Very nice!!! And a good point about many of the guns made before the war.

I've always wanted a 03-A4 sniper rifle. Can't afford one. Found a sporterized 03-A3 at the Albuquerque show some years ago. Stock cut back, receiver drilled and tapped and bolt bent, two groove barrel. I bought it. It didn't shoot too well the first time. Didn't do too well the second time either, but then I found an old cartridge box in the trash bin, tore a couple of strips off it, and after loosening the guard screws, put the strips under the forend and tightened everything down. It shot into almost an inch!! Got a military stock for it, and had it inletted for the bolt. Didn't know what to do about the bedding, but after asking on line I liked one answere: "just tighten everything down and see how it shoots". It shot about as well as the cutoff stock with cardboard shims. It's one of the most accurate rifles I own. Noone will mistake it for an 03-A4, but it looks a lot like one and is most satisfactorily accurate.

Any sporter with double set triggers is fabulous in my book.

No sporting rifle should be made without them.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Does the rifle belong to you? If so, then no, I wouldn't care.

I've been a shooter since I was 9, and I can't remember ever not being a "gun nut".

But I think we should remember we're discussing inanimate objects, and the right one has to do whatever they want to with their own property. If someone was to buy a beautiful old Triple Lock, and decide to make it a snubby, there are lots of people here who would cry foul over that. Who cares?

Opinions are referred to as a person's "2 cents worth" for a pretty good reason!

Hi, my name is SteelSlaver and I am a Bubba! My dad was a Bubba too. He bought Springfields and Enfields and bubbaed everyone of them. All 5 of us boys and a couple of the girls all have them. Milled off sights, straightened floor plates, cock on opening firing pins and Herters stocks. Mine was past to my son. I still have my dads Enfield which was bubbaed so far it became a 30-338. Whaaaaaa. All of them are well loved and more cherished than if they had remained the $19.95 milspecs he bought them for. All of them have shot a lot of game. Great guns. I myself am a S&W butcher. My Brazilian is almost complete as a carbine complete with reworked and welded grip frame and 16 1/2" barrel and adjustable sights, my model 25-2 sports a 45LC cylinder, my model 10 has adjustable sights and a 357 cylinder. My 629 is going under the knife next to become the perfect 45LC/ACP. Cylinder reamed to 45LC and then milled for full moons and the full length under lug on the 45 barrel I just bought will be milled to the old style profile. Mine get worked on and shot. None of them laying in a safe being perfect and LNIB.

If it wasn't for people like me and my dad a lot of the valuable collectables the purist cherish and pursue would just be one of many and a lot less of a collectors item. You want to be a purist that's fine with me. But, to me something like a 1917 Enfield in full military dress that rarely leaves the gun safe to fire is a lot less valuable than a nice sporterized one that goes to camp every year and hangs meat on the pole.

Its like this. You can have the perfect example of a milspec 1937 Brazilian in perfect condition with the factory stocks. Whoopee, one of how many??
I am going to have a DA revolving carbine in 45ACP/LC with a nice walnut/maple stock and forearm. How many of those are there???
How much is it worth? Haven't got a clue? If I wanted money I would collect money and not spend it on guns.

sometimes sporting an old rifle is great your giving it a new home and its being put to good use and enjoyment is a wonderful thing.

Never said he couldn't do it. Do whatever you want. Doesn't make it less Bubba tho

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I think this No4 Mk I cost about 29 bucks when I got it and started sawing away in 1972 or thereabouts. I like it. With the mag and butt-thingy full I've got 19 rounds available. The sights are great and it handles very well.

I especially like the snorts of derision it elicits from the don't-touch-them-they-only-made-a-gazillion-of-them crowd.





Randy likes it, and that's what counts anyway.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Its true, my dad was a "Bubba". I will say everything he attempted did work as he intended but wasnt flashy. Dad did cut down some K-98 mauser bring backs. He would put wooden pads on all long guns he owned as at 6ft 5"s he needed the extra LOP. Dad would cut or drill holes in his work shoes so they would "breathe." He altered many tools and things to fit or help him. All worked well, but he wasnt into finishing things to where they looked like "factory". He was strictly utilitarian and also was the most "conservative" man you ever met politically. Most everything he owned he "customized" to fit him and his purpose. Nothing got threw out either.

