The 9mm is my favorite cartridge and I love the long history of it. I took this pic a few months ago of what I consider to be the most iconic all metal 9mm pistols ever. I grouped them in three tiers, with the top row being the most iconic of them all. Within the rows, they are in no particular order.



The four most iconic 9mm pistols in my opinion, are the S&W 39, Walther P38, Browning Hi Power, and Luger P08.

Next I went with the Sig P226, CZ 75, Sig P210, and Beretta 92.

Rounding out the group, I chose the HK P7M8, Radom P35, and Star Model B






I hesitated before I put the 39 in the top row, as its the only one in the top that never saw a World War. However, as an American pistol, it sure was important in this country. Its the only American pistol in the picture. Being that the 9mm is a European round, I think that makes sense.

Overall, I think the Browning Hi Power is the most iconic, as it was built around the cartridge, has an unmatched military pedigree within the group, and is still in production today.

I'm just curious as to everyone's thoughts and maybe what you would add and/or subtract. I kept polymer pistols out of it, but will certainly say the Glock 17 deserves to be pictured otherwise.

Thanks for looking and I appreciate your feedback.

I agree with all you stated. Nice collection.

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SWHF #448

Sweet collection !
Im also a 9mm fan but I have a touch of OCD,

Top row L-R should be the Luger (first 9mm handgun) P38 (replaced the Luger), Browning HP, and the Radom all WWII era guns (except the Luger that saw action in both WWI and WWII....Maybe a mauser Broomhandle in 9mm and a 9mm Tokorov.

The 50's 60's era Model 39 (no dash) did see action in Vietnam and comes 1st in the 2nd row, then need a Model 59 as it bridges the gap between hi cap and DA auto, then the CZ75 , then perhaps a 9mm 1911, then the Beretta 92 and a Walther P88 .
Last row should be the Walther P1, P2 (Sig P210), P3 (Astra 600), Walther P4, Walther P5, P6 (Sig P225), P7 (HK PSP), P8 (HK USP) and HK P9.

Swedish Lahti in 9mm?
Star B?
Astra 600/43?

The CZ 75/85 in 9mm is one of the best 9mm pistols out there. There the choice of the Russian spec ops.

Very nice collection!

That is an outstanding collection . . . congratulations.

I'm not very knowledgeable on 9mm pistols . . . or semi-autos in general for that matter . . . but do agree that the Browning Hi-Power is certainly iconic. In fact, I currently own only one 9mm and it happens to be a Hi-Power made by Fabrique Nationale in Herstal circa '53-'54.



If you're only going to own one, it should be a Hi-Power.

Russ

The P08 Luge is and forever will be the "classic 9", it defined the cartridge and helped make it what it is today.

It is THE 9mm handgun. JMHO.

YMMV.

The Star is there.

I didn't include the Astra or Lahti, because I think they're too obscure and unknown today.

See I don't agree. The Luger may have been the first 9mm, but it wasn't even originally designed as a 9mm.

The BHP is extremely popular and is still in production today. It outlasted the Luger by a landslide.

To me, its BHP #1 and Luger 2nd.

Yep, BHP would be my number 1 choice.
I like that 29/70 Swiss pattern too, seen one like that before....

Tier 1: Broom handle Mauser, Luger, P380 (?)
Tier 2: Browning high power, Makarov
Tier 3: Sig 226, H&K,CZ's, Berreta 92's others

M35 HiPower has to be the pistol that all other 9mms are judged by.
Luger wasn't a 9mm originally, but it is waaay cool.
Walther is a solid classic. The lockwork is a little too busy for my liking.
S&W 39 is probably one of the most beautiful pistols of all time.

The only one of the 4 I don't have in my pile currently is the 39. I had one, and I had a 439. I wish I still had at least one of 'em.
How was I to know?

Here's an interesting question- with which one of bc1023's 9mms pictured above would you choose to go in harm's way?

My pick would be the P226.

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SWHF #448

my vote is the Sig P226 also.

Great post! I agree, there can only be one top dog in this hunt, the Browning Hi Power. Second on my personal list is the S&W M-39. Then the elusive Sig P-210. Not iconic yet but a 1911 in 9mm is a lot of fun too.

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Stay safe people!

My 9mm pistols are a Browning HP, Sig P226, Sig P228 (Carry Gun) and a Sig P225/P6. I've always wanted a Luger P08 but I never found one for anywhere near the right price. I love my Browning HP but if I was going into battle it would be the Sig P228 because it's only a few rounds short of the P226 but is easier to conceal.

I also agree the Browning HP trumps the Luger because of how long it has lasted and what a great pistol it is.

