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Old 01-11-2015, 09:14 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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2013 was the year of the Remington 870, 2014 was the year of the Remington Model 700, 2015 is the year of the over/under. I have begged for your opinions about over/under shotguns before, and I an at it again. I have done some reading and lightly used the Browning Citori and Ruger Red Label. I would like to take lessons in skeet and sporting clays, but still be able to use this shotgun for hunting. I also want the ability to use chokes/tubes to change from 12 to 20 gage, in case I want a softer recoil in my golden years. I freely admit that I have no experience with chokes and barely know what they are or how they operate except from books. I also believe that at least a 28" barrel is preferable, but do not know if that is my unfounded bias. I am looking to have one DO IT ALL over under shotgun. Other than fit and feel, which features and which over under shotguns have you enjoyed in a DO IT ALL role. Thanks again for your wisdom, Rick


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Old 01-11-2015, 09:42 PM
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Well, an over-under or any double is a luxury item for a wealthy shooter. The good ones aren't cheap.

In a moderate price range, I'd look hard for an SKB, probably one sold once by Ithaca. I think the Model 600 was the better finished one. Model 500 was plainer.

THe older Beretta boxlock guns like the BL-4 were good buys and you may find one. I don't like the fish belly shape to the forend wood, but that's personal. Their higher grade guns are straighter there.

For more money, look at the Beretta M-687EELL.

If you're well off, look at the Beretta SO series, the better Merkel guns, and the "Best" British makes, like Holland & Holland, Purdey, and Boss. It may be a clue that a British friend has a brace of Purdeys from her father, but usually shoots a Beretta. You're looking at $100,000-up for the Best made London guns.

Webley & Scott had some sound doubles in their Model 700 series and some made it here.

What you need to do first is buy and read Don Zutz's, "The Double Shotgun". Get the Revised edition. Read that before relying on the Net for your info. I knew Don and we both wrote for the same title for years. I think he was the most knowledgeable shotgun writer whom I've encountered.

You should also get, "Beretta" by Held and Morin and Wilson's Beretta book.

What you probably want is a 20 ga. for three-inch shells, choked IC and Modified. Use the long shells for ducks and longer range pheasants.

The late Jack O'Connor's most used doubles in later life were a side by side Beretta SO series gun and Winchester M-21's. Jack told me that he saw little need to carry a 12 ga. for most upland shooting. And both he and Don found the 20 ga. three-inch to be effective on ducks. Francis Sell even liked it on geese.

Unless you will shoot a lot of geese or cranes, I doubt that you'll need more than a 20 ga. I think the Ithaca/SKB or other SKB are your best buy. They use a Merkel/Beretta style cross bolt locking action. Zutz felt the Ruger was relatively heavy and unresponsive. But it's durable, I think, and fairly cheap, as double guns go. Jack quipped in a book that Beretta's designers had def. seen a Merkel! But if they're going to copy a design, they chose well. (The Japanese rifle maker Howa has seen Sako, too, I fancy!) Zutz had a Merkel and liked it. Apart from his Rem. M-1100 with high grade Skeet level stock wood, he shot mainly doubles.

We had this discussion not long ago, didn't we? Nothing has changed.

Oh: some Weatherby doubles have been made by one of the Zoli firms in Italy and some are from SKB. For repair reasons alone, I'd get one of their SKB-made ones.

Be very careful in buying a double. Many were made by firms who either are out of business or who cannot provide US repair. Frankly, I think that at this stage of your career, you should be buying a Remington pump or auto or a Beretta M-391, perhaps in a higher grade like the M-391 Urika Gold that I had. I'd still have it, but was forced to sell when out of work for months. But even that beats losing the gun in a boating accident, eh?

