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  #1  
Old 04-05-2014, 07:36 AM
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Default Brace of Joseph Egg Officer's Pistols

For your Saturday morning wakeup I offer these for pleasure. After all, this is primarily a handgun forum.























The description:

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EXCEPTIONAL HIGH CONDITION CASED PAIR OF JOSEPH EGG FLINTLOCK OFFICERS PISTOLS. SN NSN. Cal. .75. These high quality, military caliber, horseman’s pistols with 8" twist ovate bbls fitted with U-notch rear and silver blade front sights, are engraved “Joseph, Egg. No 1 Piccadilly London” in script on top flats. Each bbl has gold band at rear, and platinum touch hole. Captive bridled ramrods mount to heavy bosses under muzzles. Locks with semi-waterproof pans, bridled frizzens with large rollers on springs, back sliding safeties, and serpentine cocks, have chamfered plates with rebated pointed tails. Rear portion of plates and flat body of cocks have floral engraving. “Joseph Egg” is engraved under each pan. Dense, nicely figured European walnut stocks have horn tips, and fully checkered bag grips. Trigger guards with floral engraving on bows extend to classic pineapple finials. Rectangular crest plates with clipped corners behind breech irons, are each engraved with a horse. Stocks mount to bbls with single captive side nail with no escutcheons. Orig makers mahogany case with key lock closure, and with ebony key escutcheon, is lined in pilled green baize, and has orig paper Joseph Egg label on lid. Case contains a number of lead balls in central compartment and under one covered compartment, a second covered compartment is empty, a fine early rosewood cleaning rod with brush, scraper, and jag, early double bladed walnut handled turnscrew with brass vent pick/ blade guard, and a cleaning brush. PROVENANCE: Robert H. Haskell, III Estate Collection. CONDITION: Excellent, as found. Bbls retain 80 – 90% orig brown, silvering on sharp edges. Locks and breech irons retain a great deal of their orig case hardening color under a layer of dust and grime. Trigger guards and thimbles retain nearly all of their charcoal blue. One thimble is considerably flaked. Stocks retain nearly all their orig finish with some dull spots and a few minor marks. Bores are very fine with a few minor pits. Locks and frizzens are crisp. Safeties work. Exterior of case retains most of what appears to be an old refinish over a number of scratches and marks, and some minor repairs. Bottom board has two cracks. Interior cloth is extremely fine, with some light rubs and marks from contact with guns and accessories. Partitions are solid. Label is extremely fine, unsoiled, with two minor tears. Accessories are also very fine. A truly exceptional pair of flintlock man stoppers, by this highly regarded maker, nephew of Durs Egg, who was working at 1 Piccadilly from 1814 – 1834.




Now they are in hand, carefully cleaned, and with teeth in their jaws!



These are fantastic! I am one happy camper.


Curl
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:05 AM
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Great way to wake up on Sat. morning. Truly works of art.
Thanks for posting.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:14 AM
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Magnificent! Thank you for sharing that pair of fine art items.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:18 AM
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WOW as nice as I have seen.,., Great find!!
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:24 AM
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Here's a full resolution image of the last photo. Click image to get the big picture:




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Old 04-05-2014, 08:38 AM
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Beautiful pistols. If they had tongues to tell, wonder what tales they would tell.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:39 AM
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If I slap you in the face with a glove...will you let me shoot one of those cool old pistols??
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:09 AM
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I would HAVE to shoot them, at least once.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:33 AM
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Just awesome! I've never seen ramrods with the swing out brackets like that before. I guess because they are "Horsemans pistols", to keep from dropping and loosing them.

Some dueling pistols don't even have a place to keep the ramrod, and it is kept in the case.

Very nice score, thanks for sharing them. Ed.

