Are you crazy? Using a buffer on a quality blade?

I know it sounds stupid but I have a good reason. I have a 1980's knife with a name etched into it. The provenance is really interesting but this my knife now. So...somewhere it was mentioned that these etched-in owner's name can be buffed out.

Here is my blade:





As a starting point there is a comprehensive DIY video by a company that makes buffing machines and wheels. In the opening still shot the demonstrator looks enough like zoombie to make a believer out of you. You want to reach for your Zombie Gun.

Has anyone screwed up a Randall blade on a buffer? Have you successfully removed an etched-in name from a Randall knife?

And am I crazy for even thinking about trying this.

Here is the story behind the name:


In the early hours of 18 April 1942 Billie Redburn was one of the armorers aboard USS Hornet who loaded ordnance on Jimmy Doolittle's B-25 in preparation for the first U.S. air raid on the Japanese home islands. Billie was one of our heroes from the "greatest generation".

Great background. You'd like to know more about Billie. BTW He was a good friend of our rbscrim. There is a photo of "Wild Bill Redburn" in this Washington Post story.

Obituary


Billie H. Redburn VIRGINIA BEACH - Billie H. Redburn, 86, formerly of Hazleton, Ind., died Dec. 6, 2008. From his participation with the Doolittle Raid in 1942 on the USS Hornet to his presidential unit citations for Torpedo Squadron 8 during the Battle of Midway, he was always proud of his service. After retirement from the Navy as lieutenant, he pursued his passion for collecting firearms through his involvement as vice president of A&P Arms. He was a member of the VFW Post 392. Survivors include his sons, Tracy and David and his wife Nancy, all of Virginia Beach. A graveside service will be held Friday at 1 p.m. with the Rev. Reginald Burgess, Ph.D. officiating at Princess Anne Memorial Park. A gathering to honor "Wild" Bill's life will immediately follow at his home.


Trolley

EDIT:The more I think about this guy the less I am inclined to remove his name. How about a Poll? Can someone start one for me? Link it to this thread if possible. Thanks

Trolley, as you note, your knife so do what you want, but were it mine I would prefer to keep the name because of who it belonged to. Might be more valuable, too, for the name.

Maybe try to sell it and buy another to your liking?

Ask your question over at Knifetalk Forums - Forums powered by UBB.threads™ . There are serious Randall collectors over there who can help you out.

I would leave it alone.

With the HIGH prices of Randalls I would not take a chance on "I did it all myself". (quoted from an old Brownell's catalog) I would contact Randall and ask if THEY could remove the marking for a price.

You will have to pay for the buffer and then take the chance of damaging your knife. Before doing anything, why not call the Randall company in Orlando and ask them if they can remove the etching. Randall offers a refurbishing serivice on their knives and would be the most qualified ones to do the work. Even if they can't/won't do it, its worth the chance. You have a beautiful blade and its worth the price of a call.

Charlie

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SWCA # 2294

It is your knife, but given the provenance, I think I'd be inclined to leave the name on it.

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Not in jail.

You have mentioned twice..."Am I crazy".
If you buff out that Randall....the answer is yes.

OT a bit, but I can't help but wonder why the knife didn't stay in his family.

Removing the provenance is a far greater sin than risking damaging the blade, in my opinion. There are thousands of Randalls out there but that one was Billie Redburn's.

Sometimes we're not owners of particular objects as much as we are caretakers. That knife may be priceless to one of Redburn's grandsons someday. Removing his name only makes it just another Randall.

If you truly want one to make "your own", why not start with a new or unpersonalized one?

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SWHF #448

It will p%$s Rick off, I bet. I know it is yours and everything, but really?
You knew what you were buying!




Patrick

Given the provenance, I would try to sell it to a collector. Then I'd take the money and get in touch with one of the Randall dealers over at Knifetalk Forums - Forums powered by UBB.threads™ and get a new Randall from him. They can get you a new Randall, made to your specs, in months rather than the 4 year wait if you order from Randall direct, and at the factory price. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Yo Patrick! Woman aren't the only ones that change their minds. And all.