I have a Smith Corona 03-A3 that I bought from a club member years ago. Had a two groove barrel put on it, replaced the stamped parts with the milled ones, put in a nickel steel bolt, and put the gun into an aftermarket "C" type hardwood stock. The rear sight had been changed out for a Lyman Adjustable target sight by the former owner. I put a Marine Corps style match target sight blade, that my Cousin made, on the gun, and I'm completely happy with it. The gun is very accurate and I have no inclination to sell it whatsoever.

I wonder if these folks that get all upset about "sporterizing" military rifles feel the same way about civilian guns.

I sent a 94 Winchester 30/30 off and had it rebarreled to 38/55. My Model 28 has been converted to 38/40. My Ruger Bisley Blackhawks have been converted to the "Old Model" Colt-style action. Both my 19 and my HK PSP went to Robar and got nickel-tefloned.

Oh My Gawd!!! Have I bubbaed my guns?

I feel so ashamed.

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I always take precautions

I probley have had done at least 3 handguns and 3 rifles I can quickly think of. Probley a couple I am forgetting and owned several more that someone before me had done.
For good or bad we/me/them had our reasons when we did them. The very worst reason is to think you are going to come out ahead financially.
Any other reason can be argued by the one doing it. Would I do them again? No, only if I had money to burn and knew and accepted the fact that I am going to lose money on the deal. Now IF you want something to show your own individual idea`s and taste, can afford it, have at it!

Today in Sweden, a Husqvarna or CarlGustaf m96 is worth $0
Even in super condition, so why not cut one up as a sporter?

Thouse long military rifles are great shooters
but try sneaking trough bushes with them

Made this one from a Husqvarna, great deer gun.
Was planing to make a silencer for it to.

Never ment to win any beauty contest, just take down game.

That might be so at the moment but over here all us older guys have seen 1911`s, 1917s, and virtually most phased out military guns go cheap when we were kids and in later years go out of sight and just about unattainable. Maybe those guns will too?

About 15 to 20 years ago I found a Remington 722 that started life as a 300 Savage but it had been converted to .308 which was stamped over the 300 Savage on the barrel. I bought to make into a high power silhouette rifle. I unscrewed the factory barrel and screwed on a Remington 700 308 heavy varmint barrel. I bedded it into a 700 varmint stock and had my main silhouette rifle which I shot for many years. I knew it was an early rifle because the serial number was in the bolt raceway. I have since found that it is the earliest example of the short action 722 known to exist at this time. That does not mean that it is the first one made but it could be. If it were a pristine example I most likely would not have bought it. I did keep the original barrel and stock but it will never be a 300 Savage again. That was taken care of by someone else before I bought it.

I wouldn't cut up a full military example of anything to make into a 'sporter' as there are just too many already altered examples around to work on. From actions and bbl'd actions to rifles with cut down wood and drilled and tapped for scopes, pads added,,,any number of alterations that have taken them from the Military Collector field to the shooter catagory.
Some not altered too far or that may be salvagable dispite alterations that it's worth the work to 'restore' them to their prior Military status.
I've done that to a couple early MkI and MkI* SMLEs from the 1904/06 era,,sliding charger bridge and the so difficult to find rear handguard. I've still got another two in the works.
But I'm not opposed to building a sporter,,usually a pre-ww2 or even pre ww1 style European sporter on an already altered rifle.
What better way to bring the old rifles back to life than in the sporter form that many of the very factorys that made the Military versions also manufactured.
The custom gunsmiths of the day didn't do too bad either.

Sedgley of Philadelphia made hundreds of sporter 1903 Springfields.
All built on military parts bought as scrap metal from the US Gov't,,paid for by the pound.
Low # '03s recv'rs condemned both by the Gov't and most of the shooting press as a handgrenade in hand.
They were headed to the smelter if Sedgleys hadn't bid for them.
So much for romantic history.
Mine is still in one piece after nearly 90yrs as a sporter and is as fine a shooter (and looker) as any.

Yes there are a lot of poorly done sporter jobs out there. They were cheap, available rifles at one time.
Everyone had a hacksaw and a file in the garage or basement shop.
$5 to $10 would get you a military rifle of some sorts and probably some ammo at most any gun show. $20 would give you the pick of the litter.
My first Mauser was a as-new un-issued in the grease Loewe-Berlin mfg 1983 Model Mauser rifle in 7x57 complete w/matching bayonet and scabbard. Retail price off the rack,,I splurged,, was $14.99.

