I need some help, folks. I ran across a gentleman at my gun club who is selling both a 1903 Springfield and a Springfield Garand. Both are .30-06. Both are in great condition and decently priced. It's for my 21 year old son, so I need to choose one. I have no experience with either. Any input would be appreciated. Ammo/accessory availability, shootability and so forth.

Go!

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

You can't go wrong, totally personal taste. The 1903 might be easier to learn to shoot since it is a bolt action. Loading the Garand eight round en bloc clip can be tricky and cause the dreaded "M1 thumb". Ammo and accessories are the same.

My vote would be for the '03 Springfield. Famous for its accuracy, a classic. I sure wouldn't turn down either, but then if I were 21 the history of the Garand might not resonate quite the way it does at 77.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I'd say suck it up and go for both, they are both great guns. I purchased an 03a3 and a Garand of a fellow club member a couple years ago. That got me onto that slippery slope though.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

LTC

If it's me, I buy both. Since you specified one or the other, the Garand. It's not that difficult to learn how to operate and shoots like a dream. No slam on the '03, but IMHO the M-1, hands down.

Buy them both. Whichever one you buy you will regret not buying the other. Ask me how I know.

Well....a lot depends on the serial number of the 1903. The early ones had improperly heat treated receivers and could shatter when fired. You can google the serial number range. WW1 era 1903s bring good money and have tons of nostalgia if all correct and proper parts are there.

The M1s had parts upgraded and replaced as a rule so finding one with its original parts is not feasible but a WW2 era Garand is one of those must haves to me. Some have excessive muzzle erosion and throat erosion which can be checked with a gage. But anything with original wood is very collectable. Original barrel/receiver is also a plus.

Most of this stuff you need books to tell what is original to them and what is a replacement, you just can't look at a part and tell because they used drawing numbers and not serial numbers on the parts. Chances are finding an original 1903 is easier than an M1. Originality never bothered me much since it was the nature of the beast to have parts replaced in the field or armory.

I'd shoot only military ball ammo in the M1 but you can shoot reloads in the '03. Accessories like slings, bayonets are nice to have.

What is decently priced?

Buy both of them.

Tim

Yup buy em both, you won't regret it.

Garand. Accurate, semi auto ....and I'm a lefty! Even if you still decide to give it to your son

Not withstanding one of them having specific rarity ; I'd prefer the '03 , you son would probably prefer the Garand.

Assuming that the 03 isn't one of the (possibly) bad early ones, I find I like shooting the 03 better than the M1. The 03 is more accurate and is not sensitive to ammo choices. The 03 will shoot any commercial 30-06 ammo. The M1 won't, most is loaded with powder that is too slow and it will damage the op-rod.

There is a gas port adjustment thingy that can be added to the M1 that supposedly makes it safe to shoot commercial ammo. I have not used it, so I don't know if it is a real solution.

M1 ammo must either be purchased through the CMP, or find a commercial brand made specifically for the M1. Federal/AE is the only one that I know of, I don't remember what the product number is. It may be 3006M1.

A good condition 03 is more rare than a good condition M1. When the CMP gets 03s for sale (less often these days), they are usually very worn.

Whichever you get, you may want a butt pad or a padded shooting jacket. The steel buttplate thumps you pretty hard.

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Common sense isn't so common.

We used the 1903 in korea for a sniper rifle. It was said to be better than the m1 for that purpose. I personally never fired one, just going by what was said at the time. Both great rifles. Merry Christmas.

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Semper Fi until I die

If you can afford it, buy both for the time being. After you have them in you hand you can look up what parts belong to the vintage and manufacturer of them. Import marks, cracked wood, bore erosion, etc.. can be checked and deducted from keep-ability. And above all shoot them.
I have several types of service rifles and the more I shoot them the more I keep going back to a beat up 1917 Remington. I just love to shoot it. If they are comparable in value, shoot them side by side, one will tell you "KEEP ME". Then if the need arises you can sell the mute one.
My $.02 Larry

The '03--sans the kick you butt steel plate.
Friend's dad ran the national guard armory in Kilgore--we got to shoot both, a lot.
A lot, for me was not a lot--at one time.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

Go for both if you can but if I had to choose only one, I'd need more specific info about each to decide.

Not really. Garands need a specific power curve or they will break/bend operating rods. There's lots of loading data but don't get one thinking any 30-06 will work.

You can also get an adjustable gas screw for around 50-75 dollars. More Garands around than good Springfields BUT you hafta read up on BOTH to make a wise choice.

Both are good rifles,,,,, Buy both! You won't go wrong!

AS ^^^^^^ said!
I have a M1(WW II) and if I come across a 03 I'll get it....

