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Old 01-20-2014, 07:18 AM
Rhetorician Rhetorician is offline
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Hello to all:

I am purchasing a pre-Model 10 38 special M and P Hand Eject model from my local pawn shop. So I am becoming a Smith owner.

I have an honest question I feel that I can ask the upright and fair members of this board. But I would like to avoid "brand bashing" or "gun snobbing" if at all possible.

What "think ye" of the Taurus brand of (hand) guns? Be nice and try to be objective if you will please. For full disclosure, I own a 738 TCP 380 acp as my EDC. I have a Ruger LCR 357 as my secondary EDC.

I look forward to reading your accurate and objective replies.

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Last edited by Rhetorician; 12-17-2014 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Edit
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:38 AM
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My only experience with them is a model 85 stainless. Bought it for the wife but it stays in the end table drawer.
I put Crimson trace grips on it and it shoots pretty good for the short barrel. The weight helps with the hotter .38 loads.
All in all, no complaints. I did deburr some sharp edges on it that didn't need to be there.
Not S&W quality but neither is the price.
Since this thread showed up again, I realized I was remiss in my evaluation. I did have a temporary hang up once when shooting it single action. I just shot double action from then on with no troubles. Due to that one time though, I don't consider it a front line SD gun. I have a hard time selling guns, so it sits in a drawer as a back up.

Last edited by Jessie; 07-11-2014 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:56 AM
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I'm not hunting for a reason to hate Taurus guns. I own zero safe queens. No guns I own came with "box and tools". And I put Pachy rubber grips on nearly all my pistols. My guns are all shooters, not investments. I've never had to deal with any gun maker's repair/warranty/customer service. I'm not a brand snob.

I have shot a LOT of Taurus Beretta 92 clones and a large handful of Taurus 38/357 revolvers. Without exception, EVERY one of them had horribly gritty and stiff, very heavy, triggers.

Is that "nice and objective" enough?

Whenever this frequent question surfaces, we always see "Don't listen to [the other side] Mine was [great/horrible]". They are right about one thing...Don't listen to...anyone. I'm perfectly capable of evaluating a gun and deciding if I like how it functions. It doesn't matter to me if someone who I've never met loves them or hates them.


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Old 01-20-2014, 08:03 AM
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I recently bought a Taurus 431. Which is a L frame sized 5 shot 44 special. It has good fit and finish and has a nice smooth trigger. No complaints. That's all I know.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:37 AM
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I have owned and then sold/traded these Taurus products over the past twenty-five years:
M94 .22LR-had a 20LB plus DA trigger and was not timed correctly.
M66 .357 Mag-took this a payment for a debt. Not a bad revolver fit/finish wise, but another terrible trigger.
PT-22= I thought this little gun would be a cheap alternative to the Beretta Tomcat, I was wrong. The slide would override its stops on recoil then fly OFF the frame going forward.
M605= early version of the .357 mag 5 shot stainless snub nose. Very good gun. Smooth, easily staged DA trigger and crisp SA. A bit loose compared to S&W. Sold for a profit after I replaced it with S&W's.
M431- 5 shot .44 Special from early 1990's. great finish. Fair accuracy. Not at all bad for the money.
M917- 8 shot .22 LR blued Tracker model. Heavy gun, heavy trigger, very good accuracy. Replaced springs. Sold it because it just wasn't fun to shoot.
TCP-238 -Very accurate pocket .380. Trouble with magazines made me ditch the gun. Would still have it if someone made mags other than Taurus.

PT1911 9MM- Bought this stainless 9MM 1911 type pistol for my wife and we still own it. Once we had 300 rounds through it, a very reliable pistol. Heavily favors 124 grain and up ammo. Very nice finish, fairly good trigger and feature set for around $600. Not the pistol my S&W 1911 9MM is, but the Taurus cost $700 less.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:59 AM
S&W357 S&W357 is offline
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I'm not going to say anything, Picture tells a 1000 words !!!
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:30 AM
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I have a Ultra 85 that I bought years ago new for my bug. Goes just about everywhere we me in my front pocket. Qualified Sat and scored 124 for 25 shot target. That is all I use it for. Every time I pull the trigger it goes bang.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:32 AM
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Back in the late 70s I was a security guard. The company was planning on having some "armed guards", as they could charge more for them. They bought a Taurus version of the Model 10, to try it out.