This "it's just one in a gazillion" thing is what gets unusual rifles trashed. Take this perfect example from a pawn shop the other year.

It was marked "Enfield No.4 Mk1*/2" with a crude attempt to obliterate the *. It was one of a few hundred or a couple of thousand rifles that were mismarked at the Maltby factory as Mk1*. At some point it was updated to Mk2 standard, hence the weird designator. Real Mk1* rifles were marked Mk1/3 after update. The original stock was reworked to remove the strap at the rear of the forend and little filler pieces fitted. It still had the original serial on what was left of the forend so I know it was the original stock. So there you go, an unusual variant ruined by bubba and his hacksaw through blind ignorance. Broke my heart.

True, but this one did not have a single number that matched.
Still have an original 1907 CG m96 tucked away

Gun laws here make it hard to keep guns just for fun
and the ones that no one really needs goes to the scrapper.
I have seen really nice guns sent to the police for destruction.
Not saving a single screw, it all gets grinded down.

Did manage to save a nice m96 just at the desk,
the owner wanted to get it out of the house and i had room to spare

Surely you jest about O'Connor. That's the sort of rifle that'd give Jack "a case of the vapors" as he phrased it.

He was into classic rifles and popularized that look. He loved the Winchester M-70 and I think he'd approve of the current ones.

My brothers, sisters and I where all given either Springfield or Enfields that the "old man" bought cheap and had the sights milled off, Herters wood stocks fitted, bolts reworked and changed to cock on opening. He didn't have much money, but he did have lots of love for us and shooting. Those guns have taken lots of game and are all cherished to this day. I gave mine to my oldest son for his first deer hunt.

Would I do it today? I doubt it. I can go pick up a very nice rifle of a variety of calibers and options. But, then they will never have the sentiment and meaning of those rifles that were labors of love.

No. Have no use for guys who butcher up classic cars either.

I hate to see a half-assed butcher job on a fine old military rifle. Have bought several over the years that had at least escaped any metal cutting and returned them to military status. However I have seen and owned a few really nicely done examples that did impress me by the time and effort someone clearly put into them.

The peak of the sporter craze ran from the late 40's into the 60's. Old gun mags I have were full of articles on how to sporter these rifles and a lot of people tried. Some had the talent to produce a fine rifle, have seen a few that were really impressive. Have also bought a few just to salvage the action parts, they were really bad.

As with many things, if you're going to do it, do it right. It also helps to know your own limitations.

I hate them on priciple and looks. Butchering history is never a good thing.

Nagant!

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Well, when you think about that these were rifles that were in barrels in sporting goods stores, and treated like broomsticks, this is reality. They might have been history, but they were last year's history. After a war, the tools are just so much salvage. Battleships, B-17s, P-51s, tanks, they were all just things to be made into scrap iron, so we could get back on civilian footing. Look at all the old Ford coupes that were cobbled up into dirt track cars, 55-57 Chevys too. Being a long time drag racer, it doesn't bother me to see old Corvettes made into unrestorable race cars. I'd rather see them like that, than a pristine example in a museum or in someone's garage under a cover.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

The original poster asks "How do you feel?" and when some guys say they don't like them, don't approve of butchering old mil-surps some of you guys get your panties all in a wad and throw out the "It's my gun and I'll do what I want to it" card or the "They made millions of them so they aren't rare" card. He asked for opinions but some of you guys don't want to hear dissenting ones.

I admit I've seen some really good looking rifles on this thread but I'm not a fan of sporterized rifles. I don't care for refinished military rifles either. To me they look like your old uncle wearing a bad toupe'. Most are garage jobs done poorly.

I'll bet the fire stands out of the muzzle of that thang at least three feet every time he pulls the trigger.

Is it sporterized when the only thing left is the bolt and receiver?

98 mauser originally in 8x57, now it's 280 ackley improved.

Here's my 1917 Edystone, made in June of 1918, so I imagine it never left the CONUS.



It has an inlay.



Nice stock too!



Whoever did it was a craftsman. Totally done correctly.

