Don't laugh!

I watched Hickok45's video on the gun/rifle and would like to know the story.

Is it a piece of junk like the P3at I wasted money on? And I think they had a bull pup shotgun with a lot of issues.

What use would it have? For home defense I doubt it is any better than a Glock 19 with a 33 round mag.

I only shoot at indoor ranges right now.

BTW I tried the search for earlier threads and found nothing.

IMO they are strictly fun guns. And they are that. Lot's of fun.

Had one several years ago for a short time. Worked well. No issues at all. I'm just not confident that some of Kel Tec's guns will hold up to a high round count.

If you need a truck gun, the Sub could be great. Never had a truck gun but I'm not sure I would want one in a pistol caliber.

As far as around the house, I would stick with your Glock. If a long gun is needed, a shot gun is best.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

If you think the P3AT is junk, then you won't like the SUB 2000, because it functions equally with that handgun as well as the P32.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

My kids miss my Sub 2000 40cal. I also owned one in 9mm Beretta.

And several other Keltecs = great design, quality concerns

The Sub 2000 is accurate and lethal out to 400 yards.

I want to see you do that with a Glock 19 or any simular pistol.

It's keep a Sub 2000 along with several Glock 18 mags in my BOB.

That's a lot of firepower in a small compact package.

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Molon Labe!

I have a KT sub 2k in 40 cal, Glock mag's..Love it and at 4 lbs and 16" folded, it suits my needs..

Read up a lot on the Sub2000 once -- don't have one but I think they can be taken seriously, with caveats. Wouldn't expect one to stand up to year in, year out range sessions and high round count courses.

That said, with basic care and limited use, I'd expect one to hold up well and be dependable as a personal defense carbine if needed, with the bonus of extreme portability should one desire that.

The aftermarket is getting fairly robust for them, too.

But by and large, it's a fun gun in terms of hard use. For most any serious application the Sub2000 is marketed for, an AR will outshine it and I'd say the latter is the way to go for fighting carbines, if the shooter's willing to put in the time to learn and perfect its use.

But for the casual home defense enthusiast who wants something basic, compatible with their handgun for an HD set-up that they'll shoot enough to be proficient with, then clean and have at hand but otherwise more or less ignore, a Sub and caliber/magazine sharing handgun isn't a bad combo.

I have the Glock 17 version and I love it. I've had it for 4 years and it is a blast hitting steel targets at 100 & 200 yards (Something I can't really do with my Glock pistol). I haven't had any issues with mine. I think it is a fun range gun but also a great truck gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I979gQaLvn4

I see the opinion that it won't hold up to a lot of use but has anyone actually used one enough to have this prove true? I typically do not like the feel of inexpensive guns but as a result I never buy one and shoot it so I have never given them a chance. I have been looking for a 9mm carbine that is still in production and this is one of the only ones I can find except for a Hi Point and Hi Point looks to be in the same inexpensive class. I don't want an AR platform 9 and the Marlin camp 9 and Beretta 9 carbine don't appear to be made any more.
To me the Keltec looks cheap but I really have no personal experience with it.

But one question in particular tends to show up when evaluating a pistol-caliber rifle like this one. Does a 9 mm carbine really offer a sufficient level of stopping power to be useful for home or personal defense? Logic dictates that if a 9 mm pistol loaded with quality hollow points can get the job done, then the increased accuracy and bullet velocity provided by a 16-inch rifle barrel would be even better. But hard data is always more useful than conjecture.

Using a CED M2 chronograph, 10-round strings of the two defense-grade loads tested for accuracy were clocked for velocity. The Hornady Custom 147-grain XTP, designed to operate at the sub-sonic velocity of 975 feet-per-second (fps) from a pistol, averaged 1,171 fps from the SUB 2000. DoubleTap's 124-grain +P brass-jacketed hollow points, which travel at 1,300 fps from a 4.5-inch barrel pistol, jumped to 1,655 fps from the SUB 2000. This increase in velocity boosts the level of energy for a 9 mm cartridge significantly. The Hornady load went from an estimated 310 ft.-lbs. of energy to 447 ft.-lbs., with the DoubleTap round increasing its energy from 465 ft.-lbs. to 754 ft.-lbs. As a point of reference, DoubleTap offers 125-grain .357 Mag. hollow points that strike with 710 ft.-lbs. of energy. That means this low-recoil rifle, when loaded properly with an extended magazine and fired at home defense distances, hits like a .357 Mag. over 30 times before it needs to be reloaded. Yep, that should do the trick.

The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9 mm Carbine - American Rifleman

http://www.slickguns.com/sites/defau...02a977e450.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxyTmgQxtHM

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2459

OK, I have a Sub 9 in 40 cal. The predecessor to the Sub 2000, so not quite apples to apples as mine has the all aluminum receiver instead of the plastic one, also its a 40 cal, not the anemic 9 (I own nothing in 9). Mine shares magazines with my Glock 22 which is a great feature.
The length of pull seems short but Tandomcross has come out with a great extended butt pad that fixes all that!
I also see a gain of about 200 fps over the glock which is a good thing, and accuracy with it is outstanding. Have had mine for several years with out problem one.. I like it!

I had a 9mm Sub-2K (Beretta mag style). Neat little gun, never gave me any trouble. Qualified with it on our patrol rifle course of fire, kept it in my duty bag in the passenger seat when working. Eventually traded it away because I didn't carry a Beretta (or Glock or S&W auto) for a sidearm, so no mag compatibility, if I did I would probably still have it.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I see a lot of people denigrating the SUB-2000, and then saying that they don't own one, and likely have never fired one. They often opine that they don't want something that won't hold up over the long term. I recall hearing similar comments when the Glock first came out...and we all know how that worked out.