Besides, I am involved in some really deep discursive thinkin' here, ya no! So don't ruffle my thinkin' nun.

Trolley

RBScrim posted the following on Billie Redburn some time ago. This might give you a little background on the man and the knife. I hope RB (Rick Bowles) doesn't mind me re-posting it. It's a great read.

I wrote the following article for the Randall Knife Society a few years ago. This article presents a man for whom I had the utmost respect. It also relates how I was introduced to Randall Made knives over forty years ago. That day over Redburn's would begin my involvement with Randall knives. In 1981 I began doing scrimshaw on and for Randall knives that has lasted thirty-three years. I became a Randall knife dealer two years later and I've been fortunate to have designed two knives that carry the iconic Randall trademark.

REDBURN

Randall Made knives have a mystique, history and following that, in my experience, is unprecedented. Time after time I hear folks describe their emotions regarding Randall knives with a reverence that is usually reserved for a beautiful woman or a new born child. I experienced this for myself back in the 70s while visiting an old gun collector friend of mine. Then 60 years old, give or take, Billie Redburn was a tall slender man with a full head of white hair and a matching beard and handlebar mustache. He was proud of the fact that he still wore the same size jeans that he had worn in high school. Like one of his idols from an old western movie, Billie was always dressed the same outfit. His 20X silverbelly Stetson was worn and dirty and sported a rattlesnake band. The remainder of his standard apparel was as you would expect, plaid shirt with yokes front and back, Wrangler jeans and handmade boots from a small shop in Texas. The boots were cowhide, not some exotic critter but they did have custom silver toe and heel caps. His hand tooled belt carried a silver tip, keepers and buckle. The waistband on his right side always, and I do mean ALWAYS, bulged with an ivory handled pre-war National Match Colt .45 auto. Any handgun that Billy would or could possibly ever carry was equipped with ivory grips like General Patton, another hero of his. In the watch pocket of his jeans rested his model 110 Buck folding hunter which, like his guns, had been fitted with ivory scales by knifemaker P.J. Tomes. Billie was an old school collector. He only added to his collection, he never sold. He still had the first gun he'd ever bought, a martially marked Artillery model single action army Colt that he had pulled from a pickle barrel full of surplus handguns and for which he paid five dollars. He also still had his first "real" knife. In his kitchen, next to his sink was an oversized wood cutting board. Above this, firmly stuck to a magnet that had been secured between the cabinets was a six inch belt knife with a stag handle. As my hand was uncontrollably drawn to the seemingly misplaced tool I asked Billie "what the hell kind of kitchen knife is this"? That's a Randall knife, he replied, in a tone of respect that, prior to this, I had only heard him use while oiling his 1911 A1 SINGER government model .45. I pried the carbon blade from the magnet and as the right handed stag found it's proper seat in my hand I instantly noticed the heft and balance of the knife. I wanted to cut something.... It was magical! My eye was drawn down the blade from point to hilt. There was no hint of rust though it was stained in spots from years of cutting everything from fresh juice oranges for breakfast to Sunday's dinner ham. Billie believed in using his tools. Then, as I turned the knife back and fourth with my hand, never changing my grip on the old yellowed pinned stag, I noticed the name in two lines, bracketed by scimitars, deeply stamped on the left side of the blade. Randall Made Orlando Florida I said out loud. Without realizing it, I heard my own voice adopt that same respectful tone. "You like that" Redburn said? Yeah, I answered quietly, my voice still in respect mode ... now that's a knife. Come with me he said, I'll show ya something. Billie was a retired Navy man. He had been an armorer aboard U.S.S. Hornet and spoke with great pride about how, in the predawn hours of April 18, 1942, he had loaded the bombs on Jimmy Doolittle's B-25 in preparation for the first U.S. air raid on the Japanese home islands .
He still kept most of his possessions, with his gun collection being the most notable exception, in sea bags which he called his Amelia Earheart luggage. It was as if he half expected to be called back to his ship at any moment. Laced up and locked, he kept everything locked with tiny pad locks, they lay about the spare bedroom which, before her death, was his wife's sewing room. I followed him into the room and watched as he walked straight to one of the olive drab bags resting next to a well worn recliner. As he sat he pulled a tiny key from his pocket and lifting up the sea bag he inserted the key and opened the lock. I couldn't help but wonder if that one key fit all those little locks or if this key was special, residing in his jeans pocket with other required items such as his pocket knife, truck keys and plastic, clamshell change purse. I soon had my answer as the lock dropped and the bag opened to reveal it's treasures. One by one Redburn pulled Randall knives from their canvas hideout. Each still in it's sheath, he tossed them unceremoniously on the floor. The knives piled up on the brown shag carpet until the sea bag lay flat and empty next to what I guessed to be around thirty Randalls of varying models, handle configurations and blade lengths. Redburn glanced my way. "One knife won't do it all, you need a bunch of'em" he said as a wry grin began to grow under his white, handlebar mustache. Like I said earlier, Redburn liked to use his tools. Several of the knives were handled in ivory, several more carried stag, a few in leather and poking noticeably out of the pile was a massive Bowie with a beautiful burl walnut, commando shaped handle. I grabbed the Bowie. Why is it that boys of any age love knives and the bigger the better? "That's a Raymond Thorp Bowie" he said, as if I should have known who Raymond Thorp was. We spent the remainder of the afternoon in that room. I would pick one from the pile and while cleaning the green stuff from the hilt that had accumulated from years of storing it in it's sheath, Redburn would educate me on that particular model. I was hooked. I had caught the bug from Redburn with which I would remain infected for the rest of my days. As I finished cleaning the last Randall, a model #1-8" with ivory and a compass in the butt, I asked the question. "So Billie, what's a knife like this gonna cost me"? As we began to put the carbon steel treasure back in it's GI safe, Redburn pulled a small yellow catalog from a side pocket of the sea bag and handed it to me. "Twenty-four dollars for the knife and six dollars more for the ivory handle?" At that price I had already ordered three models in my mind when I noticed Redburn's mustache start to twitch again. "Yup, he said, that ain't a lot of money now but it was a bunch back in 1950 when that catalog was printed"!
Billie Redburn, my friend of thirty years, passed away peacefully yesterday at the age of 86. He was a hero of the greatest generation. He led a full life and he will be missed. Good ride cowboy.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Next weekend is the KnifeClub.org - HOME, maybe an hour or so from you. It is small but more then likely a few Randalls for sale. Might be on the pricey side, but you can actually handle them. Bring cash, they may move on the price a bit with folding money under their nose. Might trade, also.

