High Standard Derringers

[6thtexas]

I guess it is seeing the things when I was a kid, but I would like to get a pair of these things-one each in 22 Mag. and 22LR. Anyone else remember guns they thought were neat when they were in grade school but never got around to buying them?

I wish I had bought them years ago-what I see on line the prices are nuts!

[dawggunner]

I inherited a HS .22 mag derringer a few years ago. It is a base model, blue with black grips. Out of curiosity I took it to range a few months ago. It was reasonably accurate 10-15 feet. It sure is small, palm size.

[GatorFarmer]

I had one. You could set a paper plate perhaps ten feet away, aim at the plate, fire....and find no holes in the plate. Was amazing really. The fault with mine, an example of one, was that it badly keyholed. I had an NAA mini in 22 Mag that did the same, souring me on short .22 mag handguns. Maybe I had a bad one.

[smokey04]

I had, and still have, one I bought in 1967 or so. I took it to Viet Nam in 1970 because the Army was getting tough on privately owned weapons and I did NOT want to lose the Python I carried over there in my first two tours.
As it works out[without the gory details]I was captured by two stalwarts of the North Viet Army after being shot down.[I was an Aero Scout Pilot]. The two of them searched me, took everything I had including my boots, and started me off toward North Viet Nam and their reward for American pilots. What they didn't find was my H.S. derringer in .22 Mag., in the lining of my flight jacket. When the opportunity presented it self I killed one of them with a round just above the right eye. The other, was in the woods answering the call of nature and as he came out of the jungle with his AK in one hand and his pants in the other I broke his collar bone with the second shot. That gave me the time to get the first ones AK and finish off the second.
I'll say this, Viet mothers raised stupid children. They were so eat up with the reward they were going to get for my butt they couldn't "see the trees for the forest"! Too bad for them. .22 Mag H.S. derringer , heck yes. Lay your first finger along side of the barrel and use your second[social] finger to pull the trigger , you'll be surprised at the accuracy you can achieve with a little practice.
Not my first line defense weapon but, it was certainly more effective than a sharp stick in the eye. Nick

[Peak53]

that deafening silence you hear is the end of the great caliber debate, at least on this thread. did someone say a pistol is good to fight your way to ... uh, a rifle?

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Peak53

that deafening silence you hear is the end of the great caliber debate, at least on this thread...?

Add one more on the "shot placement is WAY more important than caliber" side of the ledger...

[Bigdog357]

I still have one, sorry for the crummy pic, its all I have. I carried it in many a bar in my younger years

[JohnRippert]

I've always been interested in one of the .22mag versions. If I see one with the right shape/cost ratio I will jump.

[Dennis The B]

My dad found one under his truck one morning, getting ready to go to work. They lived on a fairly busy street, and he suspected that someone pitched it out of a car rather than get caught with it. A friend of his on the Louisville PD, ran the serial number a couple of times and it never came back hot. He kept it; I inherited it.

I take it to the range occasionally, and marvel at its inaccuracy. I have tried the finger-along-the-barrel-middle-finger-on-the-trigger method, and it does work. I still have Dad's Safariland belt-clip holster.

I always figured it was the last thing I'd start shooting, before getting out the Estwick hand axe.

[Jhp147]

I had one of these to carry for a backup in the early 80's, along with the leather wallet that snapped around it and had a hole in it so you could fire it still in the wallet, and two loops to hold spare cartridges inside. Seems like the ATF at some point said you couldn't do that without some NFA stamp. There was no danger of me hitting anything with it, but I think the price of .22 mag ammo compared to .22 LR suppressed my desire to practice. And thanks to smokey04 for the account, excellent bit of pistolcraft!

[Otreb]

I have the D100 in .22lr, it actually does pretty well out to 50ft. The bbls are well regulated...better than any other derringer I've experienced including Bonds.


It gets pretty close to magnum velocities too with a decent 36-40gr load like the Velocitor.