At the range, fired six shots, opened the cylinder and it came out of the gun. The crane had fractured and the cylinder broke off.

In the early 2000s I was working at a gun shop with a range and rental guns. One was a 4" ported Ti Taurus 357. It got rented a lot. It started spitting - lead and powder. Examination showed that the space between the top of the barrel and the bottom of the topstrap was packed full of lead. Apparently the gun had been shaving lead forever, and packing it up top, and when the space got full it started throwing the lead off to the sides. Took a dental pick and cleaned it out, and the spitting stopped, but it should not have filled up in the first place. Cylinder not lining up correctly with barrel?

My two experiences with Taurus, 25 years apart.

It's a piece of garbage.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:38 AM
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It is the same old story: You get what you pay for. Sometimes perfection, sometimes junk, but always only you can decide for yourself.

EDIT: I once owned an 8" Python Target 38 Special. It had a nice blue job. According to Forum rules, that is the only postable thing I can say about it. By any handgun standard, trigger pull and accuracy were beyond terrible, even in the opinion of other devoted Python worshippers. Every one can have a bad manufacturing day on one gun. That Python had a whole weeks worth of bad days.
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Last edited by Engineer1911; 01-20-2014 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:39 AM
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I don't happen to own any Tauri, but I have friends who do. I have examined and shot a fair amount of their products. No, its not a Smith or Colt. But I have found them to be them to be good servicable firearms for those on a budget.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:39 AM
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I've had a Taurus 94 for over ten years. The round count is probably pushing 20K and it still runs strong.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:40 AM
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I own a Taurus 709, 738, M85 Poly, G2C 24/7 .45, PT111 G2 and the only issue I have ever had is that I don't make it to the range enough to shoot. To be honest though I have tried to sell them all and can't bring myself to. Haha.

But in all honesty like any gun manufacturer , you hang around these forums long enough you will find a reason not to buy a gun. Taurus makes a fine gun.

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:40 AM
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Owned three different model 85 Taurus revolvers. Broke all three in less than 100 rounds of standard 38 special factory loads. I've seen several dozen of their single action "cowboy action" revolvers break in SASS. I'll stick to my S&Ws no matter what the price.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:38 PM
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I've had 2 Taurus pistols. Both 92's. One of them was the most accurate auto I've ever owned, It was almost as if it had it's own internal GPS/INS targeting device. Scary accurate, even when I thought I'd jerked the trigger. Wish I'd never sold it. The other one was a good shooter too, just not in the same accuracy class. Both were dependable and well finished, though not built to the same fit and finish tolerances of my Berettas. You can find a bad batch of anything I suppose. When I replaced my 9s I considered Taurus again but decided to go with the manufacturer that supplies our military. Service and parts were a concern. So far the Berettas have never let me down.

EDIT: Considering a revolver? Buy an S&W. I've owned a variety of different brands and I always come back to S&W for revolvers. They're tough to beat on any level.

Last edited by moe smith; 01-20-2014 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W357 View Post
I'm not going to say anything, Picture tells a 1000 words !!!
Holy Schnikey!!!
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:51 PM
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No Taurus love here.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:56 PM
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Not worth the money. They are not durable. They are made for those who shoot a few boxes of ammo a year.

