I'm trying to decide what rifle I want next. I already own a handgun and a .22lr rifle. Next thing I want is a larger caliber rifle and I'm torn between getting something bolt action in .308 or similar, or a semi auto in .223, 7.62, 5.45, ect.. Budget is very very tight (ARs and similarly priced bolt actions are out of the question) so I'm thinking Mosin Nagant or SKS. Open to other budget friendly suggestions as well. Would be nice to have something that makes a good SHTF rifle just incase... But mainly, if you could only buy one, would you buy bolt action or semi auto first?

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M&P 15-22
1911

What's your budget? Once we know that, we could narrow it down for you.

If you like the milsurps, both Mosins and sks are awesome. I have a standard mosin and a PU Sniper. On the sks side, a 1954 Russian rearsenal and a 1967 Norinco in a modern tapco stock. Love them all.

Depends on if you want to go bolt action big kicker or lighter shooting semi auto. I got one of the Mosins, then the Chinese sks, then the sniper mosin, then the Russian sks. In that order.

I'd look for a nice condition No. 4 MK 2 Lee-Enfield. The US equivalents like the '03 Springfield are much higher priced.

I don't like Moisin-Nagants. They're too crude and the actions don't work as smoothly as the Lee.

One particular dealer who advertises a lot has new condition Yugo Mauser M- '98's. Also has some German-made '98's, some in nice shape.

Avoid the M-93 and M-95 Mausers in 7mm. Some look really good, but they're too old for some modern ammo and some have soft steel, and were never issued as the bolts set back on proof firing. Unless you know exactly what you're doing and know the rifles well, stay away from them. The Swedish 6.5mm's may not have that soft steel issue. I don't know. Craftsmanship was excellent.

If you can afford a used Winchester M-70 like the 1972 version or a later one, I'd buy that or Ruger M-77 in .270, .308, or .30/06. Ammo is more easily available than .303 British and I think a good hunting rifle is a better choice than old milsurps. Buy one with iron sights to use until you can afford a good 'scope and mount. I'm less happy with Remington M-700's, on both a design flaw (dangerous trigger) and quality basis. But modern Savage bolt actions are said to be very good value and quite accurate.

Still, if you can pick up a nice No. 4 .303 for under $300, it may be your best bet. Buy a couple of spare extractor springs. They tend to eventually break. The postwar rifles are usually better finished than WWII ones. But collectors are causing prices to rise and you have to be lucky to find a nice one for reasonable cost.

Unless you know what you're about, keep in mind that milsurps are somewhat risky buys. Some have mismatched bolts and have been used and stored under unknown conditions. With a new Savage, you get a warranty and know that you have a reputable brand that'll repair any defects.
But I don't know if they offer any models with factory installed iron sights. Those are probably most common on Rugers and CZ's.

I think you need to read Jack O'Connor's, "The Hunting Rifle" before you go buying rifles. It's somewhat dated (he died in 1978) but will give you invaluable basic knowledge.

If I had the choice between a bolt action and a semi-auto I'd get neither and buy a lever action.

Rossi makes good low cost rifles.

The bang for the buck value of a Mosin is hard to beat. So as far as bolt action rifles go, I'd say $250. Don't know if anything else besides the Mosin falls into that budget that also has affordable and readily available ammo. For an SKS or other semi auto up to $400.

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M&P 15-22
1911

I plan to have both a bolt and semi auto eventually, but for now I can only buy one and it'll be my last gun purchase for at least 6 months... I leaning towards the Mosin as I feel the slower rate of fire will help me focus more on the fundamentals and become a better overall shooter and it also has it's purpose in SHTF.

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M&P 15-22
1911

These rifles you are suggesting sound like great options but they are at minimum 3 times the price of a Mosin, and also way out of my max budget even if I wanted them. Ammo is also far more expensive. As I said above I feel the bang for the buck value of the Mosin is hard to beat. The more affordable ammo means more practice and more proficiency with the rifle.