[PALADIN85020]

In my experience with the little .22 LR version, I found I could "stage" the trigger almost to the point of letoff, and then squeeze the last fraction of an inch carefully. This gave pretty good accuracy with both barrels out to about 15 yards.

John

[Tom Kent]

I have a .22mag version that I carry all the time. At the range it shoots fairly well at up to ten feet. I have not tried it farther than that. It would be a last resort weapon and I feel confident with it,

[JayCeeNC]

I have two friends who have each killed an attacker with a HS .22mag derringer.
Can't argue with success.

[Buford57]

Originally Posted by Jhp147

I had one of these to carry for a backup in the early 80's, along with the leather wallet that snapped around it and had a hole in it so you could fire it still in the wallet, and two loops to hold spare cartridges inside. Seems like the ATF at some point said you couldn't do that without some NFA stamp. There was no danger of me hitting anything with it, but I think the price of .22 mag ammo compared to .22 LR suppressed my desire to practice. And thanks to smokey04 for the account, excellent bit of pistolcraft!

+1

I called mine my Onion Field Gun. It was an understudy to my M28 and Colt Agent and I'm not sure if in extremis I would have gone for the Derringer before my boot knife, but it was sorta comforting.

[inspcalahan]

When I first started my career, I was taught by some wise old cops to carry one in my boot, with a boot knife in the other boot. It was the "thing" back then. I remember taking off one side of the grip so the screw base would hook on the boot top and be laced tight. It was the backup of the time for sure. Mine is .22mag, probably less than 50 rounds through it in well over 20 years and I still have it.

Smokey04 - great write up!

[35Rem]

Originally Posted by 6thtexas

Anyone else remember guns they thought were neat when they were in grade school but never got around to buying them?

I thought the Rossi Cyclops looked cool. Sounded cool. 8" Stainless 357 magnum with full underlug. Scope mountable.

Sure glad I grew out of that!

[gwpercle]

30 cal. M1 carbine in the 60's could be had for $20.00 through the DCM to NRA members....I was a member and never ever got one! SHOOT!
Gary....a day late and a dollar short.
If someone would make that High Standard double derringer again , I would be first in line....this time!

[bvd1]

I have read negative comments about the trigger pull and it not being accurate. It is not a range gun.This is a close up, backup for me. I found this one this past year for $100 and like it for what it is meant for.

[153]

I had one in .22 Mag and carried it as an LEO for back-up. At night the little gun shot out a ball of flame about two feet long and nearly as wide. It was loud too. I took off the handles and wrapped some black tape over the holes in the frame, it was very flat and handy.

I stupidly later sold that pistol. But a few years back I spotted one at the LGS, it had been a "truck gun" and was pretty beat up. As it happened I had an old frame that had been laying around about 20 years. So I cleaned up the dinks and dents, bead blasted the steel parts, and reblued them. I fitted it all on the new/old frame and viola! A "like new" pistol, a friend found his old box and instructions, and it's complete.

Beyond a few feet I'm not so good with it. But close up I think it might set a bad guy's hair/clothes on fire ... bottom line, nice little handgun!!!

[eveled]

I saw a .22 mag one, it looked to be nice quality. I was tempted, but did not get it. I didn't want to get in the habit of carrying it instead of a J frame .38.

[BE Mike]

I carried one in .22 magnum as a back-up piece in the mid-seventies. I never had to use it, but it was comforting. I had the gun shop where I bought it send it back to High Standard to have the nickel finish redone, because much of it had flaked off. When they got it, they called the WWII grizzled vet owner and said that it looked like the pistol had been kept in a damp environment. He told me that he responded with something like, Yea, I guess so, he is a Florida cop and keeps it in his pocket! Re-nickel the gun and send it back soon, because he needs it for his work! I got the pistol back in a couple of weeks and the re-nickel lasted. I stupidly sold it a few years later.

[ISCS Yoda]

That's smokey's short version - his longer version is posted elsewhere on this Forum. Thank for the reminder, Smokey!

