I recently acquired this very strange copy of a S&W revolver. The gun doesn't make any sense to me, and I'm curious if someone else might have some ideas about it. Here's some details:

- It looks like a typical Spanish copy of a S&W revolver, but it's marked "Made in France" in several locations. (Twice on the barrel and also on both sides of the frame. The builder didn't want you to miss it.)

- There's no manufacturer's name anywhere, just markings that are trying to look like Smith and Wesson's.

- The build quality is pretty good. The hammer, frame, trigger, cylinder, and barrel are all serial numbered. The grips were checkered by hand. Both double and single action feel smooth. The timing is good. It's a nice little revolver, except for two things:

1. The rifling was horribly botched. Imagine the worst machining job possible, and that's what this looks like. The last few inches of the bore are pretty good, but the first few inches are a disaster.

2. It's not chambered in anything that I can recognize. The cylinder was cut perfectly for 38 S&W brass. It headspaces for 38 S&W brass, too. BUT, the cylinder throats are way too small for 38 S&W. The throats are only 0.340" - 0.345". Even though the 38 S&W brass fits perfectly, there's no way to chamber a loaded round because the bullet won't fit in the throat because the throat is too small. The forcing cone is 0.365", and the barrel bore is 0.330". That's way too small of a bore for 38 S&W.

Based on the bore diameter, I'd say that the gun was built for 8mm Lebel revolver, but the cylinder dimensions are not even close to 8mm Lebel.

My best guess is that the revolver started life in 8mm Lebel, and someone tried to convert it to 38 S&W at some point. But, they hopelessly screwed up the barrel and just give up on the project.

Any other ideas?

Attached Images

	Frame_013.JPG (15.2 KB, 280 views)
	Frame_014.JPG (15.4 KB, 226 views)
	Frame_015.JPG (26.0 KB, 217 views)
	Frame_016.JPG (13.8 KB, 210 views)
	Frame_017.JPG (29.7 KB, 223 views)

Hang it on the wall!

__________________
S&WHF 366

It was never meant to be fired, it was meant to be discarded in full retreat, or surrendered.

__________________
Not in jail.

Make a good wheel chock.....
Seriously, don't shoot it.
Might blow your hand off.

Chuck

__________________
They hold no Quarter

Looks like a Pashtun Special to me.

Larry

You need the book "handguns of the world" I have one somewhere. The book "cartridges of the world" May help to cross reference it too.

The 8mm caliber in rifles varies between .318" to .323". For some reason I'm thinking 9mm? To me they round off the decimal size and call it 9mm.
But the diameter can vary like the 8mm.

I may be wrong but the letter in the logo appears reversed. Not sure.

Could it be chambered in 8x27R Lebel?

Thanks for the replies.

- Yes, the "R" is backwards over the fake trademark. But they got it right when they spelled "FRANCE" in several places.

- 8mm Lebel Revolver (aka 8x27R) takes a 0.330" bullet, and it's a French round. Those two details are what got me down the 8mm Lebel path. But I just looked it up again, and that round has an OAL of 1.457". The cylinder on this revolver is only 1.173" long. There's no way that cylinder, or frame opening, ever worked for 8x27R. That leaves me a little more confused about the history of this gun.

- I won't own a gun that I can't shoot; so I made a custom round for it that works quite well: 000 Buck over 2.2 gr of Trail Boss in a 38 S&W case. OAL 0.913". The trick is to use the sizing die to swage the bullet down while it's inside the case. The final result looks like a wadcutter, but with a 70 gr lead ball that goes 600 fps. It's a very mild load, but it prints a 4" group at 15 yards. Just something to do for fun.

The Spanish s&w clone is a 32-20?

I saw an ad for 200 French WW2 rifles. The ad said "only dropped once"

I think it'd make a great hummingbird feeder. First, paint it in bright primary colors...yellow and red work well...to attract the birds. Fill the chambers and barrel with sugar water. Then hang it outside over your porch, deck, or patio.

Knowing it was French made, I think the caliber is .38 Reluctant. This would account for the case size and smaller bullet size. This revolver is for when you are only 'thinking' about shooting someone. That also accounts for the backward R above the logo. I too wouldn't own a gun I wouldn't shoot. I'd say when you do shoot it, put it at about 10 feet ft so you're sure to hit it.

All in all it's pretty cool to have and to shoot, glad you made ammo for it. This gun should start many a conversation also. Good show.

__________________
Endeavor to persevere. <><

There are two different diameter 38 caliber bullets one is the larger 38/200 & 38s&w. And the smaller diameter 38 special.(357")

There was a great buy on the unissued/refurbed French MAS 49/56 Commando Rifles in 7,5mm French. These were offered in boxes with all there accessories. They were refurbed in [92]. These awesome rifles in light gray park were selling for $189.
I think they were either reworked French 49's in 1956 or reworked 49/56's from the nam war.

Just some French gun history.

Southern Ohio Gun coined the "Commando Rifle" on the 49/56. She looks so sweet but it's a pit bull when she sounds off.

A French club-to be used only if hindered while escaping from the enemy!