Still an '06, thought I might make it a .340 Wby some day, but the barrel is so nice, I gave that thought up.

I am a fan.

This 7x57 was a M96 Swede.



This 8x57 an Erfurt Mauser.



These Walther M98 brothers, 8x57 and 7x57.



This pre-war JP Sauer 98 was a shot out 30-06 I had rebored to 35 Whelen.

I was going to post this in the 'other weapons' forum but thought it would be better in this string. I took my 308 out a few days ago. The range was in a state of chaos as they were redoing the target holders so I was forced to start sighting in at 100 yards. I fired one shot and looked through the scope, hoping I'd find a bullet hole in the 25 yard pistol target I was using. Could see nothng at first, then I spied a hole at 12 O'Clock, about an inch from the top of the target. Gave the Lyman 48's elevation knob about four full turns and fired another one to see where I was. My lucky day; it showed up in the black so I fired nine more. The group was just at 3 inches across and I was more than happy. With the peep sight, my old eyes can't see much better that that. The load was 17 grs of SR 4759 and the Lyman cast bullet #311291, sized to .311" and made from fairly soft alloy. I was fortunate enough to have a four cavity mould for that bullet; they don't make them that size any more.

The rifle looks like nothing to brag about. When the Swiss exported their surplus M 1911s in the late 1950s, the only 7.5X55mm ammo available in the US was from Norma; spottily available and very expensive. The 7.5 is fatter than the 30-06 and related cases, so rechambering the rifle isn't a simple process. Someone modified a large number of these rifles, probably on an assembly line basis. In 1961 I saw two GI rifle racks full of them at a local gun store; that's 40 rifles. First they shortened the stock and set the barrel back about two inches to the point where the diameter of the 7.5 case was smaller than the base of the 308. Then they rechambered them to 308 and shortened the barrel to 22 inches. They gave the chamber a generous freebore, too, again about two inches, probably out of respect for 308 pressures and that long, skinny bolt head of the Swiss M 1911 (mine is actually a 96/11).

I got mine years ago, paid the lordly sum of $22.50 for it. Didn't think too much of it at first as it's pretty ugly. The accuracy was poor. I took off the issue open sights and put on a Lyman 66. That cost more than the rifle. It's difficult to mount a scope as the empty ejects straight up. Accuracy didn't improve much. I fooled around some, with little results then slugged the bore; it measured .311". People at the Swiss Rifles forum didn't want to hear that and I had trouble believing it myself so I slugged it again: .311". A few years later I slugged it the third time and it was still .311". I tried .311" hunting bullets and accuracy improved to the point the limiting factor was my ability to hold close with peep sights. I actually fired it twice over the National Match Course, using 150 gr bullets for 200 and 300 yards, and 180s for 600. Scores were in the high Sharpshooter range (They went up to Expert when I began to use a Model 70 target rifle in 308). Later testing showed it liked 180s better than 150s. I haven't tried the 174 gr Sierra match bullets in this diameter, but they probably shoot even better.

I'm VERY happy with it; a sporterizing job that eventually turned out well; it's a keeper. The rifle has almost a dual personality; it's the kind of rifle you can throw in the back of a pickup and forget about it. In use, however, it can deliver rapid, accurate fire. Now I plan to load up a bunch more 311291s if I can ever find some more SR 4759, and improve my offhand skills (which can take a lot of improving).

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To each their own, but not for me.

Qball, actually I like what you did to your rifle. I have about 6 swedes. Only one has been drilled and tapped for a scope. gunsmith who botched the job passed away about two weeks after he did it. Picked up 4 1896 Swedes for $75 bucks each. Bores good on all of them, except one of then bubba did some work on the rear sight. Figured if my two daughters ever decided to take up hunting I'd give them one of the long 1896 jobs. So far no takers. Frank

Most of the old guns used to have little value. It made sense; you could build a custom gun at a low cost. Personally, I like them when they were obviously done by a professional. If the work is amateurish it can be quite sad.

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John
S&WCA Life Member

I realize a lot of the sporterized guns out there got that way when the military weapons they originated from were plentiful and cheap, but it always seemed a shame to me to throw away the piece's historical connections. One of the funnest gun projects I ever did was restoring a 1903-A3 that had been sporterized. It was in a sporting stock, but the barreled action had not been altered. Over the years I gathered a new miitary stock and the hardware to go with it, and now it looks like a pristine as-issued '03. On the other hand, one of my favorite rifles is a sporterized K98 Mauser. The action is the only original part left. It was lovingly restocked and rebarreled in .30-'06 by an unknown gunsmith, probably in the fifties.