I must admit while I have never fired a Sig P226 I have handled them and find them a tad too bulky,

If I had to choose 1 of the ones posted above for the Zombie apocalypse it would hands down be the CZ75, 17 rounds with one in the chamber , simple on off safety, half cock notch , DA trigger and an external hammer....bliss. (mine is a CZ85 same gun with ambi controls and cone spur).
First choice for CCW would be the HK P7 (PSP version with heel mag release)...no unnecessary buttons or switches to snag or drop something unintentionally just point squeeze shoot....Genuis !

On a side note while the Luger was originally a bottle necked .30 cal round the 9mm round was developed for the Luger to add more punch by removing the bottle neck from the case...(thats why they call it 9mm Luger)
Interesting many are arguing the benefits of the bottleneck .357 Sig today against the .40 S&W and 9mm.

Also for fun try shooting a .30 Luger then a 9mm, then a Broom handle in .30 Mauser and then a CZ52 or TT-33 in 7.62 x .25 Tokarov and see what you think...More of a "Bang Bang Bang " then "BOOM" especially when using Combloc copper clad PPSH submachine gun ammo..the resulting fireball is an eye opener.

Nice representation. I think you have them all covered.

For me the CZ is #1 with the BHP close behind. The S&W would be a distant 3rd. The rest I don't have much interest in.

I was only speaking of 9x19, so I should have made that clarification.

As for your tier 1 pistols, neither were designed as 9mms. I didn't even include the Broomhandle at all, because the gun was designed years before the 9mm was even around.

I included the Luger only because the cartridge was designed for it. However, if I were to want an iconic Luger, it would be chambered in 30 Luger, not 9mm.

In my opinion, the BHP beats them all by a good margin.

Not to mention that the BHP was a 9mm from the start. The Luger was not. That was a big factor for me.

The Luger operates through so many angles, it would make a politician "green with envy." It is not particularly reliable in bad conditions.

If I needed a pistol for combat, of those shown, I would have to agree that the SIG P226 would be a great choice. Second choice would be the Browning HP.

Naturally, if I were not limited to those shown, I would prefer to take a Glock 17 into combat.

This will be sure to stir controversy:

The Beretta is the best-looking.

Followed by the S&W.

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SWHF #448

Totally agree on the Browning...

Let the controversy begin: My vote for best-looking goes to the S&W 39.

Never owned a BHP or Luger, but I had a lovely CZ75, and still kick myself for selling it in a time of fiscal anemia. Superb pistol, and one I'd have taken anywhere.

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Oh well, what the hell.

As I recall, the original S&W 39 was termed the "Jam O Matic" by those who first purchased it . . . definitely not iconic, but it certainly improved the proficiency of the user in clearing malfunctions . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

NYET! we'll all agree your absolutely wrong, nice gun, but too big, to fat, too much butt. Browning High Power, what few realize is that the Browning High Power is the most beautiful handling pistol in the world, and its single action only is simple but elegant, and finally cocked and locked, nothing ever graced a pistolero's forefinger more elegantly, it will spin like nobody's business. Yes, Mr. Safety says it should be empty, but it is happy either way, remember, to always keep your finger out of the triggerguard, and all guns are always loaded. My favorite gun shop guys eyes were big as saucers when I picked up my first High Power in .40, after clearing the chamber and magazine, she went for a spin, NO I DID NOT POINT THE WEAPON AT HIM! What a lovely weapon! beretta, nice but not the same thing??? really, its just not....... billy

Im not trying to argue but 9mm Lugers and M1916 Prussian "Red 9" Mauser Broomhandles were firing shots in anger on battlefields long before the Browning HP was even on the drawing board.
To say they dont count as 9mms is tantamount to saying the M16 is not an iconic 5.56 rifle because it was originally designed for 7.62 x 51 Nato as the AR10 , It was also redisgned in .222 Remington as the AR15 before the settling on the 5.56 Nato.

Many iconic firearms were originally designed for different calibers such as the 30-06 Eddystone US Rifle Model of 1917 originally designed for .303 Brit , 1903 Springfield originally designed for 30-03 , FN FAL originally designed for the 7.92 x 33mm Kurz , then .280 British, then finally 7.62 mm Nato but I dont agree that makes them less iconic in their 2nd or 3rd caliber chamberings....Just my opinion.

I believe the word Icon adds a different meaning to the discussion because certainly the Luger to all of us who grew in the 50's and saw it as the top dog of 9mm pistols because we saw all the history behind them in the war films and later history TV shows. That said and to take nothing away from the Luger the Browning HP lives right up there with the 1911 Government Model 45 ACP as the all everything pistol in those calibers.

So although I still lust for a German Luger but I'm happy with my Browning HP and Colt 1911.

I concur, with only the suggestion of the m-39 sharing the space with the m-59 which was the Seal team "hush Puppy."

Its not just about age though...