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M&P 15-22
1911

I'm not really into lever action rifles, but I will check out a few including Rossi. Thanks for the suggestion.

I just found an SKS with full poly stock, folding stock, 6x32 scope, 30rd mag, original 10 rounder with 2 boxes of stripper clips, and 120rds of ammo for $360. Also found a Mosin in great shape for $160, which I can add in a carry case and 500rds of ammo for $140 more totalling to $300. Decisions.......

IF ANYONE CAN EXPLAIN HOW TO MULTI-QUOTE I'D APPRECIATE IT. Off topic but I tried hitting the multi quote button on each post and then the quote button on the last post I wanted to include but then it just only quoted that one post.

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M&P 15-22
1911

Cal beat me to it. A pistol cartridge, lever action carbine is a very versatile tool. Just give it some thought. Good luck.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Mosins are slowly going up in price, but if you want a better quality, more accurate Mosin, I'd look for a Finn reworked M91/30 or an even better M39.

There's also the 7.62Nato Indian 2A or 2A1 Enfield. They are very accurate and ammo is available.

SKSs can be found under $400 but I'd look for an unmodified Chinese.
There's also the Vz2008/Vz58 and packages can still be found for $400-500 that include four magazines, for a total of five, pouch, cleaning kit and bayonet!

Milsurp bolt actions can sometimes be the best bang for the buck.
But...for the less knowledgeable they can often be money wasted if
you don't really know what to look for. The Ruger American bolt action
gets better press than the economical offerings from other
manufacturers and can often be found on sale. For less than the price
of a used SKS you could have a new bolt action and a fairly decent
scope. There are some very good buys in used hunting rifles and most
will have seen little use. The push feed, wood stocked Win md 70s
usually came with iron sights are very good buys sometimes. The
.223 and .308 are the best caliber choices for obvious reasons.

Well, for about $325, you can buy a brand new Ruger All American bolt action rifle. They are getting great reviews for a "budget" rifle, and have Rugers excellent customer service backing them.

Larry

Budget/ intended use/ realistic expectations. For someone with only a few guns, I feel a pump shotgun with a 24-28" smoothbore barrel (bbl) and a shorter smoothbore bbl 18 1/2" (legal minimum without special permit) to 20" preferably with choke tubes can handle all your needs to 100 yards for the least $.#1 on my list would be an older wood stocked Remington 870 wingmaster, NOT a newer express model, OR a Mossberg or Maverick mdl 500/88 respectively. All those have an almost endless amount of aftermarket add ons from pistol grips- to overmolded rubber stocks/ heat shields (for the SHTF/ZOMBIE threat), as well as being able to hunt just about anything in most states (at closer ranges). A maverick 88 can be had new for under 200$. another good value IMO are one of the older Marlin (pre-remlin) 336 version lever rifles I prefer the 35 caliber but I reload, the 30-30 ammo will be cheaper & easier to find. A good conditioned one you should be able to find for app 350$. "MY" suggested order of collecting for someone with no guns would be : 22 lr caliber rifle, 12, or 20 ga shotgun, open sighted lever rifle, short action carbine length bolt rifle low power scoped in 308 caliber. Even though I prefer the 7mm08, the 308 has a wider selection of heavier bullets and is a NATO round & still much more common to find ammo almost anywhere. Then pistol & more specialized rifles/shotguns & before you know it you will need 2 safes. MY 2 CENTS.

Put an ar 15 on layaway. i don't see bolt gun being banned anytime soon.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, but for the price I don't think my mind can be swayed from a Mosin, I'd rather find a nice and get and 1000rds to go practice to my hearts content, than spend 3 times the price on another rifle and maybe be able to buy 40rds of ammo to hit the range with. It's when I factor in all the extras like a carry case and a decent amount of ammo that I really start to get killed on my budget and the value of the Mosin seems more appealing. I also found what I think is a really nice package deal on an SKS that I mentioned above. So I'm not sure which one I want.

