I have a saiga 7.62 that is in the middle of conversion. By the time it is converted it will be around $1,200-$1,300 total including paying someone to do the conversion. I know I could get a 5.56 rifle for that price range but then I ask myself: why would I want a 5.56 in the first place if I have a 7.62?

My reasoning is as follows:
1. Neither the 5.56 or 7.62 are long range guns so at 100 yards the power goes to the 7.62. You would get a different caliber all together for long range.
2. cost of ammo slight edge to 7.62
3. Maintenance goes to the ak platform 7.62.

I am not trying to start a fight between platforms but as a person that has often looked for a reason to "need" another gun. Why did you take a 5.56 platform over an 7.62 platform?

aside from the saiga/ak I know ruger & sig make a decent 7.62-the sig being too much $.

Beg to differ....The 7.62 is a long range gun..7.62 will do anything the 5.56 does and better...keep the 7.62....,TIN.

Up until 12/2012 I owned a pair of pre-Ilion Bushmaster ARs in 5.56 and a pair of Bulgarian AKs in 7.62. When the panic hit, I watched .223/5.56 ammo spiral upward from ~$300/1,000 round case to $1.00-$1.49 per round at the peak (when it was available). During the same time, Russian 7.62x39 went from ~$249/1,000 round case to a top price of $349/1,000 round case. Economics don't get any more basic than that ... both ARs and their .223/5.56 ammo were sold, and I kept the AKs while adding x39 as $ permitted. I will never own an AR rifle again, nor anything chambered in .223/5.56.

__________________
I'm with the banned ...

The Russian Izmash Saiga is one of the best, the most accurate sheet metal semi-auto rifles I ever shot on the ak/akm platforms. Next to my Chinese sks which is a different platform.

My Saiga in 308win with its 16" barrel using surplus south African 308 ball ammo at 100 yards will shoot 1 1/2" groups with no scope. My saigas in 223rem I haven't shot for accuracy yet but I expect the same groups maybe tighter. My 308 Saiga was $289 and my 223 Saiga was $259 when they were first offered. Mine are still in there orginal condition. The reliability and dependability is unmatched and the accuracy is awesome.
My state banned the 7,62x39 semi-auto rifles the only one we can own is the sks so I'm limited. The brand new Russian Izmash Saiga is the hottest thing to hit our shores ever since the sks arrived here. Sorry I can own the black evil rifles too.(ar)

The shooters with there saigas with 16" barrels in 308 win scoped are ringing gongs at 450yards. It makes me think at what distance does the 308 with the 16" barrel fall off accuracy wise and how far can the 22" barreled Saiga in 308 win shoot accurately?

I wouldn't put it up against an m14 but for a mass produced brand new Russian Izmash Saiga that's costed under $300 at the time it sounds like a great hunting rifle, target rifle or plinking rifle. You will never wear it out with its chromed lined bore and chamber.

5.56 is capable of longer range, greater accuracy, it weighs much less so you can carry more, and premium fragmenting and expanding self defense loads are much more available.

However, 7.62x39 rocks at close ranges and Hornady SST is available to load in your home defense and hunting magazines. I've relied on an AK for as my primary long arm in times past and would do so again.

I own, shoot, and love both. I collect for the AK series but if I had to walk out of town during SHTF I'll be taking the M4 for weight savings and range.

I have both and like both. As FunkyPertwee mentioned they have different strengths.

I have two ar's, one in 5.56 and the other in 7.62x39. Both are as accurate as I am. The 5.56 sport a nice scope and is highly accurate out to 600, the longest range in the area off a bench it can ring a gong all day long. My 7.62 sports an eotech and ring the 300 yard gong just as effectively, but with a non-magnified optic I am not able to hit with any regularity further out. I cannot say for sure that the 7.62 is less accurate but I can tell you that the bullet drops much more rapidly as the range increases. While it is nice to have both calipers, if I was forced to choose only one I would keep the 7.62. The 7.62 has proven to be a great deer drive gun over the years. I have never hunted with the 5.56 because I just to not trust the caliper.

I'm thinking the 223 Saiga to hunt varmits and small game. The 223 55gr SP round should handle it.

The Saiga/sks in 7,62x39 can be used for up to coyotes with the 123gr SP bullets and up to deer sized game using the very accurate 154gr bullets.

The Saiga in 308win can be used for deer and bear with up to the 168gr bullets. Any higher bullet weight isn't recommended in any semi-auto rifle.

I was never fond of the expensive black rifles nor the 223 round. But when I seen the new Saiga in 223 for just $259 when the 223 Ammo was $99/1,000rds it's another cheap rifle/caliber to shoot.

Of course I reload now using a progressive press.

I'm in the heart of black bear country with a 223 rifle? I just strap on the 44mag.

I used to love the hell out of my WASR...until I got my first AR. The platform feels archaic in comparison and I can practically take down an AR blindfolded.

