I decided to get out my old Winchester 10 gauge signal canon and refurbish it for the up coming sail boat racing season, as well as for holidays. Despite all of my efforts on the internet, I cannot find a single supplier who has any of the ammo in stock. It fires a 10 gauge blank black powder shotgun shell, 2 7/8" length. I know that they are up to about 2 bucks a round, but I can't find any. Anyone here have any idea where to look? I don't reload shotgun shells or black powder. Maybe I should!

medxam

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Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

I was looking at a Winchester cannon a few months ago and at that time blanks were available. But they sure are not now. Track of the Wolf has brass shells available and from there it should be pretty simple to load.
Reloading - How to Reload 10 Gauge Brass Shotgun Shells - YouTube

Dang! Klondike beat me to it , but here's what I've got on it...


This is a useable tutorial that will give you some idea how to go about fixing up some blanks. I have made these up in 12 gauge paper hulls in the past using newspaper as wadding.

Brass Shot Shell, 10 gauge, 2-7/8", new production, marked PARKER BRO'S, MERIDEN, CT. use large pistol primer, each - Track of the Wolf

Another way would be to get hold of some loaded 10 gauge shells, cut the end off to remove the shot, wad and smokeless powder. Recharge with some black powder, tamp down with the old wad + some newspaper to get it tight and go with that. The shells can be reused with shotgun primers as per the priming method described in the link.

Black powder is easy to ignite, so a lot of pressure seating any wadding you decide to use is not necessary, nor is a lot of powder needed.

Doc,
I have been reloading mine for years now, and it is quite easy. If you do not have a shot shell reloader you could still do it by hand.
In a pinch you could get some regular 10 gauge shells and dump out the shot and powder ,then add some goex ffg or pyrodex rs.
I dont remember how much but you can figure out . Just start small and work up. I use wads from blue & grey and pour melted wax on top instead of a crimp.
My shells are very old and have splits in them, but I keep on using them and they work well. I am going to look into those brass ones, I didn`t know 10 g was available.

here`s some pix

Attached Images

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	Agan`s & Steryo 05-06 047.JPG (192.5 KB, 278 views)

10 gauge blanks use an 8 dram (1/2 oz.) charge of FFg.

A dram is 1/16 ounce, or 27.34375 grains.
A half-ounce is 218.75 grains.


But try finding 218.75 on a BP measure. Use 220.


ETA: This load is NOT intended for use with a projectile!

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Where do we go from here?

Buy a handful of the all-brass 10ga empty cases from one of the places like Track of the Wolf or Dixie.
They are not cheap, but the cases if handled carefully will literally last forever, especially with blank loads.
5 or 6 would be plenty in my opinion as they can reloaded quickly with simple homemade tools right on scene if needed.

You can use commercial 10ga hunting round cases, but everything around will be plastic now.
Loading plastic shotshell cases w/black powder makes for real mess in most instances as the high ignition/burn temp of the BP melts the plastic walls of the case (and plastic wads if you use them also).

It leaves the melted plastic streaked and stuck to the walls of the bore of the shotgun,,cannon in this case.
Plus it will make the cases themselves usable for one or maybe two reloadings depending on mfg'r. Some are worse than others.

I have found that in 12ga, the cheap Remington black cased 'Gun Club' cases do not melt and are usable but only for one loading as they are crispy burnt on the inner walls afterwards. But they do work. No melted plastic from the case inside the bore. They are the only one I've found.
I have no experience w/10ga plastics in BP.

Cut the brass cases to the length you need, or most likely you can order them that way.

Load with a light charge of FG, or FFG black powder for a blank.
You need very little powder to make a big noise.
Even a lowly one or two dram load will produce a loud report.

Standard #209 primers are used generally but make sure any cases you buy so state and that they are not 'berdan' primed.
Berdan primers are hard to find and not easy to work with for the occasional reloader.

Some modern all brass cases take a standard Large Rifle or Large Pistol primer and will so state.