In response to hangnoose, a shotgun is definitely on my list in the future, but I'm really itching for a rifle now. Intended purpose is something that allows for a lot of practice and fun at the range, and will also serve as a useful tool if SHTF in addition to my sidearm and .22 rifle.

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M&P 15-22
1911

That's like asking what should I have for lunch! Answers are gonna very from person to person even about the same rifle.

For instance, I disagree with Taxes Star about the Mosins. I think they are made just fine. They have been working since 1895, how crude can they be!? On the other hand they are cheap now, we're cheaper 5-6 years ago. Eventually the ammo will dry up or be banned. Tin of 440 rounds used to be $50 5 years ago, now it's $110 +/-. If you're going to buy one do it now and stock up on ammo right away. These rifles are generally not moa. Were never ment to be. Originally sighted in that if you aimed at the belt buckle you would hit center mass. This is a quick way to get millions of people armed without having to teach aiming at different distances. The rifles and their users that proved to be exceptional were turned in to snipers. Now these rifles have been used anywhere from 60 - 100 years....used, captured, re arsenalled, reused, recaptured, sold off and used some more.....coupled with different ammo from different countries and different lots you will have a hard time going past 500 yards. Sometimes going from a tin of ammo made in 1967 to one made in 68 even from the same country will change your results. There are too many variables to have a consistent rifle. On the other hand, if you don't mind having a 2-4 moa rifle that can hit center mass at open sight distances then you have a fine rifle, in that respect. The true sniper rifles capable of consistent and accurate 1000 yard shots are few and far between today.

Another question. ..have you ever shot one? Or any ww2 bolt action rifle? They are wood and steel. Most people have a hard time getting past the recoil after 5 - 10 shots let alone shooting to their hearts content. I shoot them often and usually go through a few hundred rounds. This leaves a nice black and blue mark on my shoulder! Mausers and Enfields are no different.

A few Mosins with 2 Enfields (not pictured). Got a few more since this pic was taken



If I were you I'd get a modern semi auto which takes common ammo. It will be cheaper and more advantage to you. Save money and look around. Right now is a good time to get into a AR. There is a surplus of them and many places are selling them cheap(er) to move the product. You can practice all day with 5.56 and not feel a thing. Before you go off taking out zombies at 1000 yards get good at doing that at 50 - 400 yards. If you're thinking of SHTF then that is much more useful than the occasional 1000 yard shot.

223 practice ammo is around $6 a box and you can pick up bulk ammo for about $250 per 1000 depending on the manufacturer and the type of ammo (plinking, specialty). It will save you money in the long run. mags run about $10 each.

At the moment this is what I would stick with. I like 7.62 x39 and AKs. Have plenty of them but right now Russian imports are banned and the future is uncertain with cheap import. American made ammo is almost double the price. Wolf is around $5 and Winchester is $10. There is still plenty of it but if you were going for a x39 I would get several cases immediately and set them aside.

Don't even bother with 5.45.

This was going to be my reply. A good Winchester Model 94 can still be found at a pretty decent price.

If you're looking for a bolt action that has some power, how about a Model 98 Mauser, in 8mm? I'd take that over a Mosin any day. Sure, it's going to cost just a little more, but it's a far better rifle. The Yugoslavian copy is decent, and still affordable.

When a custom rifle maker is looking for an action to build on, it's usually a Mauser.

Not to argue this but Imo the two are not any different. For his budget what a custom rifle manufacturer does is irrelevant. Both rifles shoot a powerful cartridge. And both can be hit or miss. I went through my share of Yugoslav Mausers that grouped large side of barn at 100 yards. Like the Moisins they are used war rifles in varying degrees of "used" with many different surplus ammo. From the more mild Yugo ammo to the hot Turkish ammo. Keeping consistency will depend on the rifle's condition and getting a steady supply of the same ammo. Swedish Mausers are well built and accurate. Never saw service and chambered in a equally accurate 6.5x55 ammo. Price wise the ammo is expensive with PPU fmj being the cheapest at about $15 for a box of 20.