If you don't want to take a chance on the drive, let me know what you might be interested in. I can let you know what is there and how much.

Patrick

BIG QUESTION: Why did Mr. Redburn's family lose, give/sell his knife ?

The very second you touch that blade to a buffer or grinder you dramatically decrease the value.
With the provenance on that blade I feel sure you could sell it to a collector and have more than enough to purchase another one without such a stellar history.
But, it's your knife....

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John

Don't do it.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

The only thing that would matter to me is losing that much material off the blade. Did you buy the knife to use or to sell? If you bought it to sell then those whining about "damaging the value" are right. If you bought it to use, as God and Randal intended, then just use the thing and stop fussing over how it looks.

Like many things, Randall knives fall into the category, "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand." I truly don't understand the mystique given to a thing like this. Does it cut better than other knives? No. So why make a fuss over it? Ah, well, it's not for me to say. If you like it, that's all that matters.

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Freedom isn't free.

Why remove the name of a true American hero?

Some collector would give top dollar for it.

Then you could buy what you want.

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

Yo! Forums are for just these kind of questions. I don't however like rants Even like ones. Find the delete button and please give us all a break. And it is you that is whining not me!

I am done with my little rant now. Excuse me. I am usually more like a Southern gentleman.

Another vote to leave it as is. Maintain the history and memories.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

I would have to honor Lt. Redburn by treasuring, and probably using, his Randall.

There are continuities that should be preserved, to my way of thinking. For me objects like that have spiritual value, if that's not too loaded a term.

