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  #1  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:25 AM
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Default Remington R-51

Some are already calling this the 3913 Killer, haha I didn't know that anyone off this site was still interested in the 3913. Feel free to check it out, what are your thoughts?

Remington Announces New R-51 Pistol - The Firearm Blog

3913 killer thread:
New Remington R51 - 3913 killer? - THR
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:42 AM
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Holy Catfish, Batman! If it's anywhere near as good as the old Model 51 in ergnomics and low recoil, then I'll have to have several.

The .380 Model 51 is absolutely my favorite small auto to date. It points so well it doesn't really need the teeny sights it's got. Very flat. And it was a pioneer of magazine safety having pistols, but it is easily deactivated. Well, "easy" is a relative term...It seems Remington did not add the manual safety this time, which Pederson thought unnecessary and only added at the behest of the mfg. (All it did was block the grip safety, which seems humorous somehow.)

ETA: Speaking of pocket autos, I've going to pick up the S&W .35 caliber pistol on layaway, whilst seeing if the LGS can get me a new Remington.

Heading that way, right now!

Last edited by jaymoore; 01-03-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:53 AM
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Unlike the original Model 51, this one will be rated for 9mm+P. Looks like Remington is getting in the race with S&W (Shield), Beretta (Nano), Walther (PPS), Kimber (Solo), etc.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:55 AM
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I think the market is desperately wanting a single stack 9 or 40 the size of this and the LC9/Shield, with no safety. I think most were hoping the G42 was going to be that answer and it's now looking like that is not going to happen. I'm very excited by this, I never messed with the old Model 51, but I have heard good things about it. I'm debating one for a early b'day present to myself!
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:04 AM
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It would have to be pretty darn good to replace my 3913, but as of right now, I have every intention of trying one out. There is supposed to be a threaded barrel version coming too. With the fixed barrel it would make a great suppressor host.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:03 AM
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I like the fact that they used an aluminum frame over polymer. It looks like a Remington Model 51 and an AJ Ordnance "Thomas" pistol married and had a child.

Even though the rear sight looks like it is reversed, I'm still very interested in trying one out.

Last edited by koz5614; 01-03-2014 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:07 AM
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It's my understanding the rear sight is the way it is to facilitate one handed racking of the slide for those that consider that important. This by snagging it on something.

The serrations on the left side of the frame may be for your support hand thumb. I could be wrong about all of the above, but if not, it appears someone put some thought into this pistol.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:34 AM
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Very interesting pistol. If it shoots well I will probably have one.

Sub $400 MSRP. Good value too! Wasn't it said here repeatedly that in order to make a nice metal framed gun the manufacturer would have to make its MSRP prohibitively expensive? Guess not. Imagine that. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:41 AM
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The more and more I'm looking at this and thinking about it, the more I'm going to see if I can get on a wait list at my LGS.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Very interesting pistol. If it shoots well I will probably have one.

Sub $400 MSRP. Good value too! Wasn't it said here repeatedly that in order to make a nice metal framed gun the manufacturer would have to make its MSRP prohibitively expensive? Guess not. Imagine that. Regards 18DAI
From its description and MSRP, I can imagine folks at Springfield, S&W, Kahr and Ruger hoping this thing has issues.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:46 PM
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Would have to guess that the aluminum frame has a steel insert to catch the breechblock momentarily. So the frame could be relatively unstressed and therefore probably precision cast. Just a SWAG.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:51 PM
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I'm torn on that Remington. What a funky looking design. I wonder if the company decided to make a fashion statement. However, if it works, there won't be any complaints from me. I have serious doubts about the delayed blowback action in 9mm, but again if it works, OK. A single action without an exposed hammer or safety lever? And the price seems too low... Heck the more I consider it, the more torn I am. I guess I need to wait a year for all the bugs to get worked out and see if, indeed, the R51's better than a CS9 or 908S.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:52 PM
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Interestingly I read on another board where this R51 pistol project is being spearheaded by a former S&W employee.