I have never shot any of the old wartime bolt action rifles. I am not recoil sensitive at all though. Have fired much more powerful guns and seen a few Mosins at the range and they don't seem to kick too bad at all.

I found the 440rd tin for 89 bucks. I don't intend to use the rifle at anywhere near 1000yds. 400-500yds max is what I was thinking, and thats only if I did some kind of long range training course as my local range only goes to 100yds and I'd need to drive 2.5 hours to get to a 200yd range. If I happen to get one in really good shape that can be good at beyond 400-500yds, then great, but I'm not expecting it, and probably will never be able to test it that far.

I don't know where you're looking, but .223/5.56 is no where remotely near the cost of 7.62x54r. And on top of that I'm looking at a 500 dollar minimum investment on the rifle by itself, then I need a case, several magazines, ammo, and eventually an optic. It's just too much. The SKS, while not being as great of a platform, as well as bigger and heavier, is still a formidable rifle, and ammo is just as easy to find as 5.56. I'm looking at a chinese Norinco 56 SKS with scope, 2 stocks, 120rds of ammo, 30rd mag, original 10rd mag, and 2 boxes of stripper clips all for $360. To get a similar package for an AR I'm looking at spending a minimum double that price. Just not feasible for me now or in the foreseeable future as much as I'd like to have one. Or I can go Mosin for $160 and pick up 1000rds and be set. The simplicity of that sounds nice.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

I find the ammo all over the place online. SGAMMO, AIM Surplus, Palmetto State Armory.

Don't get too sucked into the scopes especially on SKS. There is no way to actually scope one. Most methods are half *** at best. Any scope mounted to the top cover don't hold zero and when you take the cover off to clean you will have to re sight the scope. The only country that scoped some SKS with limited success were the Yugoslavs. They attached a rail to the side of the receiver, like a Mosin sniper. There was a lot of aftermarket stuff made for SKS back in the day, most didn't work properly.

I'm a huge fan of Mosins but I wouldn't recommend one for that SHTF. You'll know why once you get one. Too big, too long, too slow, lacks accuracy for reasons I mentioned in my 1st post. But more importantly they have what's called a sticky bolt. Some worse than others but almost all have it. After about 5 rounds you need to hit the bolt with a 2x4 to open it. In really bad ones you have to wait till it cools off. The reason is a combination of firing pin sticking out a little bit too far, the powder type and the 60 years of caked on cosmoline. It never completely goes away.

Is that $89 dollars in store or online? If it's online you can add another $15 - $20 more for shipping.

Do you NEED a case right now? How difficult is it to save another $300 to add to the $360 you were going to spend on the Sks?

For a commercial bolt action, I would look long and hard at Savage. Accuracy should matter, and Savage usually delivers.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Surplus Russian 762x54r for the Mosin is still relatively cheap and available right now as well.

Hrm. I appreciate your commentary, but I can definitively state from personal experience that you can remedy the sticky bolt situation with bore cleaner, a power drill with a bore mop attached and patience. Neither of my Mosins experience sticky bolt issues any longer.

Multi-quotes are easy. Instead of hitting the quote button just cut and paste and highlight and then hit the quote on your own message.

Here's one:

Here's another:

Very easy.

Now on to your topic....

***GRJ***

Your SHTF rifle in the 21st century ought to not be a bolt action rifle. Actually, I'd have said that last century, too. You cannot go wrong with a Ruger American but it is limited in the number of rounds it holds and limited in the speed with which you can actually fire them accurately. Mil-surp rifles will sometimes have higher capacity but you're still limited in your speed of fire (slow, accurate fire being the goal of military armorers in the past). They are cool, however, and if you get 1000 rounds of ammunition then you can engage in some serious practice with one.

You didn't say what your experience level is but you'll get plenty of experience if you buy enough ammunition.