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Old 01-11-2015, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
2013 was the year of the Remington 870, 2014 was the year of the Remington Model 700, 2015 is the year of the over/under. I have begged for your opinions about over/under shotguns before, and I an at it again. I have done some reading and lightly used the Browning Citori and Ruger Red Label. I would like to take lessons in skeet and sporting clays, but still be able to use this shotgun for hunting. I also want the ability to use chokes/tubes to change from 12 to 20 gage, in case I want a softer recoil in my golden years. I freely admit that I have no experience with chokes and barely know what they are or how they operate except from books. I also believe that at least a 28" barrel is preferable, but do not know if that is my unfounded bias. I am looking to have one DO IT ALL over under shotgun. Other than fit and feel, which features and which over under shotguns have you enjoyed in a DO IT ALL role. Thanks again for your wisdom, Rick
First, choke tubes won't change the gauge. It would be nice if they could but a 12 ga will be a 12 ga forever unless you use tube inserts. Those are expensive. So you have to decide which gauge you want to start with. I have used mostly 12 ga guns to hunt with and they are preferred by serious clays shooters. If you want to reduce recoil you can buy 1 oz loads or reload your own. A 12 ga. is the most versatile. A 12 ga. 3" gun can shoot 1 1/2 oz - 7/8 oz loads no problem. A 20 ga is mostly an upland bird gun and a clays gun for women and children. 7/8 oz is a standard 20 ga. load and a handicap on clays and some birds like waterfowl.

I'm not familiar with some of the newer O/U but I would stay away from anything under 1K. Get a Browning or Beretta and save yourself some headaches down the road. Those are the top 2 selling O/U's for a reason. There are some others that are better but they will cost a lot more. I know a lot of hunters and clays shooters that use both and wouldn't buy anything else.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:38 PM
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Browning has just came out with a new O/U, it has mechanical triggers as opposed to their traditional inertia triggers on the Citoris & Lightenings. If you can afford it the Belgium made guns hold their value a lil better.......... but the Japanese made ones are made just as well mechanically, metal finish & wood fit and finish wise. My brother cringed when he carries his Belgium made Browning SXS into the brush when our dogs went on point there...........
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:43 PM
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Here's a little chart for measuring choke. It gives the percentage of the shot in the shell that falls into a 30" circle in three different yardages.

CHOKE 20 Yds 30 Yds 40 yds
Cylinder 80% 60% 40%
Skeet 92% 72% 50%
Improved Cylinder 100% 77% 55%
Modified 100% 83% 60%
Improved Modified 100% 91% 65%
Full 100% 100% 70%
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:32 AM
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First, welcome to the wild world of shotguns. Brother, you are entering the void from which there is no return. Get ready, I'll try to keep this short...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUSTON RICK View Post
I have done some reading and lightly used the Browning Citori and Ruger Red Label. I would like to take lessons in skeet and sporting clays, but still be able to use this shotgun for hunting.
Just steer clear of the Red Label. There have been many problems with those guns. The most recent edition is better, but the Citori is still a much better gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
Well, an over-under or any double is a luxury item for a wealthy shooter. The good ones aren't cheap.
People don't like to hear this, but it is the stone cold truth. Over under shotguns are not inexpensive. However, it is disingenuous to say they are luxury items for the wealthy. I've owned my share and I'm not wealthy by any stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by da gimp View Post
Browning has just came out with a new O/U, it has mechanical triggers as opposed to their traditional inertia triggers on the Citoris & Lightenings.
Are you talking about the Cynergy when you say "new" with mechanical triggers? Or are you talking about the Citori 725? Neither is really new. The Cynergy was introduced in 2004 and the 725 is just a rehash of the older Citori guns, but with a lower profile to the receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by da gimp View Post
If you can afford it the Belgium made guns hold their value a lil better.......... but the Japanese made ones are made just as well mechanically, metal finish & wood fit and finish wise.
Yeah, if you can afford them. Browning still produces the Superposed in Belgium, but a new one will start somewhere around $15K so, break out the check book. Older Superposed models can be found for reasonable prices, but beware of the "salt" models. Honestly, it's best for the OP to avoid the Superposed at this stage.