Will the last gun guy to leave S&W please turn out the lights. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom-tom View Post
... A single action without an exposed hammer or safety lever?...
If it follows in the Model 51's tradition, it'll be a heavy SA pull.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:35 PM
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Looks like an interesting gun. Remington is to be applauded for taking a chance with something different than the usual glock-like plastic/striker stuff everyone is coming out with these days. I won't be getting rid of my j-frames or 3913s anytime soon though. Those things just work. Lets see how this R51 thing functions. How many new guns have we seen come out of the gate still a bit buggy.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:13 PM
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I read the post over at the Firearms Blog, but didn't see mention of what they used for the frame. Can someone point me to that?

I think this firearm is aimed at the emerging non gunnie self defense market. A lot of people are interested in SD firearms, but aren't interested in firearms.

Supposedly a .40 version is next, but I'd think that a .380 version has a lot of potential for sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Very interesting pistol. If it shoots well I will probably have one.

Sub $400 MSRP. Good value too! Wasn't it said here repeatedly that in order to make a nice metal framed gun the manufacturer would have to make its MSRP prohibitively expensive? Guess not. Imagine that. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
I read the post over at the Firearms Blog, but didn't see mention of what they used for the frame. Can someone point me to that?

I think this firearm is aimed at the emerging non gunnie self defense market. A lot of people are interested in SD firearms, but aren't interested in firearms.

Supposedly a .40 version is next, but I'd think that a .380 version has a lot of potential for sales.
This First Look: Remington R51 Sub-Compact Pistol | Guns & Ammo mentions the aluminum frame.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scwv67 View Post
Thanks! This looks like an interesting firearm, but I don't know that I'd buy one. Like others, I prefer the 3913/14 design.

As 18DAI says, this undermines the claim that S&W can't make a metal frame hand gun at a competitive price.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:20 PM
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I have to find a gun aesthetically pleasing to own. That one looks like it's father was the old Nylon 66 .22 LR and it's mother the Model 660 center fire.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:36 PM
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I have to find a gun aesthetically pleasing to own. That one looks like it's father was the old Nylon 66 .22 LR and it's mother the Model 660 center fire.
You are probably not the target demographic. Nor am I. I think they are marketing this at people who want a gun for self defense, but aren't in to guns. It's rounded like that so that it will not hang up if used as a pocket pistol. At least I think so.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:48 PM
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No bumper? Even better
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:15 PM
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Guess no one but me cares that it was based on the design of a man in a fairly elite group, someone who could sit down and have a beer with John Garand or John Browning and have a chat about firearm design.

The original is a fine weapon with exc...no, outstanding, handling characteristics. If anything could seduce me away from my MiniGlock, this may be it. Love to have a reliable, thin, easy to shoot 9 that points naturally.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
You are probably not the target demographic. Nor am I. I think they are marketing this at people who want a gun for self defense, but aren't in to guns. It's rounded like that so that it will not hang up if used as a pocket pistol. At least I think so.
While I would agree, I also think it will serve a market with people that are into guns and have been waiting for something like this. Same size as an LC9, same capacity as a 3913, lighter than a 3913, SA, and no thumb safety. While I'm not crazy about the looks, for the features I can easily look past the looks. I just hope it doesn't have issues.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Thanks! This looks like an interesting firearm, but I don't know that I'd buy one. Like others, I prefer the 3913/14 design.

As 18DAI says, this undermines the claim that S&W can't make a metal frame hand gun at a competitive price.
I have no plans to replace my 3913 with one, but if it streets at around $350 or so, I may have to try one out.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:36 PM
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Ugly bugger!
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:48 PM
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Count me in! The 51 is one of the all time great pocket pistols.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonS View Post
Guess no one but me cares that it was based on the design of a man in a fairly elite group, someone who could sit down and have a beer with John Garand or John Browning and have a chat about firearm design.

The original is a fine weapon with exc...no, outstanding, handling characteristics. If anything could seduce me away from my MiniGlock, this may be it. Love to have a reliable, thin, easy to shoot 9 that points naturally.
And you missed my enthusiasm about maintaining the spirit of John Pedersen's design how???

I couldn't give a rat's buttocks caring about styling cues if the thing performs as well as the original.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:40 PM
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Skiming is not reading, sorry about that. Glad to know I am not the only person who likes the design as opposed to the styling.