I do understand that a few Kel-Tec offerings have experienced some issues, so the concern is not totally undeserved. To my mind, while the 9mm is a fairly high pressure round, for a handgun, I still don't see it as being anything that should be difficult for a carbine to handle. So, I can't see why it shouldn't be capable of firing many, many thousands of rounds without issue.

I have a SUB-2000 in 9mm, originally took the G17 mags, but a previous owner shortened the grip to allow it to take G19 mags. While I haven't done a torture test on it, I certainly haven't "babied" it, either. It's had probably a couple thousand rounds through it (on my watch...unknown how many rounds the previous owner may have fired through it), and I haven't had one single problem with it, not a FTF, or a FTE, or anything. I'm well-known amongst my friends for being a bit unconcerned about regularly cleaning my guns after every outing...so, this SUB-2000 has been allowed to get rather dirty...still without any issues, whatsoever.

As to the performance of pistol caliber carbines: certainly, it can not compare to an AR-15, or any other rifle caliber carbine. There's just no comparison in range, accuracy, or power. That having been said...there are still some times or conditions under which a pistol caliber carbine may be just the ticket.

For one thing, the SUB-2000 will fold to fit into a space that very few rifle caliber carbines can be made to fit into, without fully breaking them down. So, the SUB-2000 will fit into a backpack or even a briefcase, but can still be made ready to fire in a very short time.

Also, for people with limited size and strength, either the very young or very old, or petite women, or those suffering from arthritis or something similar...a pistol caliber carbine allows for greater accuracy, quicker follow-up shots, and significantly less recoil than a rifle caliber carbine or pistol.

A slight caveat on the "improved" ballistics of a pistol caliber carbine. Just because a particular bullet is being driven to a higher velocity, thereby generating more ft./lbs. of energy...that does not necessarily translate to a more effective "man-stopper". Not surprisingly, most pistol cartridges are designed with the idea that they will be fired from pistol-length barrels. Therefore, many of the defensive cartridges have been designed for optimal expansion at the standard velocities obtained when fired from those barrels. When fired from carbine-length barrels, many of these bullets do indeed achieve much higher velocities...which oftentimes results in more rapid expansion, sometimes causing the bullet to fragment and/or suffer jacket separation. The end result in some of these instances is a dramatic decrease in the penetration of the bullet, which can result in a wound that is so shallow it fails to reach any vital organs...effectively DECREASING the overall effectiveness of the cartridge! So, one must be aware of this before flatly stating that the velocity gain achieved by the longer barrel is a good thing...it may actually be a bad thing, with certain cartridges.

So...I love my Kel-Tec SUB-2000. It's a great little rifle, very compact and lightweight, very accurate, very reliable, gentle recoil, same mags as my pistols, etc...what's not to like? Would it be my first choice as MY rifle? No. Not unless/until I get much older, and/or my arthritis gets much worse.

Tim

Thanks for the info

[QUOTE=A.O.;138292072]OK, I have a Sub 9 in 40 cal. The predecessor to the Sub 2000, so not quite apples to apples as mine has the all aluminum receiver instead of the plastic one, also its a 40 cal, not the anemic 9 (I own nothing in 9). Mine shares magazines with my Glock 22 which is a great feature.
The length of pull seems short but Tandomcross has come out with a great extended butt pad that fixes all that!
I also see a gain of about 200 fps over the glock which is a good thing, and accuracy with it is outstanding. Have had mine for several years with out problem one.. I like it![/QUOTE

Anemic 9?

Those silly 40 S&W (slow & weak) fan boiz!

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Molon Labe!

Yeah Slow & Weak, just like my 500 S&W, Slow &Weak

And yep, anemic ...

I have an older Hi-Point and it is way more accurate than me. With a red dot I can hold a sub 2 inch group at 50 yards from a rest. That's close enough for social work. I noticed that 124gr +P went with an authoritative crack, so it is trucking right along.

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Release the Kraken

I guess if it helps you sleep at night...

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Molon Labe!

I sleep fine at night... not sure why any of this would effect that..

20 posts and everyone has been civil to you, even though it is a Kel-Tec.

You've done good. Just don't mention a TEC-9, which is actually a pretty cool gun. It has it's place just like any other.

A $6500 1000 yard sniper rifle is a good gun.
So is a Kel-Tec.
So is a TEC-9.
So is a Glock. (Oh, man that hurt to write that)
So are THOUSANDS of other guns
Would you take that sniper rifle to the back yard at shoot at a target 25 yards away? I doubt it.

Tolerance is a good thing and the ability to accept other people and their preferences. However, for most people it takes many many years before they learn that. Some never get there.

I had owned a Keltec P32 and P11 that had never worked fully reliably but had owned a Sub2k for G17 mags for a couple of years and fired about 1,000 to 2,000 rounds through it.

The gun has a heavy bolt that catches the recoil and allows very fast follow-up shots. I never had a single problem with reliabilty but did not like the inline stock with the awkwardly low sights and the red plastic front sight post that disappeared in low light.

While the Sub2k does not display a particularly nice finish and appears cheaply made but the function is not compromised and Keltec has a pretty good warranty in case something should fail.

If anyone is looking to buy a Sub-2000 9mm that takes Glock mags, it's like new in box only fired a few rounds down the pipe.......drop me a line! Great gun, but I have a CMMG AR style 9mm that cost me more and suits me better, so this one is could be up for grabs.......Happy New Year!

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303