Now, down to brass tacks, Rick, you said, "I would like to take lessons in skeet and sporting clays, but still be able to use this shotgun for hunting." Wouldn't we all? Alas, there is no one shotgun that will fit all the venues. Sporting guns are too heavy to carry in the field and field guns are too light for the heavy use they will see in the clay games. So, before I spend the next hour typing, tell me what you'll do more, clay games or hunting? Then we can help you find the right gun.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Are you prepared to spend at least $2,500 for a new gun? If you're not, maybe the O/U isn't for you.

Just for reference, and so you'll know I have a clue when it comes to shotguns, here's my Browning Cynergy with custom stock:


This book is considered the "Go To" book for how to get your shotgun to fit correctly:


That's me on the cover. I'm actually a lefty, but Rollin thought it would be better to have a right handed shooter on the cover so, we inverted the pic.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:32 AM
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You've received input from a couple very knowledgable folks here

I've moved away from o/u's and no longer have any.

I prefer s x s doubles: older American classics and British game guns. They handle and shoot better for me than o/u's, but you see many more o/u's on the trap and sporting clay ranges.

I've always been unimpressed with the Rugers. They are clunky and over heavy in my view although practically indestructible.

I would stick to used guns, focusing mostly on Ithica/SKB, beretta or Browning. They offer more quality for the $ than the Turkish imports.

I've no interest in s x s or o/u's with barrels shorter than 28". For most applications, I prefer 6-6.5 lb guns however a heavier gun may be desirable if you only use it for clay sports.

Don't get suckered into the idea that you need heavy loads to do well. I can't remember missing a bird (live or clay) because I didn't have a heavier load.

The idea of getting tubes so you can shoot 20ga in a 12 is not a solution for shooting light loads. Just shoot light shotgun loads in the 12. I think the inserts are more useful for shooting 10 ga guns with more readily available 20 ga ammo.

The best choke combination for me is one open choke Cylinder or improved cylinder and the other modified or full.

I once had a gun with choke tubes. I set it up as described above and never changed the tubes. In my experience, choke tubes are overly fussy and certainly not worth a premium. You think they'll be a nifty solution and find you don't change them.

Look around, focus on used guns. You can find very good guns for under $2,500.00.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:49 AM
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Well, I have a Red Label 20ga Sporting Clays model (all that means is that it has 30" barrels and no covers on the barrel gap) It is a lovely little gun and I really like it a lot. Have never had any problems whatsoever with it (it's probably close to 20 years old). It is a lot shallower than the Citori and for that reason I prefer it. Pretty much personal preference though.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUSTON RICK View Post
... I have done some reading and lightly used the Browning Citori and Ruger Red Label. I would like to take lessons in skeet and sporting clays, but still be able to use this shotgun for hunting. I also want the ability to use chokes/tubes to change from 12 to 20 gage, in case I want a softer recoil in my golden years. I freely admit that I have no experience with chokes and barely know what they are or how they operate except from books. I also believe that at least a 28" barrel is preferable, but do not know if that is my unfounded bias. I am looking to have one DO IT ALL over under shotgun. Other than fit and feel, which features and which over under shotguns have you enjoyed in a DO IT ALL role. Thanks again for your wisdom, Rick
Both Browning and Ruger are good shotguns. What I would like you to look at as well is Fausti. Those are beautiful Italian made shotguns.

The Caledon for instance is on my bucket list.

Item# 15102, 12ga, 3" chamber, 28" barrel, A+ Turkish walnut with oiled finish, weighs approx. 7.25lbs and comes with 5 chokes.
And this all for $1,899 + $35 shipping.

Fausti USA - Products Caledon

You can buy choke tubes for use of sub gauge calibers, but they are expensive.
Briley Manufacturing, shotgun choke manufacturer and gunsmithing - Fitted Tube Sets

I'd rather invest that money in ammunition.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:06 AM
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Beretta 686 in 12ga, and add a set of Kolar tubes which will also allow 20, 28 or .410 to be shot in the same gun (depending on which tubes you have in at the time, obviously). You can probably get just a set of 20ga tubes, if that's all you want. That will still give you a very versatile setup. The tubes just slide in with no tools required. They can also be had with changeable chokes. Very nice system which works very well. I think a single gauge tube set retails for about $550-600.

