Any Winchester guys here? Need help on 1897 Riot gun

john14_18 · #1 12-06-2014, 12:41 PM

I have run across a Winchester Model 1897 riot gun that I would appreciate
an opinion as far as value. The gun is in extremely good shape. I don't believe it has been reblued but I'm no expert. Serial number has
E stamped above it and number is 711587 which, according to proofhouse, puts date of manf at 1923.. It does have "cyl" on top of cylinder. Very clean bore and has a gold trigger and hammer which I don't believe can be original. Great condition including wood.I have pics below. Very smooth action. Thank you in advance for any info you may provide.

Have a Blessed Day !

LoboGunLeather · #2 12-06-2014, 01:11 PM

The high-gloss blued finish does not appear to be original. There appears to be some "cupping" around screw holes and barrel stampings, consistent with polishing for refinish work. The gold trigger and hammer are something I have never seen on an original 1897.

Other than that, a nice specimen overall. Many, many thousands were made for law enforcement use, prisons, and the US Army over the years, most of which will show lots of wear and tear from use. One of the things I would check on the 1897 is the fit of the barrel and barrel extension into the frame; this point can become very loose after much use. Also, the barrel extension should be serial numbered to the frame (assuming all parts are original to the gun).

The 1897's are still popular with many people, and are in some demand for the cowboy action shooting sports. Even though apparently refinished I would expect yours to bring $500-plus if properly displayed (published regional auctions, internet auctions, etc).

john14_18 · #3 12-06-2014, 01:16 PM

Lobogunleather-

Thank you so much ! I certainly do appreciate it !

Have a Blessed Day!

Big Fred · #4 12-06-2014, 01:30 PM

The 97 has definitely been refinished, and they didn't have gold triggers and hammers. This one in particular is a Solid Frame riot gun. The solid frames seem to bring a little more money as there are less of them around. There is no barrel extension, takedown to check for wear on a solid frame, so no worrys there.

I agree with the $500 estimate for a refinished solid frame. I have a "few" original solid frame riots and their value is well north of $500.

This should make a neat shooter.

2152hq · #5 12-06-2014, 01:44 PM

I say a definate re-blue,,unless it's the pictures that are fooling my eyes.

The gold accents not factory of course.

The gun is a 'solid frame' model (no quick take down),,which was popular for the Riot configuration,,if not exclusive to it. I'm sure it was for the Trench Gun version.

Looking at the CYL. choke marking,,again I suspect a hand stamped do-over from something else that was there originally. Perhaps FULL or MOD. With that the bbl was probably a 30 or 28" long original.

The orig choke markings are a one piece hand stamped imprint,,not done w/ individual stamps.
The bbl in the least shows heavy polishing, buffing & reblue.

There should be a crisp, 'stamped through the bluing' Winchester proof mark (W/P inside an oval) on the top of the bbl at the recv'r and also on the top of the rcv'r at the front right behind the bbl proof.
If they are missing,,they've been ground off, much as the original choke marking could have been. They may be still there but light imprinted, smeared from buffing and under the current (re)blue.

Riot configuration 97's and M12's bring better $$ than field configuration guns.
With many people believing the difference between the two being a hacksaw and some file work, some great guns have been converted to the shorter versions for simply profit motives.
Not all are poorly done, not all are represented as original.
Pay what they are worth for what they actually are.
Just my observations,,

30-30remchester · #6 12-06-2014, 02:29 PM

As most have stated it is a definite reblue and the stock appears to be refinished as well. It is a shame this was done to such a classic. I guess the original owner liked shiny things. I cant give an estimate on value but I can tell you the refinish job cost several hundred dollars and actual devalued the guns the same amount. If refinished guns don't bother you it should last you 3 lifetimes.

DWalt · #7 12-06-2014, 03:55 PM

I had a very nicely-done be-blued 1897 of about the same period, takedown, with 32" barrel. Best I could get for it was $300. I also thought it would bring at least $400, but I couldn't find anyone who would pay that much.

Gunhacker · #8 12-06-2014, 04:33 PM

It used to be that the 1897's maintained a decent price even after being re-blued, but as far as looks are concerned, they are now in competition with the Chinese made IAC 1897reproductions , that carries an MSRP of $434.95.

If all I wanted was just a shooter... I'd have to say that I'd lean towards the IAC with it being a new gun, without the wear on the internal parts present on a re-blue.

Depending on the price, for myself I'd be tempted to do something crazy like buy it, and a reproduction 1897 trench gun hand guard/bayonet mount... parkerize the thing out and make it into replica WWI trench gun just for giggles. But that's just me, and I've gotten kind of wacky in my "old age".

john14_18 · #9 12-06-2014, 05:29 PM

Thank all of you for your input ! I certainly appreciate it!