Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics
o

Notices

Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics Post Your General Gun Topics and Non-S&W Gun and Blade Topics Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-06-2015, 10:22 PM
bengal fan's Avatar
bengal fan bengal fan is offline
SWCA Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 484
Likes: 1,517
Liked 2,909 Times in 236 Posts
Default My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1

Hello all,
I wasn't looking for a 1911, but when I found this one the other day at a LGS I decided to bring it home with me
This is a arsenal 1943 Colt that was sent to Springfield Armory at some point. It has the matching P on the frame, slide & barrel, however it has a Remington Rand barrel & the slide does not # to the frame. The gun seems to be in good shape except for the idiot marks on the slide around the slide release pin. I realize from researching these Guns that the arsenal guns do not have the collectors interest & value as the all matching 1911's, but this is a cool gun none less that served during the War!
The gun came with this Sears holster also. I have tried to research it to see what's the value of this type holster, but prices seem to be all over. Any thoughts on value of holster?

I welcome any other info or observations you may have on this gun & thanks for looking!






__________________
Paul
SWCA #2864
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-06-2015, 10:42 PM
Rustyt1953's Avatar
Rustyt1953 Rustyt1953 is offline
US Veteran
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Posts: 44,122
Likes: 61,588
Liked 188,366 Times in 36,197 Posts
Default

I know "coveting" is wrong but I don't know what else to call it.
__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 04-07-2015, 12:30 AM
Xfuzz's Avatar
Xfuzz Xfuzz is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Gulf Coast...
Posts: 5,502
Likes: 9,904
Liked 22,931 Times in 3,222 Posts
Default

The frame numbers match that of a Colt.
I don't recall numbers on the slide.
Looks like a solid Colt 1911 (1943) from
what I can tell.
The holster values at about a C note.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-07-2015, 12:45 AM
italiansport italiansport is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 2,905
Liked 5,333 Times in 1,869 Posts
Default

Field strip the pistol and remove the firing pin retaining piece from the back of the slide. Push in the firing pin and it will just slide off but be careful as the f.p. is under spring pressure. The serial number of the slide should be underneath.
Jim

Last edited by italiansport; 04-07-2015 at 12:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 04-07-2015, 11:23 AM
Lee Barner's Avatar
Lee Barner Lee Barner is offline
US Veteran
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 3,951
Likes: 25,549
Liked 15,844 Times in 2,174 Posts
Default

colt quit numbering slides in the 1,130,000 range so if it doesn't have one it could be the original slide. nice pistol and getting hard to find in any condition. congratulations. sears saddlery was located in Iowa, Des Moines I think. lee
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 04-07-2015, 12:05 PM
LoboGunLeather's Avatar
LoboGunLeather LoboGunLeather is offline
US Veteran
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,518
Likes: 19,273
Liked 32,340 Times in 5,474 Posts
Default

Springfield Armory rebuilt/refurbished pistol, typical of the post-WW2 period (primarily after Korea and through the 1960's). The armories and depots involved in the program typically disassembled all of the pistols received, checked each part for wear, replaced anything requiring it, and reassembled the pistols with no effort to keep it original. Pistols then went to depots for storage and re-issue as needed by various active or reserve units, sent out as foreign aid, and many were eventually sold as surplus during the 1960's and 1970's (price was about $20.00 per back then, inside a cardboard box with VPI paper wrapping).

Not unusual to see these pistols with frame by one maker, slide by another, barrel by another, and small parts from every conceivable source. Even S&W got into the contracting, providing barrels with heavily chrome-lined bores (I have a couple) for the rebuilds. Most (but not all) were marked on the frame with initials of the armory doing the rebuild (Springfield Armory = SA, Augusta Armory = AA, etc).

Sears Saddlery was one of several companies making the M1916 Dismounted Holster during WW2. Should have a leather-covered wooden stiffener on the interior (although many were removed by the troops).

Values will depend on the buyers. The pistol as shown should probably bring $800 or so, but there are those out there who will pay more. Holster, assuming it is complete and unaltered, probably $75 to $100 or so.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 04-07-2015, 07:39 PM
dmar dmar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,545
Likes: 3,089
Liked 2,924 Times in 1,067 Posts
Default

Nice find Bengal Fan, that's a nice looking GI Colt! I'm not an expert, but I don't believe that slide stop is original, as I believe that year Colt should be checkered.

Here's a picture of my 1943 Colt. Not a great photo, but the gun is in very nice condition and it is supposed to be a matching/"correct" gun. I know the slide matches the frame, and has the right barrel, etc...