Yes, costs more than an 870, but still within reach of the average shooting enthusiast.
A great all-around gun, very solid and well built.

That would be my choice.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:29 AM
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Obviously we have some shotgun veterans here. The OP said he wanted a do-it-all O/U.
Quote:
Sporting guns are too heavy to carry in the field and field guns are too light for the heavy use they will see in the clay games.
This is probably the most important information you will read anywhere about shotguns. Anyone who hunts and shoots clays seriously knows this and a novice will sooner or later discover this on their own after buying several guns that don't measure up for either task.

The best thing you can do right now is decide which sport you want to try first. Those of us who know both refer to these guns as target guns (for clays) and field guns (for hunting). Some people prefer one or the other for both sports but they are the exception and generally do it in spite of the handicap. If you truly want a do-it-all gun there are better choices than the O/U. I say this because the O/U is expensive and has morphed into mostly a target gun. One reason is the weight. They generally start at about 8 lbs. which is a light target gun and really too heavy for a field gun. My field guns are all about 6.5 lbs. Target guns are heavy to absorb recoil and take the added wear of thousands of rounds of ammo. I believe that Browning made an O/U that they tried to sell to both markets (GTS) but it didn't sell very well. Beretta tries this from time to time also but they never sell real well either. I think the Whitewing and Blackwing was their last attempt. I have a 20 ga Blackwing which is a nice light upland gun at 6 lbs but I prefer a sxs for the field.

If you really have to have a double go with an O/U for targets and a sxs for a field gun. If you want a do-it-all gun get an autoloader. You can have wood stocks, plastic or both, and buy used inexpensive barrels to suit your sport. Some even have adjustable stocks that use shims so you can get a descent fit without buying a custom stock. This too is very important. Autos are very common as target and field guns.

Don't get me started about British game guns and American classic sxs's. I could write a book.
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:48 AM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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Decision is made for over/under - no autoloader or SxS, - will be used primarily for Sporting clays and skeet at the range much more than hunting, but still want it serviceable, if heavy, for rare bird hunting. I can get something else for hunting if really needed. This will likely be the most expensive firearm that I buy. Thanks for all the good information! Rick

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Old 01-17-2015, 09:55 AM
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I have had a Red Label for over 20 years and have no complaints at all. It has been to SD 20 times and those SD roosters do not like to see it coming their way. I have shot sporting clays with it also. It is heavy, but I am sure it will be going strong long after I am gone.
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:28 PM
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I bought a used Red Label 12 gauge about 20 years ago. It was a 26" Skeet gun, that had been sent out for thin wall choke tubes. I wanted it for Sport Clays, too light and "whippy". So, I bought a used Browning Citori 30" GTI model (discontinued for around 20 years now) and learned Sporting Clays on that. I traded it for a used Citori 30" 425, and still have it, but I wish I still had my GTI. In Browning, all those different models mean , is the gun has different features. There are only 3 different Browning actions; Superpose, Citori,and The Synergy. They are all production guns, which means the features are standardized to a model, and the the fanciness is described in grades, I to VI (nowdays) or with fancy names (in the Superpose) When buying a used gun, don't assume it is factory original in the stock. Browning tries to keep the Sporting Clay guns a little long and traditional shooters have them cut short to fit their shooting and clothing styles!

