What Model Was It

[fixdit]

Hello, I am new to this site and forum so give me a little time and I'll get up to speed, need to finish my profile as well. I am looking for help on identifying a shotgun I came across years ago and as I recall it a S&W, possibly in 20ga flavor. What I recall the most was that the charging system was actuated by gripping the barrel (which was knurled at the forefront) and pulling the barrel back to charge the gun.

My question is: was this an S&W and if so what model or does anyone know who made this "widow maker" and what models?

Thanks in advance folks.

fixdit

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum. My guess is that you are referring to a the Remington Model 11, which was a modified Browning mechanical auto-loading shotgun of the early 1900s. In order to load the first shell into the chamber, you had to pull the barrel back to load. There was no knob or handle on the bolt to do so in this model.

[fixdit]

That sounds like the gun. Thanks. It was over 20 years ago and he must have showed me other guns as well since the S&W did not exist in this style. I remember thinking "wow, if an idiot used this he could blow his head off" we had bb guns like this as a kid in SD.

Appreciate the info looking forward to reading and posting more in the future, always willing to learn even at my age.

fixdit

[rjb1]

Respectfully beg to differ. Remington 11's had a short "handle" at the front of the bolt that you pulled to feed a round.
I don't know what the make and model of the barrel-pulling shotgun was, but it wasn't the Remington 11.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by rjb1

Respectfully beg to differ. Remington 11's had a short "handle" at the front of the bolt that you pulled to feed a round.

I may be mistaken, but I thought that I had read the first Remington Model 11s did not have the bolt lever and after it was determined too dangerous, the handle was added??

Anyway, here is another one - the Winchester Model 1911 and I am sure that one does not have a bolt lever.

[Jim Watson]

The only American made gun I know of that depended on a knurled barrel and got the monicker Widowmaker was the Winchester Model 11 as shown in post #5.
The Browning patents for the Auto 5 were so comprehensive that they covered the cocking handle completely and Winchester had to do away with it. They later came out with the more conventional Model 40 after that patent ran out, but it was so bad that they exchanged all they could recall for Model 12s.

A Remington Model 11 is just a Browning A5 as made by Remington instead of FN. You can even find "American Brownings" made for Browning by Remington after the Germans invaded Belgium and took over FN. Blue Book says 1940-1947, but I bet most of those were before and after we entered the war. But some sales to the Army for such things as aircraft gunner training - skeet will teach you about lead - and POW guards.

[DWalt]

It has to be the old Winchester Model 11 shotgun if it has the knurled barrel. It was a very strange design, but necessary to get around Browning's patents. Read all about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1911

[Skeetr57]

And Winchester patent lawyers had prepared those patents for John Browning, just as they had for the Win. M86 and all Browning long guns to that time. When Browning insisted on a royalty arrangement and Winchester declined, they were stuck with trying to work around the Browning patents they had prepared.

[Model 19 6"]

I am sure we are talking Win 1911sl. I have 7 of them including the one my grandfather bought new in 1925. They were only made in 12ga.