in the gun store I get the feeling that I need another one.

The 1911 doesn't have many faults and if you are aware of them it is a really fine pistol. IMO, it is rather expensive to produce and if you carry one for defense with hollowpoint ammo, it is advisable to shoot a few hundred rounds to verify proper operation.

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Luke 22:36

My personal best was when I shot 10 bullets into a bullseye at 50 yards with a 1911 during a national match competition standing one armed postion slow fire. The size of the bullseye was about 3 inches.
I cannot do the same with my Berretta.

It's history, look, accuracy, size, variations,... etc.

What's not to like about the 1911? It's just a great pistol!

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Jorge

Not a BIG deal, just a lot of small-to-medium-size issues. First and foremost, IMO, is the size and shape. It probably fits more hands than most guns. It is also slim and easy to carry IWB, and the safety is in the right place. A close second is the ease of detail disassembly - I think that for this, it may be THE easiest pistol around. It's also not too bad on field-stripping. It doesn't hurt that the cartridge it uses is .45 caliber. It has also been pretty well tested for working in a bad environment. IMO, its only problem is that it has to be competently modified if one wants to use funny-shaped bullets. However, starting in the eighties, Colt sold guns competently designed to handle such ammo, and I'm pretty sure that other manufacturers did, too.

Some people (including me) don't like them without a firing pin safety, but Colt makes one that works, and I think some others do, too. A gun that isn't an old beat-to-**** parts gun is probably safe without one.

The main problem with the 1911 is that it has been so popular for so long that there are many drop-in modifications available for it, not all of them beneficial, and not all of them truly drop-in. It can certainly stand improvement in sights, with the possible exception of later Colt and some other products, but anything else calls for a bit of research and thinking, and perhaps a competent gunsmith who knows what the pistol is intended for.

Although there are plenty of 1911s out there that have problems, ones that haven't been improperly modified are still one of the best handguns around.

Slimdelight, the 1911 is so special that nearly all the police and armies of the world carry it, including the special commando and special forces of those armies. And you won't find any clandestine agencies that don't carry it almost exclusively.

Oh, wait, is that true?

Must be since most U.S. gun magazines feature at least one article a month on the 1911.

I'm in what I call 'my revolver phase' right now. I've already gone through my '22lr target pistol and rifle phase', my '9mm phase', my '12 gauge shotgun-clays phase', and a couple others.

I guess I'm working up to my 1911 phase.

One thing that has put me off of 1911's, and you see it in this thread and other current 1911 threads (see the ruger one): it appears that buying the gun is just the start - and then you have to dump cash into fixing the design flaws - sights, trigger, barrel, etc. Personally, I don't buy guns that need work, I don't work on them myself, nor do I take guns to a gunsmith to have them modified. Call me a simpleton, but I just buy guns and shoot them. If I don't like them, I sell them and buy something I like better. I'm not sure I've ever read a 1911 thread where somebody said; "...I bought such-n-such 1911 and just shot it and it was great...".

Really, who wants to buy a new gun that needs work right out of the box? Did any of those armies, special forces, etc just buy such-n-such brand 1911 and deploy them? Or did they have to put $1,600 worth of work into each one of those $800 guns to get something they would use? Compare that to the out-of-the-box S&W 10's, 64's, 686's, 28's etc that were deployed out-of-the-box by the MILLIONS for what, a hundred years or so?

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But then, what do I know?

That was more of a problem years ago.Most of the guns being built now are just fine out of the box.

A perfect example of the "big deal" for me is my range session yesterday.

I practiced with an HK with LEM trigger, an FN FNX, and a Colt 1911 XSE stainless.

I am having issues with weak side performance. Namely, I've lately been pushing the muzzle to the right, throwing my shots to the right of my intended impact point.

I played around with grip, a lot of dry firing, etc. and figured out my problem was trigger control. I was not pressing my trigger aft, but I was slightly pushing the trigger to the right as I did my trigger press throwing the shots off to the right. (I'm right-handed, so this is left-handed shooting).