All in all, I'd have to vote for leaving those old military arms be. If it's a sporting rifle you need, there are plenty of 'em out there.










a

I've never modified an original rifle. I've had several that were passed on in the same condition in which I bought them.

However, if the right well-done Swede comes along, I may spring for it.

If you brought it back, I think it is your choice. Three of my guys in Viet Nam brought back "souvenirs". One brought back a German Mauser that he intended to convert to a .270 sporter, and the other took home an old French MAS 36 that was just going to be hung over the fireplace. The third brought back a Mosin Nagant sniper rifle. All those rifles have some serious history.

I always love this discussion. I have an old abused S&W 1917 that I have plans for. When it comes to surplus rifles, I don't think I will ever sporterize one, but I have purchased one.

This let's me tell one of my favorite gun buying stories.

I was at an OGCA show several years ago when I spotted what I considered a beautiful sporterized Remington manufactured 03A3. Behind the table was an older man, a WWII vet. We negotiated a deal. I was sure I had gotten the better of him, got him down below $300 - $280 I think. After the deal was done, he was holding my cash and I his rifle, He smiled, with a twinkle in his eye and said "...ya know what I paid for that rifle? .... $25. He was sure he had gotten the better of me. I guess those are really the best trades when both parties think they got the better end of the deal.

This is that rifle:

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Dave

I used to be the biggest surplus rifle snob, and to an extent I still am. You'll never see me altering even the smallest detail of a correct military rifle, but ones that have already had work done or are in terrible shape, maybe. I guess that comes from spending too much time talking with an 80 year old gunsmith that openly admits to altering 100s of .455s to .45ACP in the past 50 years. Case in point, I recently picked up a shot-out, non-matching 1895 Chilean Mauser that I'm going to rework as an homage to the African plains game rifles of the 1890's-1950's and the people who used them. I look at it in this case as giving new life to a tool that had not only completely spent its old one but is a little overdrawn. No, it's not economically feasible and you can never get your money back out of it, but that's not why you build custom rifles, is it?

I bought a cut-down `98 Krag a few years back for $180, which included a box and a half of Remington ammo. That's a small fraction of what it would have been worth unaltered.

Bought a Remington M1903A1 in the `80s from a dealer. The dealer told me that his gunsmith could sporterize it if I wanted. I opted to leave it alone. A couple years ago, I learned that the rifle was one of the early ones that Remington made in 1942 before they began changing the production to `03A3s. They seem to be comparatively rare nowadays.

Chopping up a collectible or potentially collectible rifle is essentially the same as sawing up a handful of money; it's a stupid thing to do. That said, there are a lot of fine old rifles out there with a lot of life left in them and zero collector value because somebody, somewhere, shortened a barrel, threw away the original sights, cut down the stock, bent the bolt or whatever. "Restoring" them results in the classic "parts gun," which at best has little collector value and at worst is a good enough job to con the unwary into spending too much on it. I see no harm in taking a rifle in that condition and, as somebody else said, doing the job right. There are a great many fine hunting rifles out there that started as military surplus, and putting your own custom stock, scope mount, new barrel, aftermarket trigger or whatever on one of those strikes me as a worthwhile thing to do, if the result is a rifle that shoots well and isn't an offense to the eye. And regarding the latter portion of that, as the PC crowd never stops telling us, offense is in the eye of the beholder. If you don't like it, don't look.

This little thread has sure brought out some strong opinions! Since it's all just opinions anyway, I'll toss mine out - it's a slow night at work.
My first centerfire rifle was a 98 Mauser, left 8x57, but with a nice aftermarket "sporter" stock (walnut) and a Lyman peep and Williams front sights. Dad carried a 1917 Enfield, myrtle stock, Weaver K4 scope, Timney trigger. Mom used a Springfield, walnut sporter stock, Leupold scope, Timney trigger, Beuhler safety. They all killed deer. They are all still in the family and they are treasured WAY more than my Rugers, Winchesters, and even my Colt Sauer .30-06. I was 25years old before I got over the notion that some people had to hunt with "factory" rifles because they couldn't find a decent converted military rifle, and I'm not entirely sure yet that I wasn't right before.
I guess what stirs me up more than anything is having some snot call me and my family "bubbas" because he doesn't like what we did with surplus military rifles. Well, I'm no bubba and neither was my dad, Jackass! Get over yourself. You're entitled to your opinion, but when you start calling my family names you're apt to find yourself with a scab on your nose.
There, I said I'd express my opinion, and I hope I made it clear enough.