I have two of these. I carry one daily in the pocket of my robe as I meander about the house when I first awaken or later when I'm getting ready to go to sleep. One with black grips and one with white grips. I know I paid 200 dollars for the white one quite a few years ago, mid-1990s, I ALWAYS WANTED ONE! - and I believe I paid $250 for the black one maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I have never shot the latter; the former I have shot a few times at the range and I carry it in a Galco folding leather holster that is an AOW under the NFA rules when the gun is inside of it - and I have the $5.00 tax stamp making it legal.

Smith & Wesson Forum - ISCS Yoda's Album: Miscellany - Picture

Smith & Wesson Forum - ISCS Yoda's Album: Miscellany - Picture

Smith & Wesson Forum - ISCS Yoda's Album: Miscellany - Picture

You can tell I carry the one with white grips from the holster wear visible on it. The other one is pristine.

[Odinkar]

That's one of my wish guns. My dad carried one as a BUG in the 70's and I think it wa the first gun I ever shot. I need to find one w/ black grip in .22 mag for a good price on of these days.

[Ed Fowler]

Carried one in 22 mag for over 40 years, still do. Thankfully never had to use it other than practice. They are no target handgun, but plenty good enough for what they were made for.

Last one I saw for sale in a store was marked $400 about 3 years ago.

[Vulcan Bob]

They are neat little critters to be sure. Although I think the drill for self defense might go as follows.

1. Make sure it's loaded.

2. Make sure you carry it.

3. If needed, withdraw from carry position, press against target, pull trigger twice, turn and run.

4. If target is now chasing you, turn, throw it at pursuer, turn again and run some more!

Sorry folks I just couldn't help myself!

[Bat Guano]

Always thought they were kind of cool, but they were one of the things I never got one of. Part of my "recapturing lost youth" project was finding a nice one in .22 LR.

Usually I detail strip used guns I buy to clean out the crud of the ages, solidified Gunslick, and small arachnids. Managed to find instructions, etc. on the web, and took off the grips. Then I had one of those "do I really, REALLY want to do this" moments. The answer came back, "no."

The only other gun I get that vibe on is the Remington Nylon 66. I've only had to take one gun to the smith in a cigar box, and it was just too humiliating to repeat.

They're STILL a cool gun, though.

[Cyrano]

Bat Guano; I had that same problem with one of those little NAA 22 revolvers. Had to send it back to the factory to get put back together. That hammer pivot screw is left hand threaded for a reason.

[6thtexas]

Went to the gun show in San Antonio today. I did not find a HS derringer amongst all the plastic and tactical stuff, but did manage to find at least a little semi-precious stone (if not a jewel) in the rough





It has a good bore and locks up super tight with no play at all. The SA pull is great and believe it or not, the DA ain't too bad neither.

My youngest daughter may wind up with it, but I will play with it in the meantime.

[kaaskop49]

Funny how this thread has drifted into High Standard Derringer - Land! Back on point, Colt made a cool-looking .22LR semi-auto carbine in the late 60s. Took a pass on it.

Saw a nickel Colt Lawman MK III with 2" bbl in the early 70s, the earlier model with exposed ejector rod. Have lusted after that pistol ever since. A later blued 2" Lawman with shrouded ejector rod did nothing for me when I saw grips and holsters were nigh impossible to get. Also the Colt Lawman MK V snubby with the worst grip ever designed did not "fit my pistol."

Used to want one of the modern semi-auto Thompson carbines, but the weight and poor reliability reports threw me off.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[bvd1]

Originally Posted by kaaskop49

Funny how this thread has drifted into High Standard Derringer - Land!
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Maybe because the title of this thread is "High Standard Derringers".

[6thtexas]

I guess I have been on a kick in regards to what I thought was neat when I was a kid. I still want a HS derringer, but when I saw that short-nosed Sentinel it had to come home with me. The Sentinel looks like it would be right at home in an old Umco metal tackle box I got in '68.