In terms of caliber...I love the extra heft of the 7.62 for stopping power, but .223/5.56 wins out in terms of availability and selection. It's a tough call--I don't think there could be a clear winner.

Great comments. I appreciate the input. I am glad that for me anyway I have no reason to go 5.56; now 300 win mag or 45/70.....I think that's a need

The reason for a .223/5.56mm is just to carry more ammo, unless you want a small varmint gun suitable for animals as large as coyotes. It is marginal on deer, although legal in some states.

Realistically, my son used both 5.56mm in M-4 carbines and 7.62mm NATO in a H-K G-3 in Iraq. He killed men with both, but sometimes had to fire additional shots with the M-4. At anything much over 150 yards, he felt the M-4 lacked stopping power. This was especially true if an enemy was behind cover, like an empty oil drum.

I do not know how far out the 7.62X39mm works well. But 7.62X54R is as effective or more so than 7.62X51mm NATO. One has to specify which 7.62mm is being discussed.

Generally speaking, I'd prefer to shoot men with something more potent than 5.56mm. Ditto for deer, let alone larger game.

Now as far as accuracy the Russian engineers at the Izmash factory where the AK 47 was developed when they designed the new Saiga sporting rifles they wanted them to be the most accurate of all the AK / AKM' s. They did it with success "but" in the process they found out the two American calibers of 223rem and 308win are a tad more accurate over there Russian calibers. They believe it's the design of our brass case.

But if we go back in the history of the bullet development we designed the 308win brass from the very accurate and powerful 300 savage. The 30-06 was copied from the 7mm mauser for its accuracy and flat shooting. We just didn't pull these ideas out of a hat. These were redesigned from very accurate rounds. The 7mm x 57mm mauser round is one of the most accurate, the latest shooting rounds there is. Using a ballastics caculator with a 125 yard zero the bullets path will vary from the muzzle to 125 yards from 1/2" to 3/4" if not less.

I believe the Russians have used the 7.62x54R round since the late 1890's and I'm not sure if it's still being used in there sniper rifles and machine guns today. I think it's the longest serving caliber in military history.

For some reason the 20" barreled sks seems to be very accurate using the 7.62x39 Russian wolf 154GR SP bullets. The norm for the standard military ammo is around 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards constantly with the 122gr fmj bullets. The 154gr SP wolf ammo seems to group less than half that at 100 yards. The 154gr bullets in the sks seems to hit the sweet spot. For new over the counter ammO with this kind of accuracy why reload?

The Russian Izmash Saiga AK / AKM Platform "AK receiver design" has been battle field proven flawless in operation for many decades in any climate and weather.

It confuses some people when calibers are mentioned by not using its full name.

223 remington / 5.56 NATO

5.45 x 39 Russian

7.62x39 Russian

7.62 x 51 NATO

308 Winchester.

7.62 x 54R Russian.

I hope this helps.

I've got a whole bunch of AKs. Love them. Not a fan of the Saiga though. Sorry. Too much time and money to convert. When they were $150 maybe but not today. Today I can get a pre ban Norinco or Kanassar Hungarian for the the $1200. Even Arsenal is cheaper.

That being said. It's 2 different things, the 556 and 7.62x39. 556 is more accurate further out. It is. That is if that matters to you.....the little holes in the paper. I shoot using red dots and try to stay as far as possible away from bench rest.

A lot comes down to people don't get the same accuracy on bench and don't know how to properly field an AK.

Anything that's manufactured by Norinco I find it top notch. Even my steel forged norinco 1911 is awesome.
Just my luck all the other ak's I looked at were the bottom of the barrel quality wise. Some were really butchered when they were imported. I think the Russian and norinco's were the best.
But when I seen the brand new saigas I couldn't go wrong.

Not quite. Bulgarian are nice, so are Yugoslav. And clearly you've never seen a Hungarian SA85

Define bottom of the barrel quality. Finish doesn't count

Oh yeah? I'm gonna come right over there and punch you in the nose! : ^)

Actually, I recently sold my beloved SKS to buy an M4. Reason? I could not find a good way to mount an optic on my SKS. Same is true for the AK47. Unless you are willing to drill the receiver, which will limit your ability to sell it later. And the law severely restricts what you can do to one of these rifles. I just decided that if I wanted a dependable battle rifle with good industry support and almost unlimited options available, I needed an AR or an M4 instead of an SKS or AK based platform.

There is no way to scope a sks. Yugoslavs did it by adding a rail to the side of the receiver.

AKs already come with a side scope rail, most of them anyway. It's been on 99% of AKs since the 70s. It's doesn't hurt the value in fact most people prefer the rail.

There is no law that restricts what you can do to these rifles.

Yes!....& I like the M1A

I scoped an sks using a mosin nagant style scopemount it's rock solid. The Hugo s used a version of the same mount in one of there sniper sks.