If you're talking longevity, the BHP blows the Broomhandle away.

Again, its all about personal opinion. There's no right or wrong.

Not a bad pick. You choose the Corvette while I pick the Ferrari, both about as equally attractive.

Every other choice is wrong, however. From left to right, top to bottom, skipping the aforementioned 'Vette and Ferrari, we have the Walther, definitely the curviest of the offerings, but too curvy, flamboyant even, like some of those really weird-looking Lamborghinis. It's obnoxious. It's out.

Next is the BHP, the child of a 1911 and who knows what lost somewhere in the deepest bowels of Europe. The 1911, as perfect as it is, isn't a particularly sexy gun (it's like an old Chrysler muscle car that way), thus its half-breed child is out. This also eliminates the CZ, simply a wannabe BHP.

The Luger is, of course, the Volkswagen of the bunch. Quirky, charming and with a long-time diehard fanbase, but it will never be considered one of the most attractive cars...er, handguns. Sorry.

The 226? Pure function over form. A brick. A station wagon. Excellent gun but will never win any beauty contests.

CZ previously dismissed.

Early SIG. Has some kind of Mauser influence going on with the grip area. This is not a good thing. Slide too skinny in relation to large grip. Disproportioned like a bad Jaguar. Might be good tool for mixing chocolate, however. Dismissed.

Beretta- the Ferrari. Unique open slide design, beautifully curved backstrap (similar to S&W), one of few that isn't a wannabe 1911, slight barrel protrusion beyond slide implies no one would ever dare drop such a work of art, another nice curve where rear of dustcover slopes down to perfectly match front of trigger guard (the only gun featuring this), I could go on but I said I'd be skipping this one and look what I've done...

The HK. Supposed to be one hell of a pistol but it's not all that good-looking. In fact, it's downright odd-looking. No automotive equivalent. Bye.

Radom. This one is tough for me as a Polak but I'm the first to admit it's ugly. Another 1911 (Chrysler) crossed with something perhaps even uglier.

The Star is just another wannabe 1911.

That is all.

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SWHF #448

I disagree. The M39 basically started it all for both Smith & Wesson and America in the DA semi auto world. Its definitely an icon, in my opinion.

As far as reliability is concerned, I've had better luck with my 39s than I have with my Lugers. That said, reliability wasn't really part of the equation.

About sixty years ago I bought a WWII Luger in a drugstore for $20. All the serial-numbered parts matched. It would catch an ejected cartridge in the vertical position position between bolt & chamber, so I sold it to a friend about a year later for $40. Glad to double my money & be rid of it.
Live & learn.

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60-10,640-1,G30,G41MOS,1911

Honestly getting some good laughs but suspect some subtle but deliberate beehive whacking going on ha ha

1. Gotta agree, that is a nice lineup of 9mm pistols.
2. Agree again, the BHP is the most iconic. That is the pistol that for me defined the autoloader. I don't have one but it is right at the top of my wanted list. In the days before I owned any guns and when I knew little about them, I knew what the BHP was. Of course, I knew what the Luger was, too, but it was more of a curio.
3. For me, the CZ75 is the one I would most trust my life to. It fits my hand better than the Browning. it shoots a whole lot better than I do. It is also one I can afford. Those Sigs are above my pay grade, without being any better than the CZ.

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Not in jail.

All beautiful in their respective ways.

Personally speaking, I have never found a 9mm that betters my SIG 228. It many not be as aesthetically pleasing as the Luger or Browning HP, but it is a flawless machine that has served me well over the years.

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I'm with the banned ...

Very impressive collection!

Iconic class 9mm weapons? The P08 and BHM are the two that come to mind first.

My favorite of the classic 9's would have been the Browning HP till I shot my first CZ 75. The D/A Browning variant is just a superb example of a great pistol improved without a downside.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Thank you

I just felt the need to comment on the CZ 75 being a DA Browning variant, because the two pistols have little in common. The premise they're similar has always been a myth. Besides the obvious differences, the CZ's slide rides inside the frame, which is totally different from the Hi Power.

I always enjoy these type of threads and discussions among good and knowledgeable friends. I agree with OIF2 about the Browning Hi-power for serious use and also my friend Shawn McCarver that the Model 39 is the best looking and it does fit the hand quite well. Two of my closest friends carried 39's for serious use, one in LE work just after the Ill. State Police adopted them and the other as a Sailor crazy enough to jump out of airplanes into the oceans to either blow things up or diffuse other Hi-explosives. Myself I carried ,and still do,Browning's 9mm. All my best, Joe.

I've been a huge fan of the Hi Power and Model 39 for years.

I also feel that with it's utilization (military/LEO/civilian), units sold, and mainstream (movies and television) popularity, the Beretta 92/M9 has to be the most iconic 9mm for the past 30-40 years.

