Hi, I had posted in another forum and the generous gentlemen in that forum told me to come over here for some other items I have. Could anyone help me identify these items?








This little gun only shoots two bullets...not sure what good it is or what it was used for. Looks like pearl handles, on one side says CAL .22 LR and made in Italy. Serial #584XX.


The next one is a rifle. It's kind of long. I didn't find any information on this one or wasn't sure where to look. It had two lanyard hook things.












And this one....It's not very long but is longer than any revolver or hand ejector. It doesn't use bullets that I can tell. Info on it says made in Spain, Serial # 0400XX, I couldn't make out all the writing but I think it says "Blacklock", 2 screws on the trigger guard, also has what looks to be "111KAD" or "111VID". Couldn't make it out well. Nothing is on the butt of the item.















Thanks for any information as they were my Grandfather's and he left no instructions. They just seemed weird to me.

The first one is an Italian copy of the Remington Double Derringer. They really have very little use. The barrels seldom shoot to the same spot, and most of the time neither barrel shoots to the sights. They are popular with many people, mainly because of TV westerns. Most gamblers on TV westerns carried Remington Derringers. See Remington Derringer. Derringer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The long rifle looks to be a Russian Mosin Nagant. This was the Russian military rifle from 1899 until after WW2. Shoots the 7.62x54R cartridge, which is readily available and fairly cheap. I've never shot one, but have heard they kick like a mule.
Mosin?Nagant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The third one, that you have nothing written about, appears to be a 22 "Boys Rifle". Single shot 22 Long Rifle. Work the bolt to load it, then pull the knob at the back to cock it. Made by the thousands, if not the millions, but just about every gun maker in the country, back in the early 1900s. A "first gun" for kids. Probably sold for less than ten bucks, prior to WW1. They still make similar guns today. Crickett, Chipmunk, Henry - they all make one.

The last one looks to be a Spanish copy of an English muzzle loading pistol. It uses black powder (not smokeless, like the other three do) and a lead ball. It is then primed with a percussion cap. This should give you an idea of how it works.



None of these guns are very valuable.

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The military rifle looks like a Mannlicher Carcano...possibly a Model 1941(could be wrong on the model..but it's a Carcano for sure)

Really? With that bolt?

I thought Carcano when I first saw it, and then that second picture - the one showing the bolt - just kinda screamed Mosin at me.

'Course, I ain't got either one, so I could easily be wrong.

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Looks like a Carcano but with what looks like a jacketed barrel it might be a Gew 88. Can you show a clear closeup of the receiver markings and rear sight?

Hmm..it does have a jacketed barrel!...Maybe it is a Gew 88??

Pretty sure the rifle in question is a GEW 88 or commission rifle designed by the germans. You are missing the cleaning rod. Do not fire anything in it until you have verified the bore dimensions. Some of these had Czech barrels that have smaller interior bore dimensions. If you do shoot anything in it, restrict yourself to only U.S. factory made 8mm mauser ammo. The U.S. stuff is purposely down loaded for all 8mm mausers and this while it isn't a mauser, 8mm mauser ammo can be fired in it. Do not shoot any mil surp ammo or european loaded 9mm as the pressures are not the same as the U.S. stuff. Much higher in fact. Looks to be in decent shape. Frank

Second one is definitely a German Gewehr 88, AKA a Commission rifle. Looks to be fairly unmessed with as I cannot see any added on stripper clip guides and it is still in a straight stock. Is it marked with a big S in the area over the chamber?

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Curious if any one can school me on the Cap and ball gun, My big question being is how do ya'll know it's a repro? Is it the condition?

Mainly because it is marked with the country of manufacture. US regs require that on imports. Originals weren't so marked.

Also it says Black Powder on it. You said "black lock", but I bet if you used a strong magnifier, you'd see it says Black Powder Only. When the originals were made, black powder was all there was, so they did not have that on them.

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Hi and thank you all for responding so quickly. I don't mean to be so ignorant, but what the receiver? I know the rear sight but not the receiver so I can't take a photo...

LVSteve, thanks I will try and look tomorrow and see if I can find an "s" marking. Let you know thanks.

Just wanted to say thanks to all who replied. It is appreciated. We found the guns and didn't know where to begin as there were no documents or instructions left with them. I guess that's a lesson in making sure if you're not using something that might be collectible to at least put a written note with it. Will get back to you on those that asked for clarification.