With several hundred rounds of .22, and two boxes of .40's I got my trigger control, er, under control. It took a lot of focus to make sure I was pressing the trigger back without any side pressure. This took about two hours and cost about $90 bucks.

Oh, the 1911? Weak side I shot exactly to point of aim in one ragged hole. No problems.

The difference, and the "big deal" is that the 1911 has the best trigger of any auto-pistol, period. The 1911 trigger presses straight to the rear, as your trigger finger should for accurate shot placement. With other designs, the triggers pivot at the top, and feel heavy and clunky compared to the 1911's trigger.

Also, the ergonomics of the 1911 make it extremely easy to shoot despite the "heavy" .45 auto caliber.

The 1911 is easy to carry as well, as it is very slim.

In a nutshell: Awesome trigger, easy to shoot.

edit:
M3Stuart brought up a good point. However there are plenty of manufacturers that make great shooting 1911's right out of the box. Thanks to increased competition in the industry, more CNC machines being available, and other market forces, this stereotype of 1911's being unreliable out of the box is fast becoming obsolete. There still are some 1911 makers who produce shoddy pistols! This is a high-demand item that attracts a lot of competition. But, an informed shooter should have no problem finding a reliable and fun 1911 at a good price.

I can't see that there's anything wrong with the "out of the box" 1911, since it seems like everyone who makes them is coming out with a "1911A1" G.I. look alike.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

first, its an honest piece of hardware made of steel and wood like a proper arms should be. not necessarily uncommon in concept.
second is the world ... no ... universe of after market parts for them. its one of the few guns where you have the ability to upgrade any and all of its less than finer points as you see fit.
parts support also leads into a third point .. barrels. with a little fitting work, one can look at the 1911 as a sort of auto loading TC Contender. It is possible for a 1911 to be a multi caliber gun 22 LR conversion might be a start, follow that up with 400 corbon, 38 super, 10mm, 38 clerk, 40 S&W, 357 sig and probably others I haven't seen yet and add them all along side 45 auto. No other pistol can be expanded so far as this.
fourth ... reliability. Say what they will about the Glock and its legacy, the 1911 did it first and still does.
fifth .. so ya broke it ... see again .. its universe of parts. Odds are, your local shop has a replacement for what you broke in the back room.
sixth ... its an honest steel gun .. when you run it dry before the fight is over, it hurts worse than tupperware as a bludgeoning instrument

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it just needs more voltage

They point good, carry well, they are made of metal, and they work. Lots of things have been written about them over the years, but the truth is they are just plain a good gun.

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Even older, even crankier....

This is about like asking why someone would be interested in a pretty girl, isn't it?

I don't know where to start, and Brucev gave a pretty matter-of-fact answer, so I will just not bother to try.

OK, you asked for it, you got it: I bought a Colt MkIV Series 70 new in 1972, and it shot just fine, never a problem, didn't modify it one whit, and it kept shooting accurately and reliably until it was stolen about 15 years ago. It's probably still doing so for whoever has it now.

I bought a new Springfield Armory Champion (their Combat Commander Clone) new in 2000 (one of the first "Loaded" models) that I just shoot, never any problems, good accuracy, completely reliable. It was my primary carry gun for about 10 years, still shoot it frequently. No mods (well, I did install some custom grips a few years ago), no maintenance problems, no repairs.

I have an original 1911 built by Springfield in 1914 during the first production run of license-built guns for the military, of course marked U.S. Property, which is all original, and which shoots reliably and reasonably accurately (groups are only slightly larger than some of my current 1911s, but it was built to combat service tolerances, and has had 99 years of service and wear). Again, no maintenance other than cleaning, and it keeps on rocking and rolling.

I bought a Springfield Range Officer earlier this year. Great gun, it has been flawless in its operation, no problems. Very close tolerances and fit throughout, yet no operational problems, even during break-in. I broke in the barrel just as I would a new rifle, and it is an absolute tack driver. No modifications necessary.