Commercial over powder wads (hard cardboard) are available in the right diameter to compress and hold the powder in place.
Or common newspaper will do for blank cartridges.
Sometimes the newspaper will shred a bit upon firing and bits of it will burn so be mindful of that.

Don't attempt to make any blanks w/ smokeless powder.
Black powder can be hard to find off the shelf in most places but some searching will usually find you some.
The BP substitutes are used for blank cartridges two (many think that is the ONLY thing they are good for!).


Have fun!

OK, you guys have gone about it in a different way than I've managed. I've got one of the Winchester cannons. I've even got the case (that says "one breech loading cannon" on the side. Winchester makes the blanks and you can order them through any decent sized retailer that has an account. Not cheap, but I don't recall them being that expensive. As I recall, I had to make my own for a few years. Then I managed to buy 2 boxes of the real thing. I worked my way along firing a few a year. Then one day I stumbled on a gun shop that would order 2 more boxes for me. Yes, I had to pay in advance. Not a biggie. I haven't started on those..yet.

I've got one of the Napolean III or whatever the Dixie Gun works kits were from the 1970s. I put it together and it was a pain. We were cutting wads from cardboard with a scissors and a buddy who liked blowing things up sat down with us. He asked what the problem was and I explained that it had an oddball bore size. He asked what it should be, so I said 12 gauge. He said when we're done, loan him the barrel for a day. It came back nice and smooth, 12 gauge. That was the day muzzle loading became sweet. we also drilled the fuse hole a little bigger for easier insertion. Loading is easy now. Just stick a fuse in, dump 3 or so caps of 4f black down the bore and follow with a plastic power piston or other brand poly wad. Tamp it down as hard as you dare. From a little loading experience, you learn. Then almost every shot gives you a smoke ring. The sign of a good charge. Its often louder than a 10 ga.

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Dick Burg

I think I know the one you're talking about. .69 caliber originally?

You had me up until you said "4F."

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Where do we go from here?

That one is so cool

RBG Cannons shows blanks in stock.

10 Ga. blanks also show up at gun shows from time to time. Which cannon do you have? Mine's the first variation with the pencil barrel.

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"I also cook."

I'm not shooting anything but a plastic piston. If I were loading any kind of shot charge, or a big chunk of lead, it would be dangerous. I got to that by trial and error. Took an old white sheet (don't use one your wife will ever see again.) Using coarse powder you almost always find some unburned out on the sheet (out in front of the cannon.) When you use fff or ffff you never see much "solid waste".

Remember I'm shooting blanks! I can't find blank powder so I selected the closest thing I could get. Those well off to the side and consuming adult beverages are a good jury. They can hear the difference. I've never weighed a power piston, but its insignificant.

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Dick Burg

No problem, if it works for you . . .

I've just had a distrust of 4F as anything but a loose primer beaten into me by my elders(?) in the artillery forums.

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Where do we go from here?

The good news - it is easy to find suppliers of this ammo by doing an internet search on the code "XBP10"

The bad news - it looks like everybody is "out of stock"

few years ago my neighbor ask if i could use a box of old reloading stuff. told him guess so . it is probally over 100 years old. most for 10 gage about 45 all brass hulls. winchester no.10 umc club and wra rival all 10 gageand all kind of reloading things dont know what they were

I checked out the supply of 10 gauge blanks on the internet just a few days ago. Plenty to be had at around $48.00 per box of 25 plus shipping. I was lucky to have bought a couple of boxes years ago at a much better price. So I went into my ammo storage and found the box and 4/5's I had squirreled away years ago. Some fun on the 4th. Ammo prices really are just crazy these days.

If you go with the all brass cases, after shooting them and before the day is over, knock out the primer and soak them in windshild washer fluid. If you use water they will be stained black. After soaking over night, rinse with water and use a small bottle or bore brush and scrub inside and out. Clean primer pocket and air dry. Ready to reload when dry!

I have had 45-70 cases that were stained from black powder and dropped in water I could never get them clean. I put about 40 in a Thumblers Tumbler with the wet stainless steel pins, Lema-shine, dish soap, and hot water for about 3 hours. They came out looking like new.

Ivan