Last edited by eveled; 04-05-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 04-05-2014, 01:06 PM
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Those are beautiful! A pair like that would be for dueling, right? Through the years I have seen lesser but similar and always wondered why they usually command less than old colt single actions etc. My guess is that our generations were brought up on westerns. It`s like overall, the era`s before the civil war are ignored and we fixate on the cowboys and Indian era while earlier history isn't given one part of the attention it deserves.
I own this double barrel .50 caliber pin fire pistol. A old collector friend gave it to me about 45 years ago. It has two threaded holes on the side that he thought was for a clip to wear in a sash or belt. We think it probley was built about in the 1830`s or 1840`s in Belgium or Spain? There isn't a stamping of the maker on it just a two digit number in a couple places. My friend that gave it to me surmised it could have been a pirates "boarding pistol".


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Old 04-05-2014, 01:14 PM
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Curl,
Absolutely stunning.
Do you have the book, Great British Gunmakers, by Neil & Back?
The story of the Packington collection many guns by Durs Egg, John Twigg and others of that era.
I spent years studying those guns but only via printed material. The finest gunmaking location and era ever…
Congrats!
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:17 PM
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Dazzling. Utterly stunning. And I can't tell you how envious I am!
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:30 PM
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Among the many amazing aspects, the very fine checkering really is
unique in my experience.

Beautiful....
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:16 PM
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Very, Very nice. Art Excellence.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:18 PM
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I'm not impressed. No polymer, no MIM parts, no investment cast parts, and no IL. Don't seem much good to me.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:28 PM
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Cap, those are lovely! Stunning condition, too.

I've always been fond of the name "Durs Egg"--it's so quintessentially, quirkily British.

If you get the chance, I'd love to see a picture of the outside of the case.
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:08 PM
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Absolutely beautiful!
Thank you for posting.
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:17 PM
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Very nice indeed, and as stated before a true work of art.

Ummmm, they don't have a lock do they?

Sorry, I could NOT resist.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:10 AM
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Those are magnificent works of firearm art. A cased pair like that, in that condition, must be very rare, and very expensive. Envy: I has some.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:21 AM
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After 200 years:





These photos don't do justice to the fine locks you are seeing. After 200 years they look mirror bright, in perfect condition. They will last another 200 years for sure.

More later.

Curl
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:33 AM
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Timeless beauty in every way Cpt. Thanks for posting.

How will you be storing the guns, case, accessories?
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:44 AM
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Wow! I could sit by the fire with those and fondle them for hours. Gorgeous works of art.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:48 AM
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I'd like to enlarge that picture and frame it. WOW.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:54 AM
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WOW!
Harken back to the days of:
1. An insult
2. A glove slap
3. Pistols for two at dawn
4. Tea/Brandy for one afterwards
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:28 AM
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Breathtaking. Truly.

And the condition of the locks after 200 years -- wow. They must have used some excellent steel and hardening process for these to remain so pristine.

Question: a brace of pistols for a horseman. Would they have been intended as a pistol in each hand? (Reins in the teeth, maybe?) Or to swap out for a second shot before reloading? A brace does not equate to "dueling pistols" does it? I thought those were a separate kind of animal, specifically for that purpose.

Thanks for sharing with us.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:01 PM
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BTW; Durs Egg was from the low countries, Holland I believe and a rarity as a foreigner admitted into the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers. His work had a favorable influence on London gunmakers.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:41 AM
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Thanks to everybody for your kind comments on these pieces of history. Let me follow up with a few comments to questions raised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucev View Post
Beautiful pistols. If they had tongues to tell, wonder what tales they would tell.
That really says it all. I don't know any provenance on these pistols but hope to learn what is out there.

Most will know that these are called "officer's pistols" because they were commissioned by British officers for use in service. These were not carried one on each hip like the old west. They were carried in saddle holsters draped across the horse's withers and attached to the front of the saddle. One pistol on each side.

I find this particular set to be of high interest because they were made in "military caliber". They are .75 caliber, made to shoot the same balls as the Brown Bess musket, standard British arm of the time. So these truly are "officer's pistols", duplicating the military caliber. The far more common calibers of pistols of this sort is .62 or .58. The caliber was a big motivation for my purchase.



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Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
I would HAVE to shoot them, at least once.
Now there is a real troublesome thought that's been rolling around in my head since I became high bidder. Dunno!