If I had to pick one, though, I would choose my early 1950's FN Hi Power.

[IMG][/IMG]

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Ash

NOT: best/prettiest/ best functioning/ most accurate, not the one you would NOW take to battle. We are drifting all over the place. The Broom handle Mauser (not actually designed by P. Mauser himself) hit the market in 1896 (not available in 9mm until1912) saw use in WWl, carried by royalty & many famous people like Winston Churchill. It had some unique charecteristics even today such as a mag in front of the trigger and mag capacity of 6/10/20 rounds, in earlier models. The Browning Hi Power (a fine weapon) didn't hit the market until 1935, Browning died in 1926, & it didn't start selling in the US until 1954. IMO the Hi Power was far from JM Brownings best work. That might go to the 1911, lever rifles/shotguns, or automatic military machine guns. Browning would get my vote for the best gun designer of all time.

Great thread! I really enjoyed the discussion.

I own seven of the eleven guns pictured in the OP. Of my seven I feel the SIG P210 is the finest. The fit, finish and accuracy is amazing.

The S&W Md 39 is the most visually appealing. This gorgeous gun has great overall form and ergonomics

But the most interesting 9 I have is definitely the HK P7. Great accuracy, ergonomics, conceal ability, unique design in both form and function.

Well, IIRC, the Model 39's notorious malfunctions were the subject of one of the earliest issues of Gun Tests magazine. Some have said the 39 was the reason for the creation of Gun Tests magazine.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I would say Browning wins, hands down. At least half the pistols pictured are Browning or Browning derivatives.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I personally put the CZ75/85 in front. She rocks with that DA first shot plus the reliability and dependability is unmatched. She's not finicky about what ammo I feed her. My CZ 85DB has been an excellent choice for my very first pistol in 9mm luger/parabellium.

The German pistols are ammo finicky. They can handle the 9mm higher pressure rounds or even the hotter standard ammo. I've heard stories were some guys have installed stronger recoil springs so they could shoot the hotter ammo only to have the frames crack. There's a reason the Germans installed a cross bolt on the P1. (P38 clone with an alloy frame)

The Russian '30 tokarev in 7,62x25 too doesn't get any simpler. It's a far stretch from a nagant revolver for sure. There are many countries who copied the tokarev. The yugo with there model 57'

The Swedish Lahti in 9mm is made by husqvarna is one heavy pistol.

The LLama extra in 9mm Largo is also a full size 1911 pistol and it's a large size pistol when we compare it to the star 1911 style pistols.

Not to be too picky, but the SIG 210 was not based on any Mauser. You may be thinking of certain HK designs, such as the lilttle HK copy of the Mauser HSc, called the HK P4, a convertible little pistol that could be had in 4 calibers, I thnk.

The SIG 210 was based on the Charles Petter design, the French Model 1935A.

I have handled and fired the P210 SIG quite extensively, and it feels better than it looks, it is quite thin, very ergonomic, more accurate than even an S&W Performance Center pistol, while maintaining military reliability, and that is saying something. A friend has a couple 210s, one of which has more than 100,000 rounds down range with absolutely no issues, ever. Although the "feel" of a firearm is subjective, in my experience, the only people who do not think a 210 feels just right in the hand are people who have not had experience with the pistol. If you have shot the 210, obviously, you are one of a small minority who think the 210 is "disproportioned."

The only thing against the 210 is the cost, but then again, you get what you pay for.

Edit: Some may say the European magazine release is a problem, but as it is a secondary weapon, the assault rifle being the primary weapon, it is thought that release of the magazine should not be unintentional, which explains why the more secure heel release is used, and why early Glocks did not have "drop free" magazines. That feature is/was demanded by the Europeans. Caliber is always a matter of discussion, so I suppose some may see 9mm as a disadvantage also, but I do not. Capacity is important to many, so that may also be seen as a disadvantage. SIG thought of everything, and back in about 1949, when they were developing the 210, they had a high capacity model, if I recall correctly, called the 44/16, but it was not adopted, and did not go into production.

The original extractor on the standard 39 was an issue, but the 39-2 was one of the most reliable pistols of its day. I've got both.

Like I said, the thread really wasn't about total reliability.

I'm fortunate enough to own just about all the high end, center fire pistols from around the world and I don't think anything quite equals the combination of build quality, accuracy, durability, and pedigree of the P210. There are a few pistols that can match its build quality and there are some that can even match its accuracy. However, when you combine all the qualities I mentioned, the P210 stands alone, in my opinion. It really has no equal.

I'm a revolver guy, through and through, but that collection of yours has me wondering if I'm missing something. Very nice bunch of guns you have there.

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Why, I aughta.....