With respect to rifles only, I recently disposed of all of my mil-surp rifles, Czech 98 Mauser (8mm), Spanish 7mm Mauser, Swedish 1896 Mauser (6.5 x 55), hmmmm....seems like there were a few more but I cannot recall offhand. My point is, in light of my useful collection of high quality hunting rifles, lever guns, and semi-autos, these were cool rifles that I thought that people who collect them should have them. I had no intention of shooting them; they're useless to me at that point. I never had ammo for them and would never shoot them - well, no, I had a case of 8mm for the Mauser but I let that go with the rifle - let someone who cared have fun with it.

I replaced them with several useful tools that fit what I need and like, and will use, including SHTF requirements.

My point is that the only rifle that I think will work for you if you don't want a lever rifle (I probably have a dozen of them, including one .44 caliber kept loaded for that special purpose you're referring to) for hunting or defensive purposes then you're probably best served by an SKS. Whatever your learning curve is, that rifle will work for plinking, hunting, and when the whirling blades hit the offal (and fit your budget, hopefully).

Just my 2 cents....

***GRJ***

A $160 garden variety Mosin 91/30 may or may not be accurate. And you may have to experiment which ammo it shoots best and stockpile it. It might be light ball, or heavy ball. It might be Czech, Russian, Bulgarian, ect,. It may have been sighted with it's bayonet on. It's not going to shoot to its sights. The point is, you're not going to know until you actually try to put it on paper.

If you're going to get one, check the crown. It might be counterbored.

That's why I recommend getting a Finn Mosin especially the M39. All things being equal, the Finns reworked them with accuracy in mind.

BTW, as a general rule, consider all Comm-block surplus ammo corrosive and clean accordingly. Cleaning for corrosive ammo IS not a big deal as long as it's done ASAP after shooting.

It's a hard decision. I have two rifles; a scoped .270 bolt and an iron-sighted 5.56 semi. If I was starting from scratch, I think I would get the scoped bolt action .270 first.

Reasons:
It's more accurate
It's more powerful
It has better ammo availability (during buying frenzies)
It's more satisfying to handload for
It's more aesthetically pleasing

To my mind, the ultimate reason for a rifle is accuracy and power at a distance. It is "the queen of personal weapons," as Jeff Cooper succinctly put. A scoped bolt action rifle has better power, range, and accuracy than any other personal weapon, so that would be my first choice.

Like said b4---lever action is good idea.

The Marlins 336 style CAN still be had at low prices.
you can get 44 mag or 30-30----I think you would like 30-30
They are not bad as an assault rifle
You can put a scope on them.

I've seen 336's that shot nickel groups.

30-30 ammo is as cheap as it gets.

There will be parts available forever.

They're maybe some merit is possessing a "traditional" arm .


Personally, I can't stand 3rd world anything!!!

Except cute Asian girls.

For around $300 you can look into the Mossberg 100 ATR (.270, .30-06, .243, .308, 7mm) or - if you like surplus - Mauser M48 in 8mm.

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Jorge

Over your budget..... but I would recommend saving up for a few more months and get............

In Semi; a S&W M&P15 Sport

For a bolt gun; I'd recommend the CZ 527 carbine in .223 ,
Mini-Mauser action, sized for the .223 round.
Also American or Mannlicher stocks are available.
5 round detachable magazines and

most are moa out of the box.

Buying one good rifle is better than 2 or 3 mediocre guns.

I have a 44 magnum lever action Marlin.

It holds 10 rounds of 44 mag or 44 special.

Shoots accurately enough for hunting within the range reasonable for 44 mag.

I'm not really worried about SHTF scenarios, but if you are, then remember that people have been successfully defending their homes and families with pistol caliber lever actions for over 100 years.

One nice feature of Marlins (and most other brands) is you can load rounds into the loading port as you shoot to keep the rifle topped off -- without taking the rifle out of action when you reload.

Pretty much the same comments hold for 357 and 45 colt lever actions also -- although they tend to be more expensive.

On the bolt action side, a LGS has Remington 784 rifles for sale in normal hunting calibers for less than $200. The company seems to have some kind of promotion going on with rebates.