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

What 03 you looking a 1903 or a 1903A3? There is a warning on CMP about low number 1903 rifles. You can read it here.
M1903/M1903A3 | Civilian Marksmanship Program Though only a few early ones actually had a problem but it was easier to put the warning on low number units then to try to pick individual ones.

What will he be using it for? Deer hunting it will be easier to limit the total rounds for the 03 but I think they use to sell a round limiter for the Garand not sure how hard they will be to find now. Just checked and Midway has a 2 and 5 round clip. What do you like or him a bolt firearm or semi auto. The M14 is a modified M1 Garand. More Garands where manufactured but good 03's are getting less. Lots of 03's were sporterized GB right now has 173 03's for sale and 1882 Garands.

Like other stated buy both one for you one for him.

P.S both of these rifles use a clip no magazine here.

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Psalm 23:4

Thanks for the great response, fellas! Lots of good info and advice. I'm going to fondle them this weekend. I'll have a pocket full of cash, so I just might get both.

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Hey,
Good plan. You will not regret it. Good luck and good shooting!

Dave

Good point. I always shoot surplus CMP ammo, good for both rifles.

I say buy both, keep both and give your son an iPod or XBox.

If he doesn't have bolt guns already, I'd get the 1903 as being generally useful for everything. If he does have bolt guns, the Garand is interesting historically and mechanically. It also it depends on if he's a collector or a user.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I have both and your question is like asking which of your kids you love more. Get them both they are awesome and a piece of American history to be proud of.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Buy BOTH. You will be glad you did next year! Both are great shooters and outstanding examples of what our military guys carried around.

I recently set up a shoot with my Garand for a friend whos Dad was ashore on D-Day. He was amazed at the rifles weight and accuracy. He could only image what his Dad endured during the war, my buddy had a few emotional minutes there.

The sights on an '03 are harder to use, but an '03A3 is similar to a M1 and much easier to use. The '03 is easier to clean & maintain - the M1 has ammo requirements as well as cleaning & lubrication requirements that are somewhat more intensive than an '03.

Buy both and offer him his choice. You win all around.........If you have to get one, '03!!

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Go big or stay home

I have an arsenal redone four digit '03 that I'm not supposed to shoot because of the heat treating concerns but used to shoot it all the time, any not worried about that. And I sold my Garand and never missed it. But I'd go for "the greatest battle implement ever invented" (or however Patton put it) and go with the Garand even if I didn't already have this gun.

If you get them for a fair price you won't loose money on either of them. They will beat the interest rate on a Bank CD every time.

Here is a good article on the subject of the low numbers.

Information On M1903 Receiver Failures

Out of 800,000 guns, there were 33 failures, some due to using 8mm ammo.

I have Serial Number 725xxx with a barrel dated 10-17. It does have what looks like a hardness test dimple next to the serial number.

I have been shooting this rifle for over 50 years and I will continue to do so.

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Corripe Cervisiam

I might get blasted for this, but if you have a $1k budget, get him a CMP Special Grade M1 in 308. New 308 criterion barrel(none of that Navy chamber insert garbage), new cmp stock, and all re-parkerized to look fresh off the factory floor. The only thing missing is a couple of coats of hand rubbed BLO or Tung oil on the stock. The 308s also really don't have to mess with a Schuster or ported gas plugs on anything except the heaviest hunting loads over 180gr and ammo of all types are available everywhere as opposed to the Garand specific 30-06 loads.

And while not a 30-06 a 308 really doesn't give up much in terms of performance.

One thing people haven't mentioned. The M-1 is more FUN to shoot!

I know what I talk of: I have a Krag, Springfield, 17 Enfield, M-1 Carbine and a Garand.

However, I'd still recommend (in order of preference) the 1917 Enfield, Springfield, M-1 Carbine, M-1 Garand, Krag (last). But All are fun!

As many have said, both if you can afford it. I had both and enjoyed both.

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GA Carry member
Vietnam Vet

Which one does he want?

That question makes just too much dang sense.

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I always take precautions

He likes both, that's my dilemma.

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

For pure panache give him an M1. For a rifleman's rifle give him an '03.

Well Johnson, get them both if the price is right. And if the price is right I'm on the other end of the Parkway and I'll take the homeless one.

BUY BOTH! Money in the bank.

Got 'em both. Thanks!

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Many, Many, Many eons ago I was a 5'7" 135 lbs pimpled face youth military guy assigned to the Rifle Team. We were issued a Springfield M1903A3 and a Garand M1. each range trip the Garand needed to be sighted in, but the Springfield kept its zero. I think (?) the reason was that the Springfield did not have to be taken down for cleaning and the Garand did.
I would choose the Springfield.

post pics or it didn't happen.