I really don't know the value of it, I bought it several years ago when the market was fairly high... I've also got a Boyt holster for it.

I also have a nice matching Remington Rand, but like the Colt better. You really can't go wrong with any decent Colt GI 1911, they seem to keep good values. I hope you enjoy shooting yours. How does the bore look...? BTW, my RR has the slotted slide stop like your gun.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (95.3 KB, 67 views)
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 04-07-2015, 09:04 PM
bengal fan's Avatar
bengal fan bengal fan is offline
SWCA Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 484
Likes: 1,517
Liked 2,909 Times in 236 Posts
Default

Thanks to everyone for your info & opinions! The slide is serial# but doesn't match the frame. The bore is in exceptional shape.
I'm looking forward to taking it out shooting real soon!
__________________
Paul
SWCA #2864
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-08-2015, 02:10 PM
fyimo's Avatar
fyimo fyimo is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 18,773
Likes: 6,048
Liked 5,762 Times in 1,992 Posts
Talking

Congratulations on the purchase
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 04-08-2015, 02:32 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Banned
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
Default

That's a nice looking pistol.

I'm curious...why do you say it has a Remington Rand barrel? And are there any markings on the floor plate or toe tab of the magazine?

I also have that same Sears holster, almost like new, except mine doesn't have the rawhide thong with it. I'm seeing them go for $100 and up now.

Last edited by Watchdog; 04-08-2015 at 02:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 04-08-2015, 02:34 PM
jculloden's Avatar
jculloden jculloden is online now
US Veteran
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Very North Florida
Posts: 596
Likes: 1,791
Liked 306 Times in 116 Posts
Default

Your's and mine are 1075 serial #s apart 1186611

Pretty much same shape except for frame idiot dings, I haven't it shot in 20 years

Enjoy,, they are getting hard and expensive to find

Last edited by jculloden; 04-08-2015 at 02:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 04-08-2015, 05:12 PM
scott1970 scott1970 is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 630
Likes: 351
Liked 1,961 Times in 331 Posts
Default

That is a handsome old warhorse!

I've been fortunate over the years to be able to own a variety of firearms, but I've only ever had one that absolutely ain't for sale, It happens to be a Colt 1911 from 1943 with matching slide and frame which never got arsenal overhauled. On top of that, I got to meet the man who carried it during WWII in England, France, Holland, and Germany. He was allowed to return home with his Colt 1911. We had some very personal conversations about WWII. I watched tears run down his cheeks as he told me of the horrors he experienced during WWII. I cherish the time we spent together as much as I do his Colt.

Capt. Hammer was called back up as a Major about the time of the Korean War. He took the same Colt 1911 with him during the Korean War while he was stationed in Japan. He remained in the military and retired as a Lt. Colonel. He kept the Colt 1911 and his original WWII holster until I ended up with it.

It's a poor picture, but here is Maj. Hammer's original Colt 1911, the holster he carried it in during WWII, and his Korean War era foot locker. He died a few years ago. I get his Colt 1911 out about once a year and clean it.


Last edited by scott1970; 04-08-2015 at 05:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-08-2015, 05:32 PM
italiansport italiansport is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 2,905
Liked 5,333 Times in 1,869 Posts
Default

Considering the amount of carry this pistol saw it appears to still be in excellent condition.
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-08-2015, 05:48 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
SWCA Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA & SoFL
Posts: 8,644
Likes: 469
Liked 5,697 Times in 3,186 Posts
Default

made me break out my 6 1911A1. Just to appreciate them more. Bought them back in the 1960s. Nice gun. Mike 2796
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 04-08-2015, 06:31 PM
scott1970 scott1970 is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 630
Likes: 351
Liked 1,961 Times in 331 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by italiansport View Post
Considering the amount of carry this pistol saw it appears to still be in excellent condition.
Jim

It has a far amount of finish wear on the slide from sitting in the holster for decades and decades. His family wasn't interested in his WWII guns which included a 1920s era civilian Luger surrendered to him at the close of the war and a genuine MP40 he brought back and amnesty registered in 1969. Go figure.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-08-2015, 08:52 PM
bengal fan's Avatar
bengal fan bengal fan is offline
SWCA Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 484
Likes: 1,517
Liked 2,909 Times in 236 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WATCHDOG View Post
That's a nice looking pistol.

I'm curious...why do you say it has a Remington Rand barrel? And are there any markings on the floor plate or toe tab of the magazine?