I own 2 mid 60's Superpose and 6 Citori Brownings and only bought 2 new but on discontinued closeout. Of all those 3 are 20 gauge and 2 of those have 28" barrels. And that is what I would recommend for a well made all round Sporting, Skeet,and Hunting gun. Many or most have 3" chambers, some have porting, palm swells, and different fore ends. Spring is a good time to shop for used shotguns. Spend time in as many gun stores as you can, heft the gun to you shoulder, swing it in odd arcs including up if it comes away from your shoulder it is most likely too short. Plan on shooting lots of ammo, this is a very addictive sport! Skeet and 5-Stand are 25 bird rounds, Sporting Clays is 50 and 100 birds rounds. At one point 2 of my sons would go with me and together we would shoot 500 to 600 birds in an afternoon (youth shot for half price but the ammo cost the same). My personal record is 7, 50 bird rounds in one day. My most addictive form of Clays shooting has been 410 Bore. I took a friend (who is a much better shot than I am), and after a 12 gauge round, we did 410 and shared my 30" XS Citori. I warned him it was very addictive, but he laughed it off! By his third shot he was yelling at me for doing this to him. In six weeks he and his wife had spent $22,000 for 6, 410 shotguns! I'm just warning you! Ivan
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Old 01-17-2015, 01:39 PM
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I have only shot clays (50 round) and skeet a few times, but I am already hooked. I will not be spending $22,000 on six 410 shotguns - that much I do know! However, they will not let me take lessons with a Remington 870 Marine Magnum as much as I like it. I did use the Marine Magnum to shoot sporting clays once, it was not my highest score although I did disintegrate a bird with 00 buckshot (I had permission) and popped open the eyes of the bystanders. As always thanks for the appreciated advice! Rick

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Old 01-17-2015, 05:53 PM
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The Marine Magnum has only one flaw as far as the clay sports are concerned; fixed Cylinder choke. Change the barrel to a 28" with a rib and removable chokes (about a $200 part) and there should be no issues. The Cylinder choke is a serious detriment on those longer shots.

Of course the next question is, how much are you willing to spend? I understand that the goal is to spend as little as possible while still getting the best quality gun you can. Even so, there are a number of options out there.

My first choice for a new gun that fits the broad spectrum you want is the Caesar Guerinin Summit Impact. It fits your criteria perfectly and you'll be able to hand it down to your great grand kids. The problem is usually the $5,600 price tag.

The next choice would be the Beretta SV10 Perennia or Prevail. Either can be had for around $3K new.

Then I would consider the Browning 725 Skeet. This one can be had for around $2,700. The Cynergy Sporting (which I feel is a better design) can be had for around $2,300 new.

I'm still not a fan of the Red Label, but I do know a few people who are very satisfied with theirs.

Of course the used market is flush with shotguns. If you look hard enough, there are some great deals out there. I've seen older Citoris go for less than $1K, but you'll have to look to find them.


Ivan,
Just a note about the GTI. It was one model of the Citori that was issued, discontinued, reissued and discontinued again. It could be had new as recently as three years ago, but is not being sold new, now. Great model of Citori.
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:25 AM
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I bought one of these last year and am still getting used to it.

Citori Crossover Target, Over Under Sporting Shotgun, Browning Firearms Product
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:25 AM
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Rick, the best bet is to go try some. There are many inexpensive OU guns on the market. They would probably last a long time for hunting.

Once you go to Sporting Clays, Trap or Skeet you will need 2 or 3 different guns.

I've done them all. Shot in Sporting Clays state championships. Did I win, nope, 4th place once which did not mean anything.

What dies matter is fit as several have pointed out.

I've had Beretta and Browning OU guns. I like the Beretta better due to it's hinge pin which is lower in the action. To me a Browning is like holding a 2"x4".

My job moved me to a place where I could do Trap and Skeet but not Sporting Clays. I used a Model 12 Monte Carlo for Trap and a Beretta Semi auto for Skeet.

Go have a fit, you'll be glad you did.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:43 AM
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If I wanted an over under that was pretty versatile I would look for a lightly used and not abused Beretta or Browning 12 Gauge in a field configuration, with interchangeable choke tubes or chocked improved cylinder and modified to start with. Both are good solid guns and if properly taken care of and will be something you can hand down.