[jimmyj]

I have had "Limited" experience with H.S. .22 Magnum Derringers.
1. I had one in the early 1970s that I could keep both shots in the "Kill" area of a B-27 Target at 25 yards.

2.While assigned to a "CDS" Unit in the middle 1970s the Unit's "Decoy" CCW one. During a incident the Decoy attempted to shoot the "BG" and the Derringer mis-fired. I think that the mis-fire was the result of the cartridges not being fully seated in the chambers.

3. In the early 1990s my shift supervisor carried one in his back pocket. The supervisor was somewhat "Heavy/Over Weight". During qualifications He was test firing His Derringer. Finally He said "Jimmy, see if you can hit anything with this Derringer. At 7 yards I was unable to hit anywhere on a B-27 Target ! I think the reason was that carrying it in the Supervisor's back pocket for months bent the frame/barrels ??

[unclejerky]

The trigger pull is LONNNGGG and hard. But, it's exposed so no complaints here, though. Nice little derringers. They look good too.

[6thtexas]

Well, I lucked into one yesterday and it even matches my Sentinel!



Had them both at the range today. The derringer really shot better than I thought it would. I did notice that once it got heated up good, the lower barrel had a tendency to keyhole. When it was cool it hit point on. Does the heat stress the barrel system? That is all I could think of.

Anyway, it bridges the gap between a 2" J frame and running shoes and is a real hoot to shoot.

Now, anyone have a suggestion as to what kind of ammunition to run through it? All I have now is some CCI 40 gr. HPs. How do the 50 gr. loads shoot? I was thinking about for practice getting some 22 WRF ammunition. Same case diameter and rim, but a lighter load with less wear on the gun.

[kaaskop49]

Hey partner! Love that little HS snub. You've got some cool guns there! As to derringer ammo, stick with the original CCI 40gr HP loads. They print POA at 3 yards, a realistic distance. The W-W loads, 40 and 45gr are also OK, the 40gr pretty much duplicates your CCI load.

I had keyhole-ing problems with the Hornady Critical Defense .22 Mag ammo. Bullet tipping at 9 ft distance is worrisome and undesirable. My gunsmith told me the rifling in these derringers is shallow; this may be a partial reason. Stick with CCI 40gr.

My 2 HS blued derringers have the black grips. They make the gun invisible at night in your hand when necessary. Stay safe, partner.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[Ivan the Butcher]

The 50 grain Federal 22 Mag ammo is made for revolver length barrels. I have various boxes of ammo dating bate to the 80's, the product number is 757.

I have one High Standard in 22 mag and it shoots well with 50 grain and key holes with 40 and 36 grain ammo. I have/had two of the Davis Derringers in 22 Mag. they shot fair with 50 grain.

The unusual thing is, I have a Derringer on the same pattern a the High Standard, but it is a stainless 38 special. Called a "DA", and made by BJT 445 Putnam Avenue Hamden, Connecticut 06247. The instruction booklet, list calibers as 38 special and/or 9mm Luger, but all the illustrations show a 22 Mag. This gun is alot heavier than a model 37 S&W, and about the same as a model 36, 2 shots and not as accurate! (and never use +P's!) Ivan

[Otreb]

Originally Posted by 6thtexas

Well, I lucked into one yesterday and it even matches my Sentinel!



Had them both at the range today. The derringer really shot better than I thought it would. I did notice that once it got heated up good, the lower barrel had a tendency to keyhole. When it was cool it hit point on. Does the heat stress the barrel system? That is all I could think of.

Anyway, it bridges the gap between a 2" J frame and running shoes and is a real hoot to shoot.

Now, anyone have a suggestion as to what kind of ammunition to run through it? All I have now is some CCI 40 gr. HPs. How do the 50 gr. loads shoot? I was thinking about for practice getting some 22 WRF ammunition. Same case diameter and rim, but a lighter load with less wear on the gun.