Quote:
Originally Posted by SDH View Post
Curl,
Absolutely stunning.
Do you have the book, Great British Gunmakers, by Neil & Back?
The story of the Packington collection many guns by Durs Egg, John Twigg and others of that era.
I spent years studying those guns but only via printed material. The finest gunmaking location and era ever…
Congrats!
Steve, no I don't have that book. I have other visual stimulants though. It has been on my bucket list for a long time to acquire a fine set like these, and it sounds like you also have an itch.

Joseph Manton, Durs Egg, Joseph Egg, John Twigg, and a few others seem to be in the pantheon.

Some sets of French parlor pistols in their "French fit" cases also draw my attention, but not like the English pistols. I am excited by the flintlocks much more so than percussion.

Another item on my bucket list is something on the order of a 16 bore breech loading double barreled howdah pistol with about 12" rifled barrels on a Jones action.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gaucho1 View Post
Among the many amazing aspects, the very fine checkering really is
unique in my experience.

Beautiful....
I am no gunmaker, but I would think it would quickly become a nightmare to accurately checker a pair of bag grips. I have seen a lot of them with less than stellar checkering. These are superb.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pawncop View Post
Very nice indeed, and as stated before a true work of art.

Ummmm, they don't have a lock do they?

Sorry, I could NOT resist.
Actually, yes they do have locks similar to what you are referring to. Each lock has a sliding safety that immobilizes the cock at half-bent. Do you see the little sliding bars mortised into the lockplates behind the cocks? Some officer's pistols go one step further. The sliding safety has a rod to engage the back of the frizzen at its bottom corner. Thus the safety immobilizes the cock and frizzen both. On these pistols the frizzens are not engaged by the safety.





Quote:
Originally Posted by kozmic View Post
Timeless beauty in every way Cpt. Thanks for posting.

How will you be storing the guns, case, accessories?
There's a question with conflicting possibilities. I want them to be displayed and not in the dark of a safe. They are too beautiful to keep hidden. However, I would prefer to keep them away from the slobbery little hands of grandchildren. Right now I have them lodged on my bar, guarded by my cannon.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooter Brown View Post
Cap, those are lovely! Stunning condition, too.

I've always been fond of the name "Durs Egg"--it's so quintessentially, quirkily British.

If you get the chance, I'd love to see a picture of the outside of the case.
Here's a closer shot of the case. I wish I had a key.





Quote:
Originally Posted by vigil617 View Post
Breathtaking. Truly.

And the condition of the locks after 200 years -- wow. They must have used some excellent steel and hardening process for these to remain so pristine.

Question: a brace of pistols for a horseman. Would they have been intended as a pistol in each hand? (Reins in the teeth, maybe?) Or to swap out for a second shot before reloading? A brace does not equate to "dueling pistols" does it? I thought those were a separate kind of animal, specifically for that purpose.

Thanks for sharing with us.
I would think these were meant to be swapped out and not to be fired "John Wayne" style . . . Fill your hands, you ***!



These truly are works of art. We are fortunate they have arrived in the 21st century in such fine original condition. I am their present caretaker. They will long outlast me.

Curl

Last edited by CptCurl; 04-08-2014 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:07 PM
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Curl,
I have mentioned to you before how similar our tastes run.
I'll confess again that I envy the fabulous British arms you possess.

I thought you might be interested in an amusing coincidence-
I held an almost identical brace by Durs Egg about 1966-67. At first glance, I thought these were the same pistols.
They were for sale at Dean's Firearms in Atlanta. I was a teenager and my mentor, Eddie Pitt, worked there and let me hold them. I was awestruck. He told me he could get them reduced to $800 if I wanted them. I simply couldn't swing it since my shooting and reloading was self-financed by working afternoons, Saturdays, and summers while supporting a car, and I made minimum wage or less. They stayed there many months, and I gazed at them every time I went in.
Did they cost you more than $800?