I prefer the Berettas because they fit me better than the Browning and fit is everything when it comes to shotguns. I also like Berettas because they tend to be a little lighter and slimmer than the Browning because of how they lockup. The Browning has the locking lug below the barrels and the Beretta has two tapered pins that lock between the barrels so they can be thinner top to bottom. Of course honestly both are great guns.

Now to gauge; it is myth that the 20 gauge kicks less than a 12 gauge. Recoil is function of payload weight and velocity. If the pay load is the same and moving at the same speed the recoil is the same. Weight of the gun will effect how much recoil you feel. Stock shape will also have some effect on felt recoil. You can purchase 7/8 oz. 12 gauge shells that replicate the standard 20 gauge load. Twelve gauges tend to be heavier so a 12 gauge shooting a 7/8-1 oz. load will likely have even less felt recoil. You want real pain buy a light 20 with a 3 inch chamber and start shooting full house three inch shells. I won't go into the inferior ballistics of a 20 gauge 3 inch shell.

There is nothing a 20 gauge can do that a 12 can't but there are things a 12 gauge can do that a 20 won't.

I'm not dissing the 20. I love a light 20 for carry in use in the field. It is rare to find a 12 gauge that weighs less than 6 1/2 lbs. but you can find 20s down under 6 pounds.

As to the Ruger Red Label I'm not a fan. The just introduced updated Red Label has already been dropped from Ruger's catalog and has been discontinued. Which happened a week after announcing a 20 gauge at Shot Show. They shipped 250 20 gauge guns and that will be it (hint for the Ruger Collectors it could be well worth putting a new 20 gauge away if you can find one.)

With all that said I'm really a side by side guy and have a safe full. AS I tell my wife a wise man use the right tool for the job. There are lots of shotgun jobs and no one shotgun will do them all. You're going to need more than one and maybe a dozen or two.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:51 PM
Pig Hunter Pig Hunter is offline
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If you must get an o/u the older used guns with fixed chokes will be less expensive. Also the older skeet guns with fixed chokes and 26 inch barrels may be your best bargain. Get a few lessons, and or listen to only one of the guys at the gun club as many will genuinely try to help but they tell you what works for them. At present reloading shotguns will be very limited by lack of powder. If you have a 12 ga. a lot of the skeet shooters at my club load 3/4 oz. loads and the birds break fine. The last round of trap I shot was with that 3/4 oz. load at 16 yards, and I was shooting as well as the college kids on the squad with me, with a very full choke LC Smith made in 1903. I can use 1 1/8 oz. loads in that gun , but break more birds with the light loads. Just remember to have fun with it. Mark
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:27 PM
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A 20 ga is mostly an upland bird gun and a clays gun for women and children. 7/8 oz is a standard 20 ga. load and a handicap on clays and some birds like waterfowl.
I beg to differ. A lot. I was never a waterfowl hunter; but my all-time favorite double gun for any and all purposes was a 20 gauge with three-inch chambers, choked modified and full. With magnum loads I feel sure it would have been quite adequate for ducks. It was a side-by-side; but one shouldn't underestimate the versatility and effectiveness of the gauge, especially in the longer length round. I never used 7/8 ounce loads, by the way.

Twenties are light to carry and fast-handling.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:36 AM
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I'd engage Rastoff in your search.

I do want to ask a question, why not get a field gun and add weight for clay games? (mercury weight in the stock)

12ga is the only way to go.