I bought a Colt Lightweight Government a year or two ago, and have done no modifications to it. I did send it back to the factory under warranty, as the original magazines and the slide stop did not agree with each other, and failed to hold the slide open after only a very few rounds. This did not happen with any other magazines. Colt replaced both the slide stop and the magazines, no problem since. When I sent it in, I asked that they do a factory trigger job, as it is rather rough (not typical or acceptable), for which I would pay. Unfortunately, the "technician" it was assigned to misunderstood the work order, and did not do the trigger job. I am currently debating whether to send it back or just live with it, but I am a major trigger freak. Again, no mods, and, if it weren't for the (to me) poor trigger on this particular gun, I would have absolutely no complaints. It is an excellent gun, a full-size 1911, but weighs less than a steel frame commander, and is a perfect carry gun - the slim design just makes it disappear in any IWB holster. Oh yes, I did the barrel break-in when I first got it, and it is also extremely accurate. It has been my primary carry gun since purchase, supplanting the Champion.

Several others currently on hand include a Colt Officer's ACP, again, never a problem, no failures, very accurate, and gladly eats anything I feed it, including hollow points and 200 grain LSWC reloads. I've also owned a plethora of Colt 1911s, including Commanders, Combat Commanders and Government models, never any problems, and I never modified any of them.

Oh yeah, one more - I purchased a Browning 1911-22 last week. What a neat little gun! This diminutive 1911 only has a couple hundred rounds through it to date (including my ritual barrel break-in sequence), but it has fed, fired and ejected every type of .22LR ammo I have fed it flawlessly, and it is surprisingly accurate. I typically shoot handguns at 50-75 yards, or further, and it holds its own quite well out there, with good groups. The other day, I took it out shooting and, after using it on targets at those distances, I went looking for "targets of opportunity" on the way out to pick up my targets. At distances of 10-35 feet, that little gun is amazingly accurate, even with point shooting. I was obliterating empty shotgun shells, bits of broken clay targets, empty 22 casings, etc. In fact, it is so accurate in that role, I think it is going to be my "go-to" gun for walks in potential snake-infested areas, as head shots on rattlers will be almost automatic with it. Yes, it really is a 1911, just scaled down.

Frankly, I think the reason you rarely read a thread on 1911s that doesn't talk about modifying them is due to the "in" trend of doing stuff to guns, just like is popular with the AR-15 and its derivatives. Just like cars, stock works well (if you buy a quality car or gun), modifying them gives the owner a sense of pleasure, accomplishment, ego boost, or whatever, but has nothing to do with the basic utility of the car (or gun). Remember, when somebody spends $1,000 modifying a gun (because he wants to), it must be justified. I don't believe I will be unsafe with a 1911 that didn't come out of Brown's shop, or cost less than $2,500, just because somebody said so on the internet. It is the most proven and "experienced" semi-auto design available, and it is still going strong - must be some reason for that. Oh yeah, I carried 1911s in combat, and they are quite effective in that use.

My very first 1911 have had it for 1 mos. 165 rnds. Dan Wesson CCO .45 Auto.
Target was shot my second outing with the pistol using Blazer 230gr. FMJ Brass 7 rnds. @15 yds.
Not changing a damn thing about this pistol. Perfect.

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It isn't fixing design flaws, it's "tinkering" to get the gun just like you want it.

In 2003, I bought a Honda VTX 1300...and since then, I have spent almost as much as the bike cost on accessories and modifications. Did I need to? No, not at all. Why do it then? Because they make the bike more enjoyable for me, because it is now set up just like I want it, and with lots of extra chrome, aftermarket pipes, etc. it is uniquely mine.

A 1911 has as many design flaws as Raquel Welch.

For me it's a personal thing, it's the first handgun I ever shot and I carried one for a year in the military. I purchased a Colt Mk.IV Series 70 .45acp after I got out of the service and started working for a living.
I taught my son how to shoot it and he loves it. He says he likes the way it makes his hand feel after firing seven quick shots.
So, to each his own, but the 1911 is a great pistol and has a history that make you proud to be an American.