Darlin, the piece I've circled is the receiver. It's the part that the other pieces are attached to to make a gun. The barrel is screwed into the front of it, the bolt slides in from the back of it, the trigger is attached to the bottom of it, as is the stock. Without the receiver, all you have is a bunch of parts.

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Nice Turk. Does it shoot well?

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Not my gun, Steve. Just a good closeup of a receiver, that I found, that I could use for a visual.

Now you got me puzzled. To me, a "Turk" is one of them Turkish 98 Mausers - they call 'em 48s, I believe. That thing I posted don't, to me anyways, have even a passing knowledge of Peter Paul.



I just did some digging, before posting, and found the 1890 Turkish Mauser, which might be what you're talking about, but while it appears similar, the magazine is different.

Turk Mauser - Model of 1890



Okay, I'm finding all kinds of neat stuff as I research your question.

Turk Mauser - Gew. 88

So that could be a Gewehr 88 given to the Turks in WW1, modified to take the S .323 bullet.

But how could you tell it was that, and not a German?

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Turks...German...Goodness. Thanks for the visual. I'll try to get over there tonight and get a close up photo. You all have a good day.

The welded on stripper clip guides making it a GEW 88/05 were the clue for me. I have yet to see one that did not have Turkish provenance and markings.

That has to be the cue for collector to show us one.

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This thing?

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Yes. The original GEW 88 did not need stripper clip guides because it used an en bloc clip. The GEW 88/14 had the guides machined into the receiver, or so I'm told because they are rarer than hens' teeth and I've never seen one.

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Hey there, I finally went and took some more photos. I apologize for taking so long. I also found some more information as I knew what to look for after you guys had been discussing these items.


On the back part there is a number "17" and on the side of the chamber area there is I guess a model number of "4117".





Then on the chamber part there is an "S" at the top and on the bottom is what appears to be "EREURT" and "1890". There is no clip thing like you've shown in the previous photo.










Thanks so much and have a great day.

ERFERT is the company that made it. As a military gun, it could have been made by any of several companies. The 1890 is the year it was made.

The gun originally took the military cartridge that used a .318 diameter round-nosed bullet. The military cartridge was changed to use a larger bullet - .323 diameter - with a pointed nose. This pointed nose bullet style is called a Spitzer. That S shows that your gun has been converted for use with the larger SPITZER bullet.

4117 would be the serial number, and many of the parts would be stamped with with last two numbers - 17. This is referred to, when speaking of a German military gun, as "matching numbers.

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4117 is the serial number. 17 is its last two digits stamped on parts to help keep them with their original rifle when it was disassembled.

About 1907 when lighted streamlined bullets replaced heavier round nose bullets German 8mm Mauser, also called 7.92x57mm Mauser, was changed so much that it became unsafe to fire the newer cartridges in old rifles like yours. Along with changing to a pointed or spitzer bullet the bullet diameter was increased and the pressure produced by the powder was raised. IF your receiver ring has a prominent S that stamp was added when as an emergency war time expedient it was altered to fire the newer cartridges. I don’t see the S in your pictures and even if it is under the rust I advise against firing WWI and later European cartridges. IF the S is there firing the down loaded hunting cartridges Remington and Winchester traditionally loaded would be O.K.

Thank you so much Alpo and K22fan. I may have missed it but what do you think the gun is? I remember Gewehr 88, Carcano, and Turks. Oh we won't be firing it. Plan to try to spiff it up some and the other items. Does it offer any value just an approx? Also where might a civilian get one of these? I do appreciate all of you helping out with your time.

1. It is a German Model 1888 "Commission Rifle" made in Germany in 1990. The city where it was made is on the receiver ring.

2. Millions of these were made and hundreds of thousands if not millions were imported into the U.S. as surplus so value is low. Probably under $100 but we'll see if some one who has shopped for 1888s recently gives a different value. Turkey was mentioned because the Germans sold them to Turkey and Turkey also manufactured them.

3. Since it was made before 1898 it is exempt from most Federal gun control laws so distributors can ship them directly to civilians in most states. Some sporting goods stores do a regular business in reselling surplus military rifles. Before 1968 modern guns could be purchased mail order and tons of military surplus rifles were sold inexpensively. 1888s were not first choice hunting rifles. My guess they sold for under $10 in the 1960s.

Thanks, K22fan! Thank everyone of you for the information.