Best bang for the buck-

I think an interarms mark 10 zastava mauser in 30-06. I commonly see them for $300. Scope ready, cheap ammo, kill anything, absolute bomb proof, work horse, parts forever, mauser.

My shooting range requires all guns to be in cases any time they are not in the firing lanes. If I get out of my car and start walking up through the parking lot towards to entrance area with a gun outside of a case they will tell me to leave. And I also would prefer to have it in a case at home. So yes I do kind of need a case right away. I COULD save another 300 dollars, and I COULD spend it on a more expensive rifle, but given other expenses, and living off a student income, and having to spend a lottt of money in the very near future for things I will need for my future career, it would not be a smart financial decision to spend that much at this time or any time in the near future.

Thanks for the tip about using a scope on an SKS. I wasn't planning to use it much anyways, but it's good to know that it wouldn't work well just incase I decided I wanted to use it. I am heavily leaning towards the SKS at this point. I understand that the Mosin is long and slow, but most any bolt action rifle is long and slow. The sticky bolt can be fixed with hardly any trouble, and accuracy is a gamble, but some CAN be very accurate. The average one should be just fine on accuracy considering I'll almost certainly never use it past 200 yards. I think I'm going to get the SKS though, just waiting to hear back from the seller.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

I'd rather have a mil surp that is in good shape that I can put 500rds down range with without brutally murdering my wallet than a higher priced gun with higher priced ammo that I can practice with maybe once a month. Even if it's more accurate I'll probably still be more proficient with the a Mosin because I'll have spent exponentially more time learning to shoot it. I agree though that the SKS may be best suited to my needs though.

I feel the same way, and thats whats really making the choice difficult for me. I also feel that getting a bolt action rifle will really help me hone my shooting abilities and the slower rate of fire will make it easier to focus more on the fundamentals, which is important to me. And I won't blow through as much ammo which will help my wallet. And they may be slow but bolt guns DO certainly have their place in SHTF. But like others have said and as I said above, I'm leaning towards an SKS because I feel it is a more versatile gun.

I'm already pretty set on an SKS unless someone can change my mind, but that Mossberg looks really nice.


I searched around online for these and only found two for sale. Private sellers, both out of my state and both priced at $450.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

I have both, and would much prefer to have a stock SKS over a Mosin Nagant, were it my only rifle.

Neither, however, would be my choice if it were to be my only rifle. My only rifle would be something along the lines of a model 70 Winchester Featherweight in 30-06.

Thank goodness we don't have to make choices like that.

Arik told you right about the scope on an SKS. The ones I've seen were mounted to the dustcover, and you can wiggle them with your hand. You can imagine what that does for accuracy.

Random thoughts...

I would recommend you wait another 6 months or so and get a 16" barreled Flat top AR 15. In the long run, it will be money well spent.

Take look at the AR15 prices from CDNN.

If you just cannot wait, then get a good Mosin...

I did not buy the Moisin when the were under $50 and dealers couldn't get rid of them.

I sort of got sleepy reading all the above, what were you going to use a long gun for? Targets?

I personally would save for 6 months and get what I really wanted. I own a Colt AR 15 match, nice. I don't think you could put enough Moise's in my F-250 Super duty to trade me out of the AR or one of the old Winchester pre-64 model 70's.

Save up, go to some gun shops or gun shows and look for a plain jane Rem 700 or a plastic stocked Savage Bolt action. Seeing them in person might make a difference.

For around $500, you can also get a Remington Mdl 700 BDL in most common calibers. I've got three .270 Win of varying barrel lengths and they're reliable and great.