This may be my wife's gun come this spring. She needs a laser sight and the fact that it is inexpensive, has one already available and has minimal muzzle flip are all positives.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:53 PM
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I jumped on the Kimber Solo Carry 9 bandwagon...not doing that again!
I can give it some time.
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:08 PM
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I'll be looking at a Bersa Thunder tomorrow with an eye towards using it as a pocket gun. Or, if my wife decides to start carrying, it could be her pocket(book) gun.

My son bought on in November and I was impressed with it when I test fired it.
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:25 PM
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First, I though S&W killed the 3913 along with the rest of their 3rd Gens years ago...

Secondly, I might be in the minority, but I find that ray gun looking thing so ugly it makes even a Glock look good.


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Old 01-03-2014, 07:58 PM
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I always wanted a pistol based on what I consider to be a very good engineering design from J. Pederson - Put me down for one ! Reminds me a little of the old Whitney Wolverine.

Remington Announces New R-51 Pistol - The Firearm Blog
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:08 PM
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I'm still out on making any decisions, it kinda reminds me of a re-engineered PPK with the blowback and lock breech. Some say it has a lighter recoil spring. I can't imagine what it is like with 9mm+p ammo. Even with an aluminum frame I think it will take a beating on recoil, afraid to even think what it will be like when they consider the .40 S&W in it. I agree on the statement on bringing it out in .380.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:41 PM
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Ugly bugger!
That's kinda what I thought.
The demographic is more like Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder and Helen Keller.
I really like the old 51 much more.
Thanks
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:00 PM
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I have always appreciated the styling of the PP and PPK. My only hesitation with them was the cartridge's lack of power. It's interesting that in the last few years the .380 has enjoyed a renewing of popularity. Perhaps we'll face bad guys who are easier to stop in today's 'kinder & gentler' society?

Anyhow, I like the looks of the R51. Now; I have spent my time crawling around in the weeds looking for 9mm brass. My interest is in the .40 S&W flavor. My only concern is over the persnickety nature of the .40 cart. It may have changed but at one time there was concern over the fact many pistols had an open area of their firing chamber and the unsupported portion of the .40 casing wall tended to bulge, indicating it could burst there. Perhaps a few did, causing injury to the shooters. Reloading was actually discouraged at one time because the "safe" power range was very restricted, with warnings about the possibility of a KaBoom at both ends of that range. This would not apply to the 9mm.

If the R51 opens the breech a tad bit in the early part of the firing cycle does that mean the whole base of the casing is unsupported while still under high pressure? That'd be my only reservation based on what I have seen up to this point. Since reading about people getting on the Wait List for 9mm models, I will check the local dealer about getting on a list for the .40 and see where we go from there.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
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I have always appreciated the styling of the PP and PPK. My only hesitation with them was the cartridge's lack of power. It's interesting that in the last few years the .380 has enjoyed a renewing of popularity. Perhaps we'll face bad guys who are easier to stop in today's 'kinder & gentler' society?
There are any number of posts on this forum about advances in 9mm ammunition lethality, including why some agencies are thinking of going back to it. Is there any reason to think that similar advances haven't and won't be made in .380?

My son is a pretty well built guy, but he doesn't like the recoil of 9mm. I'd rather have him carry a .380 that he can hit his target with than a 9mm that he can't.
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:00 AM
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There are any number of posts on this forum about advances in 9mm ammunition lethality, including why some agencies are thinking of going back to it. Is there any reason to think that similar advances haven't and won't be made in .380?

My son is a pretty well built guy, but he doesn't like the recoil of 9mm. I'd rather have him carry a .380 that he can hit his target with than a 9mm that he can't.
Sure, good for him. Some folks find the .32 H&R Magnum in a J Frame gives six shots of stopping power they need while still having a grip they can get their hands around. That round's effectiveness surprised me since my only experience with .32s were the ancient S&W Long revolver loads which seem so weak they lead to carelessness.

I personally feel quite uncomfortable with low powered rounds and am surprised you challenged me on that very general comment. My usual carry these days are a 640-1 loaded with .38s, or a Colt Officers Model .45 ACP. In previous years it was an M-29 which my son now has. I am big enough to comfortably handle and carry a larger weapon, so they are my preference. The only reason for carrying a .38 is the environment isn't always conducive to the more powerful weapon.