Certainly a prevailing attitude today, and understandable, but spoken from a modern perspective that ignores historic facts. In the late '40s/early '50s surplus rifles were available in the millions, and were CHEAP -- as in Mausers for $7-8, Springfields and Enfields for no more than $10-12. There was huge pent-up demand for sporting bolt actions following years when production had been 100% dedicated to military needs, and when available they cost 10-15 times more than surplus and often were not as well-built or designed as the military rifles. Labor was cheap, too, and with a little money you could have an excellent custom rifle, uniquely your own, for less than the cost of a brand-new mass-produced rifle that likely was not as accurate as your custom job. It made absolute sense to sporterize.

Those who collect military arms today should be grateful for the sporterizing craze; without it, your pristine rare collector pieces would be common, and their value far less.

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Pisgah

Many a milsurp turned into fine sporting rifles...and many a milsurp turned into utility-grade hunting rifles.

I've un-bubbized a 'sported' Spanish M1916 7mm back into original configuration...however I left my 'sported' Krag US M1898 as it was.

I have an old gunsmithing book around here with detailed destructions on 'sporterizing' M1 Garand rifles...and converting other milsurps to sporters as well. While dedicated collectors may 'stroke-out'..at one time it was very common for tight budget shooters to convert those 'useless' old combat arms into hunting rifles. The custom rifle industry was built(literally) from old Mausers and Springfields...with many a fine old Winchester Model 70 stripped down for the action too!!

A sporterized M1? Pics, please!!

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Registration? NEVER!

I was given a Springfield A303 that had been sporterized beyond restoration. When I had it appraised it was basically worth nothing. The thing that broke my heart was it had been manufactured by Smith Corona, I believe, and would have been worth quite a bit had it been left in it's original military configuration. To bad, so sad. I guess if it's your gun, do what you wish, but be careful you are not destroying a classic.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

I saw a Bubba'd-up Mosin in a gunshop awhile back. It had New England Westinghouse markings. The price tag was a small fraction of what the unmodified rifle would have been worth.

Wow. Some people have very strong feelings on the subject.

I recall the days of 55 gallon barrels in the gun shops with Model 95s ($19.95), Model 98s ($29.95) and 1903s ($69.95). People didn't revere them at the time because it was too soon. Age adds dignity to material goods.

Say, that was rather profound. I'll have to remember that one.

In the 1940s people scrapped Model A Fords without a second thought. Now a rusty 1932 body will sell for thousands of dollars. Sometime in the middle of the NEXT century folks will stare in awe at the unmodified Model 98 Mauser in the glass display case in the war museum. Until then, they will continue to be hacked up, customized, and nicely rebuilt. That's what will make the one in case 150 years from now so valuable.

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No life story has happy end.

It's just the way things go. It's called the free market.Every wave of surplus guns comes in cheap and then goes away as the supply eventualy dries up. Then the price goes up.
Many delay buying one then get stuck paying the higher price.
Sometimes it was just plainly 'before your time' to get in on the fun.

It wasn't that long ago that the Turk Mausers were available on the surplus market. Early 90's,mid 90's maybe.
A couple different versions IIRC, at least one was a 98 long rifle.
$30 they could be bought for,,Thirty Dollars. Excellent/New bore
Some were German Mfg rebuilds.
You couldn't give them away at a gun show,,,a hard sell for sure.
Most eventually got bought up and made into sporters by the budget crowd,,same as the post WW2 era made those rifles into sporters.
Large supply, cheap price, low demand,,no takers.

Another chance to save history for $35 gone forever,,and not so very long ago.

Back when I first started reading Jeff Cooper's writings about the Scout Rifle, he recommended milsurps, suitably modified. One feature he liked was the ability to reload with stripper clips.

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Registration? NEVER!