How did that Sentinel shoot for you?
I see a goofy pinkish anodized one just like yours at the shop, it's priced $175 IIRC....

[jtcarm]

smokey,

I thank you for your service and am sure glad you avoided what was by all accounts the living hell of being guest of the NVA.

That was certainly one time the little gun was superior to the big one, as they no doubt would have found your Python.

If the new HS were to reintroduce that gun, they wouldn't be able to make them fast enough.

[6thtexas]

That sentinel locks up tight and shoots surprisingly well. I have been very pleased with the double action pull. I think it is a keeper (unless one of the kids get it!)

[kaaskop49]

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

The 50 grain Federal 22 Mag ammo is made for revolver length barrels. I have various boxes of ammo dating bate to the 80's, the product number is 757.

I have one High Standard in 22 mag and it shoots well with 50 grain and key holes with 40 and 36 grain ammo. I have/had two of the Davis Derringers in 22 Mag. they shot fair with 50 grain.

The unusual thing is, I have a Derringer on the same pattern a the High Standard, but it is a stainless 38 special. Called a "DA", and made by BJT 445 Putnam Avenue Hamden, Connecticut 06247. The instruction booklet, list calibers as 38 special and/or 9mm Luger, but all the illustrations show a 22 Mag. This gun is alot heavier than a model 37 S&W, and about the same as a model 36, 2 shots and not as accurate! (and never use +P's!) Ivan

Great post, Ivan, thanks for the ammo info. That DA .38 derringer was picked up, I believe, by American Derringer. Heavier than a 37, no thanks. I'll stick to my .45 derringers.

Question for you: Do your .22Mag Davis D's shoot loose? I passed up one years ago because the lockup was not secure, bbls rattled.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[Ivan the Butcher]

I still have one 22 Mag. Davis D. and 2 in 32ACP. I have never had a problem with the small frame Davis' shooting loose and had friends with 38 specials that shot Black Powder loads in them for SASS side matches and the like. I would think a "Loose" Davis is the sign of a problem, either from the factory or more likely operator error! I load my 32's with soft lead 32 short loads for SASS and use Silver Tip Hollow Points for "other" uses. I found one in the gun vault the other day and opened the box. There was a note from about 30 years ago saying that with STHP it shot a 3" group, 16" high at 20' and there were 10 rounds from the box of ammo that did that. With a 32 short load in ACP brass they shoot a little better (with slow aimed fire).

I also have an American Derringer (I believe they are now Bond Arms) 357mag., traditional stainless steel derringer. I got it to shoot well by using a 158 LRN 38 non +P in the top barrel and a 110 grain STHP 357 in the bottom barrel = 2 to 3" group 10 yards and shoots to sights! without the mixed ammo each barrel win group about 1.5" but they are 17" apart. Depending which ammo you use, one barrel shoots to sights. These are the easy fixes, the guns that shoot left and right mixed groups are impossible to get shooting correctly! Ivan.

[Larry from Bend]

I bought one in 22 Mag in the 70s. Carried it on raft trips for years -- loaded with CCI shot cartridges. However, it developed a habit of misfiring. Had it fixed and after a while it started misfiring again. Light strikes. I took it to the gunsmith again and he said the problem was me carrying it in a back pocket. Can't remember the details, but he said I was like "stretching" the action. Anyway, I had it fixed (again) and traded it off.

I later bought a look-a-like from a company called Sundance Industries in Phoenix, AZ. Still have it.

[RichCapeCod]

I have three of these interesting little pistols; two in .22 magnum and one in .22 lr (D-100 and D-101). You guys might be interested in the leather gear I used with these pistols.

This is a D-101. I removed the grips and covered the little hole underneath with duct tape (keeps stuff out). Makes for a thinner handgun.


A D-100 and D-101.


An old Seventrees pocket holster.


A Null belt holster. OK, a little overkill...




An inside the waist band model. Either Null or Seventrees, I forget.