Because ammunition manufacturers must hold pressure to levels which are safe for older firearms, and because of the straight blowback action most .380s use it seems unlikely the cart's power can be increased very much and still be safe to fire in older guns. The .38 ACP/.38 Super evolution is a good example. The results with that exercise were similar to loading a batch of .38 Spl rounds up to .357 Magnum pressure and firing them through a prewar .38 Spl revolver: Rather messy.

However, as you note, recent years have seen some really amazing improvements in bullet design, greatly improving existing ammunition's effectiveness. There is no argument with anyone carrying and shooting the combination of firearm and ammunition which works the very best for him or her.
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:39 AM
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So since Remington is resurrecting the Model 51, when do you guys think Colt will reintroduce a new slightly beefed up version of the M-1903/1908 pocket autos and then Smith and Wesson with their .35 pocket autos? I was just thinking to myself the other day why no one has tried updating the Remington and then this post pops up. So any day now we will have our flying cars like in the Jetsons!
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:55 AM
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From its description and MSRP, I can imagine folks at Springfield, S&W, Kahr and Ruger hoping this thing has issues.
I just wonder..... why S&W has not already gone in this direction!
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:25 AM
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I've got to go into my ffl and do another transfer. Been reading about this one and going to tell them I'm interested in beta testing the R51 and to order me one as soon as they're able. At $389 msrp, I'll likely pay sub 350 and if the fiancee doesn't claim it as hers, I'll run it through its paces and see if it unseats any carry horses in the stable.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:09 PM
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Here's hoping the new R-51 isn't much bigger.

Bonus photo. "Find the S&Ws":


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Old 01-04-2014, 07:15 PM
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Holy Catfish, Batman! If it's anywhere near as good as the old Model 51 in ergnomics and low recoil, then I'll have to have several.

The .380 Model 51 is absolutely my favorite small auto to date. It points so well it doesn't really need the teeny sights it's got. Very flat. And it was a pioneer of magazine safety having pistols, but it is easily deactivated. Well, "easy" is a relative term...It seems Remington did not add the manual safety this time, which Pederson thought unnecessary and only added at the behest of the mfg. (All it did was block the grip safety, which seems humorous somehow.)

ETA: Speaking of pocket autos, I've going to pick up the S&W .35 caliber pistol on layaway, whilst seeing if the LGS can get me a new Remington.

Heading that way, right now!
So, did Paulie know about them? Got any coming in? I sent him an e-mail and toid him to put me down for one too. Can't wait! I need a grandson for my 51.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:52 PM
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The more I look at it...the better I like it....what did everybody say about Glocks when they first came out....I hope it becomes a huge success and is embraced by the "hardcore " firearm community.....good grief if Remington can make an all metal pocket carry 9mm that is affordable ....and if it's reliable....and make MAGAZINES readily available......maybe ...just maybe....someone is left at S&W to take notice
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:35 PM
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If anything this R-51 has created quite a stir among those if us who still carry a metal handgun! And yeah, I wanna try one too!!
As for it bein a "3913 Killer"...that an awful tall order, to which I say "Uh huh, right!"
Big John made mention though of something that's on my bucket list, an updated Colt 1903/1908 in 9mmP...IF, if they built that one you'd see a vapor trail from my house to the local gun shop!!

I wish Remington well with this one. I hope it kills the Shield, AND I hope it makes the current management at S&W rethink the idea that everybody wants a polymer pistola!
Dale
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:38 PM
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Already spoke to my local shop. Going to have money down on one in a little over a week.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by safearm View Post
Unlike the original Model 51, this one will be rated for 9mm+P. Looks like Remington is getting in the race with S&W (Shield), Beretta (Nano), Walther (PPS), Kimber (Solo), etc.
Yes, while Glock rushes head-long into the .380 market. . . .
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:17 PM
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For the record S&W killed the 3913......and only they can bring it back. Im getting a R51
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianXIX View Post
For the record S&W killed the 3913......and only they can bring it back. Im getting a R51
They did, and I think that was a mistake. Of course I'm not the only who thinks that and it's number 1 on a lot of peoples' wish list.

I'll certainly look at the R51, I think it has a lot of potential.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:48 PM
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I'm not even an auto pistol guy but this is one that's got my attention. Looks great, it's priced well, and so far the reviews I've seen have all been good. Can't wait to handle one in person.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:59 PM
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I can't wait to check one out. Fantastic lookin' little beast.
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