I also have that same Sears holster, almost like new, except mine doesn't have the rawhide thong with it. I'm seeing them go for $100 and up now.
The barrel has a HS stamp on one side & a P on the other. I thought that signified it was a Remington Rand barrel, I might be wrong.
The magazine has no markings on it.
__________________
Paul
SWCA #2864
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-08-2015, 09:02 PM
scott1970 scott1970 is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 630
Likes: 351
Liked 1,961 Times in 331 Posts
Default

I have to know if you've shot it yet. If so, how do you like it? If only these old guns could talk.

I keep looking back over the pictures you posted. That really is a very nice old WWII 1911. Congratulations on the acquisition.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 04-08-2015, 09:17 PM
bengal fan's Avatar
bengal fan bengal fan is offline
SWCA Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 484
Likes: 1,517
Liked 2,909 Times in 236 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott1970 View Post
I have to know if you've shot it yet. If so, how do you like it? If only these old guns could talk.

I keep looking back over the pictures you posted. That really is a very nice old WWII 1911. Congratulations on the acquisition.
I haven't shot it yet. I bought the gun on Saturday & when I got home I realized I didn't even own any 45 ammo. Im out of town this week for work, but plan on shooting it very soon. Thanks for the complements!
__________________
Paul
SWCA #2864
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-08-2015, 09:29 PM
shouldazagged shouldazagged is offline
Absent Comrade
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 19,336
Likes: 53,737
Liked 38,386 Times in 11,801 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustyt1953 View Post
I know "coveting" is wrong but I don't know what else to call it.
You could call it lust. I did.
__________________
Oh well, what the hell.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 04-08-2015, 09:58 PM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,581
Likes: 13,500
Liked 6,743 Times in 2,526 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal fan View Post
The barrel has a HS stamp on one side & a P on the other. I thought that signified it was a Remington Rand barrel, I might be wrong.
The magazine has no markings on it.
The "P" means it was proof fired. HS is for High Standard, who made the barrel. Rem Rand didn't make barrels and most of them carried High Standard barrels, as did the Ithacas. Colts generally had Colt barrels.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 04-09-2015, 01:02 PM
LoboGunLeather's Avatar
LoboGunLeather LoboGunLeather is offline
US Veteran
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,518
Likes: 19,273
Liked 32,340 Times in 5,474 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal fan View Post
The barrel has a HS stamp on one side & a P on the other. I thought that signified it was a Remington Rand barrel, I might be wrong.
The magazine has no markings on it.
Barrel marking "HS" indicates manufacture by High Standard, one of several WW2 producers on subcontract for Remington-Rand, Ithaca, US&S, as well as replacement barrels for maintenance facilities.

Magazine with no markings on the toe, assuming WW2 production, would be from Colt. Other makers includes Little (L), Risdon (R), General Shaver (G), American Pin Company (A), and a couple of others. Colt provided magazines of their own production (unmarked) as well as subcontract magazines from Little (C-L) and Risdon (C-R).

Just about everybody in the firearms business was making something to go into M1911A1 pistols, and replacement parts were made by many others in the decades following WW2. I have seen slides by Savage, barrels by Smith & Wesson, and a dozen other oddballs, usually installed on the arsenal rebuilds.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 04-25-2017, 01:41 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Banned
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
Default

I know this is an old thread, but I stumbled across it and took a second look.

My source shows that with this serial number, this is actually a 1944 Colt. 1944 serial numbers began with 1155000.

Not that this really matters...it's just something I noticed. It's a great old pistol, no doubt about it. Wish it belonged to me.

I'm also curious about what appears to be a number stamped under the ordnance wheel stamp on the right side. Looks to be the number "10". I've never seen that before. Anyone know what that could signify?

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-25-2017, 01:51 PM
HARDWARE HARDWARE is offline
Member
My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1 My first 1911 is a 1943 Colt 1911A1  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 777
Likes: 269
Liked 2,735 Times in 508 Posts
Default

might be a "rack number". they can be stamped on the frame or painted on the grips.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTS: Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1 BOOK - Charles W. Clawson jmanrogers Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 12-03-2011 06:46 PM
Price Check on a WW2 Colt 1911 mfg in 1943? GatorFarmer Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 7 12-14-2010 11:50 AM
FS:SOLD__ Colt USGI 1911-A-1 matching slide 1943-NICE Rig GA.Price Drop-$1900 Waltherman GUNS - For Sale or Trade 1 08-05-2010 04:36 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)