Added: Without a serious budget, you can't get direction. O'U's range from $400 to infinity
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:05 PM
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The fit of "any" shotgun dictates how well you are going to shoot it. Buy a gun that has "lasting" qualities, (a gun you can shoot 5000 rounds through a year and still keep going). Make sure it has choke tubes. If you are going to shoot sporting clays, it "needs" to be a double barrel, either O/U or S/S, so you can have two different tubes in at the same time. When I retired 10 years ago i traded my Remington Peerless off on a Browning Special Sporting Clays. The Remington just wasn't holding up. The Browning fit me with just a 1/4" take off the stock, the drop at comb and heel were fine, and the "0" castoff fit me. I use this gun for Sporting Clays and Skeet, and it doubles as a hunting gun as the Sporting Clays/Skeet comb height is closer to a field height. It does not work well for Trap, and I have a Browning BT99+ for that game, it needs a higher comb height and a little longer LOP. I tend to believe in the Browning statement, "Their guns wear IN, not out". I plan to continue to shoot these two for at least another 10 years, (hopefully I can still do it).
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:11 PM
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I do want to ask a question, why not get a field gun and add weight for clay games? (mercury weight in the stock)
It isn't about just weight but how that weight is distributed over the length of the shotgun that matters. Just adding weight to say the butt stock changes the handling dynamics of the shotgun greatly as would just adding weight to the barrels. Adding weight to the butt will give you a gun that might point well but won't swing well. Adding weight to the barrels will make the gun start slower to swing and will stop swing slower. Depending on how the weight is distributed a gun go from feeling dead between the hands and not swing worth a darn to feeling like a lively magic wand. Even a heavy gun can feel light and lively with proper weight distribution.

We often hear and read people talk about having a gun balance right at the hinge pin. A gun can balance where it should on the hinge but still feel dead.

The makers of the very best guns go to great length when striking (shaping and tapering barrels) and hollowing stocks to give the gun a proper feel and weight distribution to match the the preferences of the shooter. These are the kind of things over looked on many low end shotguns. A shotgun shouldn't feel like swinging a two by four or point and feel stable like a rifle.

I prefer my heavier guns to feel wight neutral and balancing near the hinge pin. As my guns get lighter I tend to prefer a slightly weight forward feel which helps keep the gun swinging because light guns tend to start swinging quick and easy but if balanced neutral at the hinge pin they also stop swinging just as fast. That quick point and swing can be great for quick point and shoot shots but doesn't work for me on longer crossing shots.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:17 AM
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I would say the first and most important thing is to find a gun that fits. A shotgun that doesn't fit well will likely make you miss more often than not.

I own a O/U SKB 20ga 28" BBL (Greener bolt safety). The only reason its 28" is because I couldn't find a 26" set. SKB is a Japanese gun who's factory closed a while back. They couldn't find workers as most of the fitting were done by hand. But there is an outfit in the US that still service these guns. As of four years ago, they were trying to find someone to make these guns. The Weatherby Orion used to be the same gun from the same factory.

It does not fit me. But I'm okay with it as I bring home half the birds I shoot at. But that's my pheasant gun. Ducks I would go 12ga as ducks are harder to hit.

When I was young, I used to shoot a lot of skeet. I would happily like to shoot more but there isn't a skeet range near me. Single barrel or O/U would be my perference due to sight picture instead of a SxS. With a cheap single shot, you could always go smaller gauge until it becomes challenging to you.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:03 AM
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No mention of a Winchester 101? Or is that too old school?
My husband shot trap off and on with one for years.
It was probably a 70's or 80's gun.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:05 AM
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No mention of a Winchester 101? Or is that too old school?
The Winchester 101 comes in two generations. The first is the old one made by Winchester. The second is the new version made by FN in Belgium. They are different guns.

The old 101 developed a reputation for "kicking" hard. This was unfortunate because it's simply not true. The issue was the way the stock was made; it didn't fit some people. This poor fit made the gun feel like it kicked harder.

The new one is not nearly the high quality the old one was. Still, it's not bad, just not as good as the current Browning offerings.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:04 AM
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The old 101 developed a reputation for "kicking" hard. This was unfortunate because it's simply not true. The issue was the way the stock was made; it didn't fit some people. This poor fit made the gun feel like it kicked harder.
Sounds about right, I remember him saying people either loved 'em or hated 'em. About 20 years ago he traded it for an Armi San Marcos 10ga O/U and used it to kill every goose in sight for 10 years
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