If you're dead set on an SKS or Mosin the SKS would be a far better
choice for many reasons for your one and only rifle, although buying a
rifle with the expectation that a real SHTF scenario will develop is
probably fantasy. The SKS is a great rifle but far better in original
condition than the mess of a gun you're looking at. Find another one.
Your best bet would still be a good used commercial bolt rifle but
milsurps can be good buys if you follow a few basic rules, make sure
the gun has an excellent bore and learn what a counterbore is and
don't buy ANY rifle that has been counterbored no matter what the
seller says. Many people buy milsurps based on external condition
without even looking down the bore. I've seen 98 Mausers with worn
bores and counterbores that wouldn't keep their shots in a 3 ft square
at 25 yds. All those cheap tins of Mosin ammo contain corrosive
primed ammo. Do you want to deal with that? The best deal on an
SKS will probably be a Chinese gun sold when bayonets were not
included, you don't need one. Non corrosive SKS ammo can be bought
be the case online at good prices. Do yourself a favor and pass on that
junked up SKS and find an original one.

But the one I mentioned is a chinese one with no bayonet... The only thing not original about it is the stock, which I prefer the one it has anyways. I don't understand how that makes it junk.

The rest of you guys must have missed my post that my budget will not be increasing in the foreseeable future. You can say AR15 all you want and as bad as I want it too it's not going to happen for at least a year. The funds are just not there, they will not be there anytime soon, and I can't make the funds pop out of thin air. SKS it is.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

May have just found an M44 Nagant for just $100 bucks which I don't think I can pass up. Looks great in the pictures, going to see it in person later today.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

M44s aren't particularly accurate.

If it's all original, stamped matching you may be able to flip it to a collector - just don't call them a "Nagant," those are pistols - Mosin refers to the long gun.

I will make a recommendation you think long and hard about your intended use. If this is a SHTF defense rifle, your primary consideration is ammo. What caliber will be most easily obtainable everywhere. 2nd, if this is one your life depends on, do you want to rely on a $89 used rifle? If money is a consideration, check into Savage, very dependable rifles for minimal amount, and they can be scoped very easy. My recommendation on a caliber would be .223, and on type it would be a bolt action. Your other family members will also need to use this in an emergency and the simplest and most rugged action is what will work for all.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I agree with your argument, but not your conclusion. When ammo gets scarce, .223 is the first ammo gone. 'Hunting' ammo sticks around (non-military calibers like .243, 7-08, .270, .30-30, etc.)

Consider the idea that if the SHTF stores will/may be closed or not selling ammo....

......it's cheaper to stock up on..223 at $9/20 vs. hunting calibers at $18-?/20 before the SHTF.

A more likely scenario is a candidate being elected sparking yet another buying frenzy that makes .223 unobtanium for 12-18 months. For someone of limited means, stashing a large cache of ammo to get though this is not realistic. Having a rifle in a caliber that maintains availability is a better guarantee of being able to shoot for fun and to maintain proficiency.

Consider what would happen to SKS/AK ammo if it stopped being imported (for whatever reason)?

OP- Waywatcher nailed it. Add my vote for the Ruger American. I have two and my 15 year old son has one as well. Mine are in 308 compact and 30-06. My son has a 308. They are very good rifles for the money.

I would stay away from the sks and mosin nagants due to ammo availability in the future. This is just my opinion and I am certain several will hammer me for my comment. But again, this is MY opinion so take it for what it is worth.

As far as caliber selection, well that is a topic for another thread or several threads. My thought is that the 30-06 is one of the most common hunting calibers so ammo availability should not be a problem. You can walk into almost any mom and pop store located anywhere in Canada and the USA and there will be a box of 30-06 on the shelf. In a SHTF scenario this is critical.

Again these are my opinions and yours may vary.

Save up a few more dollars and look for a K-31 or K-11, 7.5 Swiss .
I have 03-A3 Springfield, British Enfields, Mausers, and by far the best crafted, most accurate , best shooting is my old K-11. It's technically a 1911 Schmidt-Ruben Carbine and is built like a fine Swiss watch. Really good trigger allows for impressive groups and the action is cool!
Gary

Get what you think you'll need now. It's all a matter of priority. When "the SHTF", as you put it happens, it'll be too late to acquire rifles or ammunition.