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Old 01-20-2014, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W357 View Post
I'm not going to say anything, Picture tells a 1000 words !!!
While I don't like Taurus this is not the way to go about making a point. All that shows is a broken revolver with some ammo next to it. It could be bad reloads, wrong ammo, 2 different things photographed together to make a story. ...heck it can even be photo shopped. So if it ain't your photo and or you didn't personally see that happen then it's not proof of anything other than a broken gun

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Old 01-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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I was a RO at my large club for years and I can honestly say I saw more problems with various Taurus stuff than all other brands combined. I have heard that the newer stuff is much better, but Iím not going to spend my money to find out!
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:56 PM
S&W357 S&W357 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
While I don't like Taurus this is not the way to go about making a point. All that shows is a broken revolver with some ammo next to it. It could be bad reloads, wrong ammo, 2 different things photographed together to make a story. ...heck it can even be photo shopped. So if it ain't your photo and or you didn't personally see that happen then it's not proof of anything other than a broken gun

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That is my gun i bought new 2006 with new Remington 357 mag ammo. I don't do reloads !!! I shot 38s in it and then loaded 357 and when i shot it -thats what happen. My lawyer sent the gun to two gun smiths and both said that the wheel just couldn't handle the ammo. They said the wheel was locked and lined up with the barrel.The metal they used was from china. I also think that it was the first 8 shot rev. and maybe the metal was just to thin ??? Metalfortress.
I'm not hear to bash any gun but when something like that happens to you and you get hurt, you start looking into what happen. I when on line and i saw lots of those guns blow up. You can look for your self. Will i ever buy a 357 8 shot rev. from them again. NOT !!!!!!! You think i would let my son use that gun? NOT !!!!
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
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That is my gun i bought new 2006 with new Remington 357 mag ammo. I don't do reloads !!! I shot 38s in it and then loaded 357 and when i shot it -thats what happen. My lawyer sent the gun to two gun smiths and both said that the wheel just couldn't handle the ammo. They said the wheel was locked and lined up with the barrel.The metal they used was from china. I also think that it was the first 8 shot rev. and maybe the metal was just to thin ??? Metalfortress.
I'm not hear to bash any gun but when something like that happens to you and you get hurt, you start looking into what happen. I when on line and i saw lots of those guns blow up. You can look for your self. Will i ever buy a 357 8 shot rev. from them again. NOT !!!!!!! You think i would let my son use that gun? NOT !!!!
Well it makes more sense now then just a picture.

It's not Chinese steel. Brazil can make great guns. Their FAL rifles are some of the best and people pay a premium for their Imbel recievers. Its Taurus lack of proper hardening/heat treatment and plain old bad quality control on every level.

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Old 01-20-2014, 02:05 PM
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Have had a half dozen or so:

92 clone: No complaints. Just never could love it.

Model 85 CH=terrible. My wife's first carry. I didn't feel safe with her carrying it. Jam-a-holic.

Raging Bull in 454: No complaints. Heavy and loud. Will sell it when I get my Reeder 454.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Well it makes more sense now then just a picture.

It's not Chinese steel. Brazil can make great guns. Their FAL rifles are some of the best and people pay a premium for their Imbel recievers. Its Taurus lack of proper hardening/heat treatment and plain old bad quality control on every level.

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How many 38s? Was it cleaned before firing 357s?
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:12 PM
S&W357 S&W357 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Well it makes more sense now then just a picture.

It's not Chinese steel. Brazil can make great guns. Their FAL rifles are some of the best and people pay a premium for their Imbel recievers. Its Taurus lack of proper hardening/heat treatment and plain old bad quality control on every level.

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Cool -- i'm happy your not going to start a debate about this. I got hell for posting that picture from other forums. I also got band from one forum. When someone post and ask about a maker of guns. I'm going to show n tell. It was only those guns they had problems with. I really thing they when from 6 shot to 8 shot and when you do that -they have to thin out the wheel. Who knows ??? Any other size gun-Yes i would buy from them,they make a good gun for the price.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:12 PM
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I had heard for years reports of poor quality on Taurus firearms.

I avoided them. Then they produced the M85 revolver. Essentially a Chief's Special with an underlug. I liked the lines and suspected the underlug provided a good balance and heft. Haven't bought one yet but I might just to see if they are "good enough".

I do have M431 with the 2 1/2 inch barrel, fixed sights, in stainless. I just had to try it as it fit a niche no other .44 Special does (that I know of).