Still, it's yours to do with as you wish.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Trolly..

Get on the phone call Randall here in Orlando.. ask to speak to Jason.. ( Grandson of Bo. ) he can answer all your questions..

Myself.. I would leave it as is.. It seems its a piece of history as it were, and we all know you can erase history, but you shouldn't try to change it

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

I would to have that Randlell! I would tell everybody I could about Billie Redburn.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Somebody should give you a good *** kickin' for even thinking about removing that man's name from his knife.

As others have asked....why isn't it in his family?

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'Merica!

Here is a thread with another Redburn knife.
Smith & Wesson Forum - View Single Post - Randall Made Knives - My newest addiction. (Pic Heavy)

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

Seriously??? You have Randall with a WWll's hero's name on it and you are thinking of taking a buffer to it??

I thought you just pulling our leg with this post!!

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

He had a bunch of them, maybe collecting Randalls, so the family more likely than not had their choice of knives to pick from. BTW I just saw that a few other knives with his name on them were sold. Five minutes later and I can't find it.

Well that is your answer G-Mac

Trolley

buffing that knife is like rebluing a registered mag because someone had their name engraved on it from the factory. what ever, it belongs to you.

Here is another picture of the guy. Owning one of this character's knives....? Gotta keep it. Yea.

Interesting. I support your position to do what you want with your knife and you rant at me to go back and delete my post? Amazing.

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Freedom isn't free.

I would definately NOT remove his name. Instead I would get all the data and including pictures I could of him and put it with the knife.

I have a few Randall knives that I use when hunting quite a bit, but if I had that one I would not use it.
I would make a display case for it with some of the better pictures Redburn in there with the knife and sheath.

I would get another Randall to use...

I am rarely sentimental about things. My things...forget about everyone else's.
The knife should stay as is. Plenty of others available.
Plenty of collectors will make offers.

Or..was this a troll thread ?

I wouldn't remove that name. It adds a huge amount of value to the knife.

I'd like to address a few of these concerns. First I'd like to thank those that have acknowledged my friend's service. Billie was a real cowboy, a true collector and a genuine hero of the greatest generation. Billie is survived by his two adult sons, both of whom are in their fifties. Neither have any children and neither son is particularly interested in knives or guns. Billie had an extensive gun collection and knife collection including quite a few Randall knives. Both of the brothers have chosen to keep a couple of guns and knives to remember their father. I am helping to liquidate the remainder of Billie's collection as neither son has a background with guns or knives.

Secondly, as an authorized Randall knife dealer for over thirty years, I truly appreciate the high regard, for these legendary blades, that has been voiced by our members. Having said that, the knife now belongs to this gentleman. He can do with it as he wishes.
Many older Randall knives on the market have the name of the original owner etched on the blade. Having a name etched on a Randall does not hurt the value of the knife. The etching font and style aid in determining the age of the knife and though most of these names have little or no history attached to them it is another way to research the knife. In this case Redburn has a known history. Indeed he was a part of our nation's history. If the gentleman wants the name removed, and frankly I don't believe that is the case, he must send his knife back to the Randall shop. Doing anything else will ruin the distinctive Randall polish and dramatically devalue the knife.

Please don't contact me regarding Redburn's collection. The guns and knives are being sold one or two at the time. The pieces to be sold are chosen by the owner. I have offered several guns for sale on this forum and others and I will continue to do so. In fact, later this afternoon I will offer the last and I believe the most attractive of Redburn's Randall knives in our For Sale forum.

Rick Bowles

Humor is my best friend.

EDIT: An to that I'll add that I try not to take myself too seriously.

Best regards,
Trolley

Its your knife and you can do what you want. My advice as a knife maker with some connections in the knife make collector community is don't. First you WILL drop the value. I can tell if a buffer has been on a knife and so can lots of others.

#2 Believe it or not I believe my buffers are some of the most DANGEROUS tools in my shop. They look so innocent, but is you don't know what you are doing and are not extremely careful they will grab things at the speed of light and fling them somewhere. People have been injured and KILLED by buffers. Now do it on a knife. They snag corners, edges and are gone in a split second.