I've never owned a pair of calipers. Do yours not measure tolerances well? (I presume that you are really trying to spell "caliber.")

Scope mounting was an issue for me as well. I picked up the Texas Weapons System Dog leg scope rail & peep sight. I let you know how it works.

With the Saiga when it's new the action is rough. I lubed the action with moly, on the rotating bolt, bolt carrier, the receiver rails, the gas piston and reconcile spring and on the sear. After some cycling by hand to burnish the moly into the pores of the metal till it loosened up. The Saiga feels like it's a more expensive gun now. The action and trigger sear feels awesome.

I'm just used to the AR platform since the military. Just my preference.

Regulation 18 U.S.C. Section 922(r) requires that if you modify your imported semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from its original imported configutation, you must have no more than 10 imported parts from their list of 20 parts. The remainder must be USA made. That list can be found here:

TAPCO - Section 922r Compliance

So either leave it as-imported, modify and follow these restrictions, or modify and have an illegal firearm. Your choice.

Hmmmmmmm, a long range 5.56 that is better than a .308

Because someone produced a "pistol" which fires 7.62x39mm ammunition, ammunition with steel core bullets can no longer be imported. They are classed as "armor piercing". Steel cored M855 (green tip) for 5.56x45mm is still legal, because .22 bullets are exempted.

That's an Obama decision, because in the past, ammunition commonly used for both rifles and handguns was considered "rifle" ammunition.

Out to a few hundred yards 5.56 ideal. With the right ammunition that stretches to several hundred yards. Almost any commercial or military ammunition fragments at close range.

7.62x39 is a better brush and barrier buster but loses energy quickly and has terrible terminal ballistics for most ammo found off the shelf.

At anything at close to medium ranges 7.62x51 is just more weight and recoil.

My personal choice in a thirty cal is a semi-auto 7.62x54R, but 5.56/.223 is just a versatile, practical round.

Yes I know 922 but it doesn't limit anything. All the Arsenal AKs you see are all 922 compliant. So are all Century. If you're buying a factory one it's compliant. All you need is 6 US made parts, which is simple. 5 parts if it's a milled receiver.

1 piston
3 fire control group
1 handguard
1 pistol grip

That's 6 right there. But you can go even further

1 butt stock
1 receiver
1 barrel
1 mag body
1 floor plate
1 follower
1 muzzle attachment

You are not limited to Tapco junk. There are just as many AK parts makers in the US as there are AR. It's not like there's only one or two companies that make a run of parts sometimes and you have to be lucky to catch them when they do. You can have a all traditional looking AK or all tactical or all spaced out and still be 922 compliant.

That's false about 22 being exampt. The law states EITHER armour piercing OR larger than 22. They just banned 5.45x39 surplus because someone made a pistol even though it's 22.

Obama banned 5.45 not 7.62. That was banned in 1994

556 hasn't been banned. ...yet.....because it's domestic

My saigas are in there orginal condition I wanted sporting rifles.
But I wanted the ultimate, flawless in operation, Russian ak/akm receiver in a sporter version. Plus it has a quality Russian chromed line bore and chamber. Plus its brand new.

Nothing wrong with leaving it as is if that's your thing. I had a 308 converted but ultimately I believe that a FAL was better, at least when it came to mags

The correct answer is get both.

__________________
SWHF #448

Looks to me that the Ruskys thought the 5.45 was better than the 7.62. That has nothing to do with a sporting rifle, though.

__________________
Wayne
Torn & Frayed

That can be argued both ways. M. Kalashnikov was not a fan of the 5.45. He thought that the original 7.62 ball could be improved upon with more R&D. The powers that be didn't think so. In all honesty it really could have. The Yugo M67 7.62 ball was a improved design. While being fmj it had superior wound ballistics to the avg 7.62 fmj. It tumbled in flesh.

7.62 is still used along side with 5.45 in special forces units. For its penetration in thick vegetation.

The Saiga sporter semi auto is being purchased for converting them to the military configuration. There moving the trigger forward and adding a pistol grip with the ak/akm stocks. That's ok too.

I was slow at purchasing an ak47 for decades. I remember seeing cases of the Russian ak's, Russian sks's, and Chinese norinco sks's for sale. By the time I was interested my state banned the ak47. Then while going to purchase a new m1a I passed a full rack of brand new Russian Izmash Saiga rifles in 308win with 16" barrels marked $289 with two mags. I purchased it and took it to my hunting camp. After the hunt we fired it up. I never shot an ak before. This rifle is awesome. When we arrived home I went back to get another Saiga in 308 and they were sold old and the rack was filled with the new saigas in 223 priced at $259 with two mags. I was never fond of the expensive AR nor the 223 round but the brand new Saiga in 223 for $259 I'd be crazy to pass it up. I feel the 223 is a good varmit to tote gun.