Mainspring was a bit too powerful so I replaced it with a Wolff spring. Wood grips were harsh on the hands, even with soft loads so I "remodeled" a pair of Uncle Mike's for the square butt M431. Problem solved.

Accuracy was okay with 3 inch groups at 25 yards for 240 and 200 grain loads. It shot about 1 1/2 inches to the left.

I still have it, although a Commander size M1911 will carry or conceal as well as the M431.

I have, in the later years, heard both good and bad about Taurus and believe one has to take chances like I did and maybe get lucky.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearBio View Post
How many 38s? Was it cleaned before firing 357s?
Gun was new- Took it to the range and shot -all 8 rounds of 38s and all was good. Open a new box of Remington 357 and the first shot and it blow up. My lawyer also took the box of 357 and they send it out and checked all the ammo and all were loaded ok. All this took 2 years with my lawyer.
The story can be found on line at my e-mail
martyslures@yahoo.com Put in Taurus gun blows up. Let me tell you now --i got hell from some guy for posting this !!! He must of worked for Taurus. You will see what he said and what i said. It was a fight to the end.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:11 PM
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My only Taurus was a four inch five shot 44 mag on a medium frame and it worked just fine. The trigger was gritty and the cylinder wanted to drag from time to time. Ultimately the gun was sold b/c the reason for owning it had changed and I no longer needed something with a caliber that heavy.

My opinion is they are okay but you take a chance with them. I have no experience with their customer service.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:42 PM
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I've got a CIA and Tracker.

The CIA is my wife's nightstand gun and never gets shot. It has a trigger no worse than my 642... maybe a bit better. I've had the Tracker as a recreational range gun for quite a few years. Shoots well... never a hiccup.

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Old 01-20-2014, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by S&W357 View Post
I'm not going to say anything, Picture tells a 1000 words !!!
Ummm.... I've actually seen similar pictures involving brands other than Taurus...


I have an '82 vintage 669 I bought in '09 (IIRC). Only put a couple hunnert rounds through it before I discovered S&W but no issues. As nice & crisp as a P&R Smith? No, but none of my S&W were $300 OTD. I was aware of Taurus' spotty QC & CS issues but I figured any issues would have been already resolved after 27 years.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:16 PM
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Exclamation Rhetorician Reply

Hello all:

Well when a fellow asks for an honest answer the S & W bunch will sure give it. I do appreciate your comebacks.

I guess it to be about 50 / 50 on the "take it or leave it meter." I also suppose that there is no changing "you get what you pay for" rule.

Thanks again. And thanks for being real friends and telling "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" as you see it.

I am proud to be a member here.

"My two cents worth!"
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:28 PM
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I've only ever had one, The Judge. I liked it ok, just didn't shoot it enough and decided I wanted something different eventually. Mrs shooter's son had a PT111 and carried it for a long time and shoot the heck out of it. Eventually it had to be retired because of some problem but he had put thousands of rounds through it by then.

Like anything, do your research and go with what you believe.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:24 PM
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I have owned several Taurus guns, and had some bad experiences with a couple of them. Taurus is improving lately, but they still aren't there yet, IMO. ANY gun maker can put out a lemon...but how they deal with it is what matters to me. Yes, Taurus does have a lifetime warranty...BUT their service is (or has been historically) abysmally slow and often didn't fix the problem on the first, or even several subsequent, trips to the factory. Taurus doesn't pay for shipping for warranty repairs, after 90 days. That is a big deal to me...S&W does, Ruger does, Springfield does...it costs a lot to properly ship a handgun, and any manufacturer that won't support their product won't get my business. Also, Taurus won't sell parts to private individuals. Their CEO has pledged to change that, and apparently parts are more available for the 738 now, but why not just make them available across the board? I don't understand why they can't just decide to sell parts (based on inventory, of course.) Of course, in fairness, that isn't limited to Taurus...Ruger wouldn't sell me a striker for my SR9...they would sell the springs and cups, but not the complete striker. (That makes no sense.)