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"Life is short, hunt hard"

Man are you old.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

The 1911 is one of those things were you either "get it" or you don't.
If you don't, that's your loss.

I think the name should give it away...1911

DVD's my man.

As the Most Famous Man in the World would say.

"I don't often shoot 1911's, but when I do it is a Kimber"

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Still Running Against the Wind

I always hear the Glock or 1911 thing. 1911's are great guns. I own and have owned many of them. For the most part it has been my experience that 1911's while beautiful works of art neet lots of work to reliably shoot most ammo. There are exceptions to this of course however, you are going to pay good money for that exception. Their are more gun companies making 1911's than you can shake a stick at. Glocks, Swocks and the like however are much cheaper to buy and are generally considered to be highly reliable. Not to mention the fact that magazine capacity is much higher than the 7 or 8 you get with a 1911. I for one think that an 8 round mag in a 1911 is blasphemy but, thats me. I love 1911's my "Crown Jewel" is a 1911. That being said I put a Glock 22 in my holster every single day.

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Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum...

I don't rightly think I can say...




Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Well shoot,I only have half a dozen.

Always the master of understatement Mr. Keith.....

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Even older, even crankier....

SEE! That right there is an infestation. They prolly got Ol' Dave cornered by now!

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

I cannot really add much to whats already been said, but if you want sensory overload ask the same question about the Browning Hi Power. It seems John Browning not only designed these guns and many others he also figured out how to add "soul" to the mix.

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Stay safe people!

the soul part of em isnt hard to figure out really.
in that era these guns were likely viewed as gimmicks and contraptions with a high probability of breakage if they worked at all .. the soul part of the equation is that these contraptions DID work, and kept on working without breaking to the utter shock of everyone.

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it just needs more voltage

What makes champagne any different from a box of Boone's Farm?

What makes a Buck knife any different from a shopping network Ginsue?

What makes a Cadillac any different from a mini Cooper?

What makes a Remington shotgun the one every one else claims to be just as good as?

What makes the 30-06 the cartridge a 308 is "just as good as"?

I dunno, if you can't tell then get what ya want but I doubt you can't hold your breath until the day I say "My Gold Cup is just as good as a glock."

It reeks of "Badassness", that's why.

I have never heard it put quite that way.

(I hope that doesn't end up costing you style points. )

"old " is relative, labworm....NONE, I repeat, NONE of the bubblegum heart throbs of today are even in the same galaxy....IMHO.....

That's a compulsive, hoarding. serious disorder. They only one worse is She who will not be named that used to frequent this fine establishment.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Yeah, where'd the princess of the 1911s get off to any-hows?




Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

To paraphrase an old saying"if you know why, no explanation nesssary, if you don't know why, no explanation will do".

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Danny A.

I dont know, I just found this old thing laying about...

Two I keep handy....

Marilyn and Raquel are the standards others only wish to be compared. Old? How about "classic"..."untouchable"..."best ever"...

if you have an immediate threat you need to eliminate...I don't think that any other commercial handgun can do it as quickly and effortlessly...the single action crisp, light, short traveling trigger allows you do dump 8 rounds of a 230 grain bullet into one or more targets with remarkable speed....the heft & balance of the gun allows you to easily stay on target...and the .45 round helps ensure that what you hit will go down & stay down...

this is what the .45 was made to do and it still does this better than just about any other handgun on the planet....

why do you think the Marines just ordered a bunch...after 100 years in production!!

oh, and it's one of the slimmest fullsize pistols out there...what's not to love...

it was the first handgun I trained with... (Spring of 1983 at Ft. McClellen MP School)...

"Badassness." You should pattent that. I'd buy that belt buckle. I'm sure someone would have to test it.
The 1911 is the first handgun I ever shot. Since then, I've played around with quite a few others. Some were pretty cool, others just alright. Now a 1911 is the only handgun I want. Well, I'm gonna get a j frame in case I need something small and cool.
Long live the 1911, as if there were any threat it was going somewhere.

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Hold on. SWAT's at my door.