Me too. I like both platforms and enjoy the differences in them.

The Russian powers to be really wanted to copy us with the 223/5,56 and they developed there 5,45x39.

Now after the 223/5,56 failed as a stopping round the US is looking for something bigger, more powerful, with more range and accuracy. Right now the m14 is being reissued to work along side the m16's. They used different rifles and calibers in every war why did they go to one caliber that can't do it all.

Well they have all that. The avg grunt gets a 5.45. For more penetration 7.62 is used. For long range 7.62x54 sniper rifle. For a nice umpf on the receiving end a suppressed 9 x39 is excellent out to 300 yards

I have em in .30 M1/M2 (30-06), 7.62 NATO, 7.62X39 and 5.56 NATO. They all have their place in the grand scheme of things. I do try to maximize each caliber by using soft nose ammo in all, this does increase terminal ballistics on soft targets. I do have ball and AP for not so soft targets as well. It was with some surprise that my M1 Garand's, one in 30-06 and one in 7.62 NATO, all three AK-47's and both my AR-15's run just fine with soft nose and plastic tip bullets.

As for the original question I think that in lean and difficult times the 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO just might be a bit more available due to our military's use of them.

__________________
Stay safe people!

The m14 in 7,62 NATO is good for 1,000 yards I could be wrong, maybe more. I have a scope with bullet drop compisation. I can dope the scope for pinpoint accuracy from 100 yards to 500 yards with no error. This is a Bushnell banner scope. I use this Bushnell trophy model and worldview model on my 338wm and my 30-06 both scopes have the same BDC option. From 100 yards to 500 yards. You use a range finder then dope the scope. Now BSA offers a scope with this BDC option for rifle in the 223/5,56 caliber too. My plan is to try it out on the Saiga in 223. I made a 170yard shot with my 338wm and I hit a dime sized target. I like these scopes with the mechanical adjustable turret. I can dial in the yardage for an accurate shot. This Bushnell scope with the BDC has been on my 338
since '94 with no problems. My rifle goes from a Woodstove heated camp right into the 10 degree weather with no fogging or loss of seal on this scope. Having the BDC option on the scope means no guessing or Kentucky windage is needed. When that trophy buck of a life time is out there at 350 or 450 yards I can dial in the yardage and make an accurate shot.

I prefer having the BDC (bullet drop compisation) option on all my hunting rifles.

5.56 = Spray and Pray

7.62 = One shot, One kill

__________________
"Life is short, hunt hard"

1. You'll have to define "long range" and what you're trying to do. 5.56 is a easily a longer range cartridge than x39. If you're looking towards 1000 yards you should get something else.

2. In non panic times, steel .223 costs are similar to steel x39. x39 always looks better because steel cases are compared to brass 5.56. 5.56 ammo is much less dependent on imports which could be banned. Remember China.

3. Is maintenance really an issue with any modern military type gun? Pretty easy to keep them going. A little oil every 500 rounds will keep an AR going forever.

Why choose only one? I have AKs in 7.62x39 (and 5.45) as well as ARs in 5.56 (and .308).

Lol! NOT!!!

I have two as well; a converted saiga 308 and the almost converted 7.62x39 saiga. I have some 22's too, so after reading all this I think I'm good for anything below 308. I may pick up another 308 like the ruger gunsite scout or go big like a 45/70 (just for fun). This is a great read thanks for all your input.

The "7,62" being compared to the 5,45/5,56 is the 7,62x39 not the 7,62/308. The sks in 7,62x39 is a short range rifle power wise. I believe it's best accuracy is out to 125yards. I'm not sure of the 5,45/5,56 & how far can it shoot accurately. I think it's around 350yards. Any further the m14 in 7,62/308 takes over. This is why the m14 is being reissued in the sand box because of it farther shooting capabilities.

You can shoot both 5.45 and x39 fairly accurately out to 400 yards. When I say fairly accurate I mean hit your target center mass not write your name on his chest.

But how much power is there out that far.

I can shoot my a 9mm pistol out to 100yds using three feet of Kentucky windage and make pin point shots on the berm hitting rocks but there isn't much power left.

Ok the heavier 75gr bullet will shoot farther and more stable in the 223. Buy the 55gr bullet has less range and accuracy due to the wind. The farther the 223 bullet goes the energy is 400ft.lbs. @ 300yds. Estimate plus or minus 100ft.lbs. One must know the guns limitations.
They called the 223 Remington a varmit caliber when it first hit the civilian market. When I think of a varmit caliber I think of the 22-250. We need a very fast bullet when hunting wood chucks. The Chuck can hear the click of the gun before it fires and run in its hole. Distance and accuracy becomes a factor with speed. I purchased my Saiga in 223 for varmit hunting. Mainly for yotes to thin the packs.