My first Taurus was (I can't remember the model) a titanium framed, ported, .44 special revolver. (I bought this maybe 20 years ago.) I had it for years and never shot it. Finally, when I got around to it, it failed to fire 10 times out of 10 (it had a 5 round cylinder) on the first two attempts, and then would only fire one or two times per cylinder after that. I took it to my local gun shop, and the smith there said it was badly out of time, and had several other problems as well. He took it in trade, but obviously at a loss to me. I also had a PT1911 that the thumb safeties fell off, and I found out that not all parts on Taurus 1911s (at that time, I don't know about now) are not standard and not interchangeable. I had a Judge, but I hadn't fired it (none of the ranges around here allow shotguns) so I decided to trade it in as well, and be done with Taurus products. I took a beating on them, because Taurus guns do not hold their value, or certainly didn't at that time.

I've been looking lately at the PT111 Millennium G2. That is a good looking little pistol, has decent capacity, and feels good in the hand. I don't like that it has plastic sights, and I'm not sure what options there are to replace them. I still have great reservations about buying a Taurus, though. According to the people on the Taurus forum, their service is very much improved. I did a test call to Taurus, which was answered promptly by someone speaking good English (which isn't all that common with any company any more...not intended as a dig against Taurus and its Brazilian ownership.) He seemed very knowledgeable, took his time and answered my questions. He said they would sell recoil springs (in fact, they recommended replacing them at intervals), magazines, and magazine parts, but anything else they wanted to replace themselves. He said it was for both analysis and liability reasons.

The PT111 G2 is certainly priced right...$329 at Academy Sports...while the Shield is $399 on sale right now, and normally priced at $449 IF you can find one in stock. The PT111 G2 gets glowing reviews from everyone, and it's the only Taurus I would even consider right now...and even so, I still have reservations about the support from Taurus. Until they change their policy on shipping, I just don't think I can buy a gun from them. I may pay more for a S&W, but if it has to go back for service, the paid shipping cost alone will make up the difference...not to mention that with S&W, they hold more value and, while an intangible, gives more pride of ownership.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:41 PM
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Comparing a Taurus to a Smith and Wesson is kinda like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Sophia Loren.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:57 PM
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I own One Taurus revolver, a M -617 2". This is the Taurus clone of the M681. Over the last 4 or so years I've put between 2,000 - 2,500 rounds of assorted 38 special, 38 special +p, 38 special +P+, and .357 Magnum ammo through it without and problems.

When I bought it the finish was as nice as the 686 sitting next to it in the display case and the trigger pull could best described as Rugerest, rough but nothing some dry firing or shooting would not improve.

Was I lucky and got a good product? I don't know. I do know that I will not buy another Taurus product, as life is just to short not to try and have the best you can have.

Also remember that Taurus products have a very low resale value.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:36 PM
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As long as S&W keeps producing revolvers I don't see any reason to buy one from any other brand. Hopefully the other brands stick around though because competition is good for the marketplace.

That said I do own 1 Taurus, a Public Defender Poly but it's strictly a "for ships and giggles gun" for fun at the range and I got it dirt cheap. Been reliable enough there though the fiber optic rod fell out after the 1st shot... lol.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:43 PM
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I have owned a number of Taurus revolvers and pistols and had something break on everyone of them. They do have a life time warranty which you will need. I won't own another one. I have had some problems with Colt , S&W , and Ruger handguns but nothing like the Taurus guns.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:47 PM
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the two main things about any Taurus is this, hope you never need their customer service because they don't have such a thing. second, if you sell or trade it, expect to not get a lot for it. sort of like trying to trade in a Yugo on a real car.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:52 PM
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This is like going to a Cadillac Forum, and asking for objective opinions about Yugos....
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:54 PM
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Having an FFL in the 1980's, I sold many, many Taurus (mostly model 85/94 wheelguns with some 92 series autos). Out of approximately 100-120 sold (all NIB), I returned only one to the factory; a blued 94 (22 LR) with timing issues. Not bad, I would guess.