My first foray into British arms might also interest you-
Since I couldn't afford the real deal, I ordered the Ruger Farquharson knockoff, The No. 1, as soon as I had read the first article that came out about it. It took nearly a year after ordering for Dean's to get it in Oct, 1967. It was serial number 489. Cost $265, which was full MSRP.
I had ordered it with sights and the Alex Henry forend. It came in with no sights and the long forend, so I was never really happy with it.
About 1968, I saw an ad in the paper for a double rifle. Called the guy, and we met in a parking lot. It was a rather plain, well used Rigby boxlock .303 with 5 rear sight leaves, frosty bores and the stock was broken/repaired at the wrist. We traded even for the No.1.
After shooting it, I learned the firing pins would stick badly also, which is probably how the wrist got broken. It was HARD to open after shooting. Eddie sent it off to Pachmayr for a new stock. He copied the old stock in English walnut and did a superb job of matching the forend. He rust blued the barrels and left the action alone. It still bore faint traces of case colors. However, he failed to fix the sticky firing pins. I had a couple of local people attempt to fix them, but they always continued to be a little sticky. The Pachmayr trip cost more than the $265 I had in the No.1.......
During the recession of the early 70s, I was supporting the wife and child, and a man fell in love with the Rigby. He had closed a retail gun shop and had many NIB guns of all types left from his inventory. He made a trade offer of several quality NIB guns and an S&W or two which was WAY too good to refuse, and the Rigby left me.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:35 PM
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Lee,

You should have bought the pair by Durs Egg. Yeah, $800 was a lot of money in 1966-67, but it would have been a great investment considering what that pair is worth today. Mine were quite a few multiples of $800. Do you remember the caliber of the Durs Egg pistols?

Your Rigby .303 sounds like it was about worn out. That is not unusual with .303 doubles. I think British officers bought them and ran through thousands of rounds of government ammo with them. However, there are some good ones out there yet. You should beat the bushes and find one. It's never too late. This evening I just posted a thread featuring a splendid Holland & Holland .303 I bought in May. It just popped on the market, and I was there.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearm...ble-rifle.html

Are you doing any British guns now? I must say they are getting out there in terms of prices, but the same can be said of vintage Smith & Wesson revolvers. You have to run and jump on the train or it will pass you and leave you behind.

Thanks for your comments.

Curl
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Old 11-29-2015, 11:40 PM
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Pistols for two at dawn---Tea /Brandy for one afterwards
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:19 AM
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Here are a few more photos of these pistols taken earlier this month when a friend was visiting:

















Thanks for all the kind comments.

Curl

Last edited by CptCurl; 11-30-2015 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:09 AM
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It seems strange to me to find these beautiful pistols in a category labeled simply "Firearms & Knives - Other Brands".

They are worthy of a category all their own.

"Other Brands", indeed.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptCurl View Post
Do you remember the caliber of the Durs Egg pistols?
Almost 50 years later, it sticks in my mind that they were also .75 caliber. I think I remember thinking "3/4 of an inch!" and Eddie mentioned the fact that it was the musket caliber.
They were shorter than those by maybe 2 inches.
Maybe they were for off duty concealed carry???

I failed to say yours are magnificent! Well done, old sport!


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Are you doing any British guns now?
Nahhhhh............ S&Ws are quite efficient at keeping me broke.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:44 PM
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I sure would like to see the ones by Durs Egg that you mentioned.

You know, pistols made in this caliber are not common.

Curl
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:09 PM
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Any idea what velocity that .75 caliber pumpkin ball came out of the muzzle at, back in the day? Had to be a good thump! Beautiful pistols!
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:33 PM
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How is it that I missed this thread in April 2014? I've got to pay more attention! As usual Curl, excellence of subject, pictures, and description.
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Old 11-30-2015, 06:22 PM
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That is one strikingly beautiful pairs of pistols and you are rightfully proud of them. I had the pleasure of appraising a Durs Egg "muff" sized pistol that was brought into the Arizona Collectibles show this year and I can tell everyone that handling one of these is quite an experience. The quality and craftmanship is unparalleled for this period and IMO would be difficult to duplicate today.
Jim
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