[JayCeeNC]

Nice leather, Rich.
Ken Null bought out Seventrees in the early 1970's.
I have a few Seventrees rigs, but they're few and far between.

[RichCapeCod]

Originally Posted by JayCeeNC

Nice leather, Rich.
Ken Null bought out Seventrees in the early 1970's.
I have a few Seventrees rigs, but they're few and far between.

I knew both Paris Theodore (Seventrees) and Ken Null. I have lots of their holsters. Some samples:

Custom TPH pocket holster from Null:


Seventrees SMZ for my TPH:


UNS for .22 PP from Null:


I had Ken Null make me a pocket holster for my Glock 19/23. OK, I'm a little weird:


Old Seventrees for my S&W 10. Carried that handgun in that holster lots during my NYPD career:


Well worn, well used Seventrees holster for my S&W 10. Used a great deal as a detective in NYC:

[John F.]

I've never had the pleasure of owning or firing one of these, but I do have a good account of one's use. Years ago, I attended college in Alabama, and a news story came out about an attempted robbery on the outskirts of Birmingham.

2 "gentlemen of leisure" came to a barber shop to rob it/the patrons. There was a customer in his late 70's who had a .22 magnum HS derringer which he'd reportedly NEVER FIRED BEFORE. Everyone cooperated with the robbers, handing over money, jewelry, etc. Then, they were ordered to lie down on the floor, face down.

The elderly customer figured that was the prelude to execution, so he surprised robber 1 by stuffing the derringer up under his chin, pointed toward the brain... BLAM! Instant kill. The other robber was in the process of turning around, when our hero nailed him in the head with his 2nd, and only remaining round. Instant drop. 1 DOA, one on life support!

When I visited the shops in Birmingham every so often, the proprietors would update me on the aftermath of the case. It seems that for months and months after the incident, the elderly customer kept getting congratulatory letters for his "job well done" -- that included money, and advice to use it to "buy yourself a REAL gun!"



John

[Old Corp]

As a teen working at a LGS in the mid-70's recall the HS .22 Mag Derringers were very popular with our State Troopers, who, IIRC, were prohibited from carrying a BUG.
Later, in 1980, I became an LEO, and our policy mirrored theirs, No BUG allowed. At all. I think it's a regional thing where BUG's are viewed as 'throw downs' and somehow 'not fair'. (Changed now)
I got one of the HS .22 Mag Derringers and carried if for many years in a Safariland flat wallet style holster. Wore most of the blue off of it. Thankfully, never needed it.
Later, it did tacklebox duty, loaded with CCI shotshells and accounted for several vipers with it.
Still have it, although not sure why.

[Frank237]

Worked with a cop in NJ back in the 1970's that had an old, original Remington, two barrel derringer in .41 Rimfire. Carried it with some Mexican ammo that was fairly recent at that time, had conical, lead slugs.

One day at the Range we shot it at maybe 15 feet into a phone pole that was alongside the pistol backstops. One rd penetrated HALF it's length, the next simply bounced OFF the pole and landed at the guys feet. Fairly quickly he traded it off for a new HS derringer in .22 mag and carried that. That gun was later stolen off his nightstand in a daytime B&E while he was at work. Apparently he and derringers were bad karma.

Back then Walther TPH's were very cheap on a Police letterhead. WISH I had bought one.

[CajunBass]

I remember seeing those High-Standard derringers for sale in places that didn't even sell guns regularly "back in the day." There was a department store near us called 'Miracle Mart" sort of an early K-Mart/Wal-Mart type place. They had a small sporting goods section and had those HS's in the case. So did an A&N store in Eastgate Mall...the first "mall" I ever saw.

I never got one, never really wanted one, but the guns I wanted a few years later, when I got out of high school were a Raven 25, and a RG-22. The only reason I wanted them was they were cheap enough that I could at least imagine being able to afford them.

I keep saying, one of these days, I'm going to buy one of each just for grins and giggles.