As for "current" specimens? I cannot comment.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:04 PM
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The year before last (pre-panic) my small town LGS stopped carrying Taurus products due to increasing QC problems.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule Packer View Post
Comparing a Taurus to a Smith and Wesson is kinda like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Sophia Loren.
Sometimes yes, other times not so...

Some of the mid-late 1980's model 85 framed .38's (blued and stainless) exhibited equal (or better) fit, finish, timing, and accuracy as Smith's J-fram offerings (during the same period).

This coming from a J-frame fan from wayyyy back!
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:20 PM
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You can't ask this kind of question here. You may as well ask which is better, a Glock or a M&P. You are going to have to sort through all the dreck to glean a short handful of honest replies. The best I can say is no matter what gun you go to buy either new or used you need to check everything you can with a very critical eye for all the details. ALL new guns are susceptible to poor quality control these days and to be honest they always have. But the good news is these days it's a buyers market and they all come with some kind of warranty to cover you. Both Taurus and S&W express a lifetime warranty in writing. Inspect before purchase and test your firearm as soon as possible to insure proper function. Do your part and you will end up with a decent firearm.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc5aw View Post
The year before last (pre-panic) my small town LGS stopped carrying Taurus products due to increasing QC problems.
The two local gun shops I frequent still carry Taurus products, but they don't recommend them. I've heard them tell customers exactly that, who were asking to see a Taurus.

One shop provides a lifetime warranty of their own on any guns sold there, but they exclude Taurus guns from that warranty because they've had so many problems with them, and such difficulty dealing with Taurus. In fairness, I don't know if they've tried dealing with Taurus recently, but their exclusion is still in place. The gun smith in their shop won't work on them, because he has so much trouble getting parts.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:18 PM
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I have a Taurus Raging Bull in .41 mag. Haven't had any problems out of it. Enjoy shooting it a lot.

That being said, the trigger is not as smooth as my model 57, or even my Redhawk. Fit and finish is not as good either. It did not cost all that much, especially compared to my Smiths. But I like having a variety of guns (within my budget) and it is fine by me.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:33 PM
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I was straining to buy a 686 and a friend suggested the similar Taurus model. He. said he really liked his. I held out for the S&W though, and I'm glad I did. I think a lot depends on WHEN it was made, as they seem to have gone up and down on QC.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:05 AM
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I recently passed up a s/w ng snubnose for a Taurus tracker 455 snubnose. I feel I made a good choice. I love this gun and payed half the price. I have three s/w revolvers and also love them. This is my first Taurus and may not be the last. I can tell you that this one stays.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:10 AM
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Forgot to mention that the life time warranty goes with the gun not with original purchases like most. I have read where s/w has turned down warranty issues over this. All but one of my s/w were purchased new.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:43 PM
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I've owned 7 or 8 different Taurus guns. Revolvers, semi auto's, and rifles. Never again. At least 4 were bought new. Had problems with each and every one.

A great price is never worth the time and aggravation.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:11 PM
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We have 2 Taurus pistols: TCP 738 in 380 Auto, PT-709 Slim (9mm). Both of these are our carry guns. We've never had an issue with either, except for getting magazines. We've put a few hundred through each one. Just as reliable as any other handgun we own. We also have a Rossi 357 Mag with 6in barrel. I believe these are also produced by Taurus. Again, no issues.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
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We have 2 Taurus pistols: TCP 738 in 380 Auto, PT-709 Slim (9mm). Both of these are our carry guns. We've never had an issue with either, except for getting magazines. We've put a few hundred through each one. Just as reliable as any other handgun we own. We also have a Rossi 357 Mag with 6in barrel. I believe these are also produced by Taurus. Again, no issues.
I would buy a Taurus but not a 7 or 8 shot revolver. When
a gun company has to get 8 357 rounds in the wheel -they have to make the wheel thickness less and i know that's what happen
to my gun .... Buying a 380 from Taurus-yes,i would...
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