I'd leave it as is.
Steve W

Thanks Rick for this info . I have a #14 that I bought new back 30 years ago and I also had Randall put my name on it . I was thinking I'd have to have Randall buff my name off it before I could sell it but your info above will save me a few bucks by me leaving it on .

That for sale Randall didn't last long. Posted at 3:00 and sold at 3:01 to an administrator.
It was a nice looking knife

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Pete.

I respectably disagree that having a name etched will not devalue the price of the Randall. Unless it has some otherwise unique handle, i.e. Narwhal or something you just admire, why would you pay the same for a special knife with some obscure name etched into the blade. Also, just because it has Billie H. Redburn etched into the blade, “Why does that automatically make it collectable”. Does Randall have a Roy Jinks that will send you an authorized dealer confirmation letter. I believe their verification process would be limited to yes, this is a Randall knife, not a fake, but no confirmation it was etched, purchased or shipped to John Doe. Google any name and see what you get. Smith and Wesson guns are tangible with unique serial numbers (Corvette’s are also so documented). Randall knives, not so much. I am a Randall collector and do respect any Randall authorized dealer. Just don’t let emotion get in the way of common sense.

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Mis-Placed Texan!

That man helped to load the bombs onto Doolittle's plane and you want to buff off his name? I think I may cry.

He was a valid, colorful, part of US history.

Hint: if you find a leather-handled Model 1 with the name James Gavin on it, don't buff that one, either. Or one with Errol Flynn on it... or, Wm. Westmoreland, etc.

I don't know if Gen. Gavin or Flynn's knives bore their names, but you get the idea. If you are not a fit custodian of those knives and what they represent, just sell the knife (for quite a bit!) and buy the same basic model new. As noted, Randall's dealers may have "your" knife in stock or can get it fairly soon, as they have reserved places on his order list.

If the Randall styles and mystique mean nothing to you, buy a Fallkniven S-1 or A-1 or from their leather-handled Northern Lights (NL) line. They also offfer exotic handle materials on their folders. Prices are not cheap, but usually much less than Randall's for equivalent models.

Fallkniven is a Swedish company, but their knives are a FAR CRY from Mora and similar Swedish knives. They are more like Randalls, esp. the NL line. Be aware that their site quotes prices in Swedish kroner. They do have US dealers who sell for under "list" prices. I think you can get both models mentioned for under $200 for an A-1; the S-1 is probably more like $150.
www.fallkniven.com These knives have passed severe breakage and other tests by both the Swedish and the US military forces. Models F-1 and S-1 with optional blackened blades also have US NSN stock numbers. They are authorized for unit purchase by US air forces, all services. (Aircrew survival knives. They are quite a bit nicer than the issued knife with the saw teeth.)

If you just want a good knfe for modest cost, look at the Buck Models 105 and 119. Grohman Knives in Pictou, N.S., Canada also makes very good knives, if rather plain.

I hope you were just trying to get us to react with your question. But if you really feel a strong compulsion to buff off a name on a Randall blade, have them do it and document that event. It is physically far safer and avoids losing value.

Texas Star,

In case you missed reply #30 I will repeat that I am going to keep it as is. Wild Big had remarkable early life experiences in the war. And he seems to have appreciated guns as much as most here on the forums. Were he still alive I bet he would be a Forum contributor.

I am sorry you got upset. That was not my intention in posting this thread.


Best Regards,
Trolley

Unless you want to keep dealing with this, you might want to ask to have the thread locked or deleted. There are always those who can't be bothered to read the thread and see the numerous declarations you've made that you no longer want to remove the name (or who can't comprehend those simple declarations) or who just want to pile on. That's life on the interwebs.

By the way, that's a fantastic knife with a wonderful provenance. One small nit to pick--I don't think the name is etched in the way most would understand that term. It's most likely stamped like it is on the Randall fighter I have from WWII. But that's a technical distinction and everyone knew what you meant by "etch".

This thread has gone about as far as it can go, the OP has decided to keep the knife as is.

Thread closed.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II