I'd go with the '03,if it's not a very early one.
I'd also do a little more research on exactly what it is.Bear in mind that both of these models have been around a long time,and reworked a few times along the way.....it's like they've been in a war or something. ;-P

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Questions that haven't been asked:

How original is the Garand?
How original is the '03?
Is it an '03 or an '03A3 and what's the barrel date?
Is the price the same on each?
If not, how much different?

(i.e. An all original Garand vs. a reworked or a parts '03 could make a big difference. And vice-versa.)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Opportunity knocks. Take advantage of it. Get both, by hook or by crook. Both are a gratifying study to own and use.

I've played with U.S. military guns all my life and have owned examples most of them since I was a teen.

Here's a lucky M1 obtained from the DCM in the mid-1980s. Barreled receiver, bolt, op rod, and stock's cartouches all appear to be correct parts revisions for a mid-year 1944 gun. Trigger group is a mishmash of World War II parts, Springfield and Winchester. Sights and gas plug are post-war.


Here's an honest, unmolested, not-rebuilt, completely original Rock Island Model 1903 with a barrel date of August 1913.


An alternate opinion about the use of the two rifles and proper ammunition.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. How in the world did we get along with our '03s and M1s before the internet forum rumor mill came along to save us from ourselves?! Both the issue of the low-numbered '03 Springfields and whether or not to shoot them and the M1 being so delicate that it requires special ammunition and adjustable gas plugs have arisen to a great extent since the advent of the internet and the firearms forum. Since that time, repetition has swelled these twin topics into "huge big deals" with everyone repeating what he's read, relating all the doom that will befall the foolhardy who shoot these rifles without regard for the dire pronouncements. Lot's of "sky is falling" abounds in the internet dithering.

Low Number Springfields: Only one opinion but I've shot the 1913 Rock Island for over 30 years now and other pre-1918 '03s for many years. I'm simply unconcerned about it. I don't handload ammunition to the maximum listed charge weights for use in the low-numbered rifle.

According to "Hatcher's Notebook" the Model 1903 of the years in question was produced of the same steel as the previous Krag and with the same heat treatment processes. Yeah, supposedly manufacturing became rushed upon commencement of U.S. involvement in World War I and some rifles of "burnt" steel got into circulation, getting past the Armory proof tests. A read of Hatcher's extensive list of known burst receivers invariably finds extenuating circumstances though; circumstances that could stress any bolt action and obviously caused failure of the rifle actions listed. Nobody's pushing rumors of Krags blowing up and a superficial examination of the Krag action would assume it to be a weaker design than that of the Mode 1903. Just like the Krag though, I'll trust an original Model 1903 barreled action and enjoy playing with such a rifle off the bench rest with prepared handloads and, horror of horrors, have even entered a high-power match or two with one.

The "delicate" M1: Internet rumors have become ever more strident about the M1 requiring "special ammunition" for proper shooting use or bent op rods, rear receiver failures, death and destruction will occur. Gimmick adjustable gas plugs are being purchased by the "knowing" to obviate the evils that could befall them if the rifle was fired with the "un-adjustable" types of gas plugs that served so well before "we knew better."

The rifle is better than this and requires little special consideration for feeding. I've shot that M1 shown above extensively in high-power competition at the local level for a period of over 20 years. It shoots better now than ever. I just didn't know I was doing "that which was evil" by not equipping it with a special adjustable gas plug, something unavailable when it began it's high-power match career. I didn't know one couldn't feed the M1 handloads. Didn't know that one couldn't feed the M1 common commercial factory ammunition. Yet, I've seen internet forum post declaring that the M1 doesn't take .30-06 ammunition at all but rather special ammunition all its own. How extreme is that?

Simple rule of thumb for handloaders is: Don't make use of the heaviest bullets in the .30 bullet range for shooting use in the M1 and don't use propellants with slow burning rates. Use bullets in the 125-180 grain weight range with powders in the IMR 3031 to IMR 4320 range and you'll obtain endless good service from an M1.

Stay away from the "light magnum" factory loads, factory loads having 200 or 220 grain bullets, or one's favorite nuclear-powered hunting handloads and the M1 will be fine. No gimmick gas plug or special ammunition required.

Both the low-number Model 1903 Springfield and the M1 can give a lifetime of shooting satisfaction if accorded the basic respect one would give any fine firearm. Draw your own conclusions and take the above with several grains of salt but don't make the mistake of only repeating what has been read without really experiencing these great rifles.

Can't beat either one. Grab them both. I love my Garand but yet to fire the 03's.

I'm in the buy em both camp. If I had to choose just one, I'd go Garand.

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-John