OutdoorHub
1 hr ·

Civilian Marksmanship Program May Soon Offer Vintage M1911A1 Pistols Civilian Marksmanship Program May Soon Offer Vintage M1911A1 Pistols | OutdoorHub
Civilian Marksmanship Program May Soon Offer Vintage M1911A1 Pistols
Firearm collectors may soon be able to get their hands on vintage 1911 pistols through the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), thanks to an...
outdoorhub.com

So how would someone get on the list to buy one?

They may sell them on a first come basis, like they do with regular Garands or auction them off like they do with M1D's and M1C's and other collectible long guns.
I'll be watching for sure either way.,

__________________
Sure you did

I would be shocked if Congess approved and either Obama signed, or his veto was overridden. Don't hold your breath.

I'd love to see it happen, but I ain't holding my breath.

I'm not setting aside any funds for one of these, I don't think they will ever be available. Hope I am wrong, but will wait and see.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Apparently CMP must change part of their charter to sell handguns.

Not likely to get approval by current administration in any case.

They will probably have an import stamp like a bill board. May even require one of those orange cones permanently attached to the muzzle.

The reality is that the Government owned 1911s really are obsolete.
According to what I've read no 1911s have been purchased since 1945
and all probably have been refurbished several times. If sold the prices
probably would not be cheap and lots of money could be raised. The
old single action single stack 45s are pretty tame compared to what
consumers can buy everywhere today so the time may have come.

I'm still waiting for them to release their stash of .45c SAA's....

Larry

This move of these guns to the CMP could take place. These guns are stored at the Anniston Army Depot and the CMP operations is in Anniston, so the physical transfer would be simple and the idea of keeping the $ 2 per gun per year fee on storage is not conducive to good management. The CMP appears to the only legal way for the Government to move these "obsolete" guns into the marksmanship program. The $ 20 million shooting range by the CMP is now open and headed to the first year of operations this summer. Let us hope these pistols make their way to the CMP. I will be getting on the list. For those of you who want to become listed to purchase from the CMP, start now, as it took a few months for my approval years ago and there was no rush created by new products at that time. It could take a few weeks, M Orest runs the CMP and it is something to visit the facilities and see how large they are and how well managed the activity has become. I hope to make a trip to the new range and participate in the 22RF pistol matches some time this summer.

Both Orest and his wife, Nina retired last year.

As stated by another poster above, the CMP would need a charter change to sell any weapons but long guns. Don't think this will happen in DC.

I could be wrong but I heard that the law that would authorize the transfer would also authorize the CMP to sell handguns.

I really would like to see this happen as the CMP needs additional sources of revenue as the stockpile of Garands shrinks. However the likely hood of this happening given the political climate not very likely. According to an article yesterday in the Huffington Post Even the Army is opposed to releasing the guns to the CMP. They don't want untraceable military-grade handguns set loose on the streets...

I'll take a few of those obsolete guns should they become available.

__________________
Sure you did

Huff Post:

A spokesman for Rep. Adam Smith (Wash.), the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, said his boss agreed with the Army and would try to strip the amendment.
"This provision, which the Army has said it does not want or need, could potentially put nearly 100,000 untraceable .45-caliber military-grade handguns on our streets," the spokesman, Michael Amato, said in an email. "This provision is an unnecessary risk."




These guns were made before serial numbers? Military grade? Scary!

__________________
Sure you did

Was wondering if you bought from the CMP in the past(15 yrs.ago) would you already be on their list and approved?
I'm sure you'd still have to show a current affiliation with an approved gun club.

If your approval form is 3 years old or older, you must submit a new, notarized application and other required documents.

From today's news


WASHINGTON — An amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) offered by Congressman Mike Rogers (R-AL3) and approved by the U.S. House Thursday would allow Americans who can lawfully own a handgun to purchase retired .45cal Colt 1911 sidearms from the military.
By expanding the decades-old Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), the amendment will make available approximately 100,000 of the weapons up for purchase by members of CMP-affiliated clubs provided they can prove:

– They are a US citizen
– Of the legal age
– Belong to a CMP organization
– Provide proof of marksmanship or firearms-related activity, including: military, law enforcement, firearms instructor, hunter safety course with live fire training
– Are legally able to own a firearm
– Pass a background check by FBI NICS and any state firearms license, permit or ID requirements.

“As a gun owner and strong believer in the Second Amendment,” Rep. Rogers told Yellowhammer News Friday afternoon, “my proposal is a common-sense approach to eliminating an unnecessary cost to the Federal government while allowing the very capable CMP to handle the sale of these vintage firearms that otherwise would just sit in storage. This amendment is a win – win for the taxpayer. I was pleased the amendment passed the committee and appreciate the support my colleagues on this proposal.”

Rogers’ amendment was derided by some in the media as a way for “untraceable” guns to be shuttled onto the market, an argument that was quickly shown to be fallacious by supporters.

The NRA sent Rep. Rogers a letter of gratitude for his work on introducing the amendment highlighting the importance of the program.

“As you are aware,” wrote NRA director of Federal Affairs Jason Ouimet, “the CMP performs an important role in providing instruction on responsible firearms use through safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP’s primary source of funding comes from the sale of surplus military rifles, parts, and ammunition transferred to the CMP from the U.S. Army. Allowing the U.S. Army to transfer surplus M1911A1 pistols to the CMP for resale would help ensure the CMP’s funding for the future.”

The NDAA, including Rogers’ amendment was approved by the U.S. House Thursday, and travels next to the Senate.

This has already sailed past the House and the same will happen in the Senate. Because it is an amendment to the NDAA, it will most likely be signed by Obama with little fanfare.

The Army is just taking the progressive line ordered by the White House. The senior leadership is following the age old Army heirarchy policy of "going along to get along".

As far as being traceable, it is pure smoke and mirrors. The pistols are all marked US property and as are all military weapons, serial numbered. If the ATF had a pistol that was so marked, all they would have to do is call CMP and see if it was one of the pistols that was (soon to be) sold. Apparently the ATF is too stupid to think of that. The National Trace agency , when looking at where a firearm came from, starts with the manufacturer. Apparently the Army and the ATF cannot figure out on their own that the new "manufacturer of record" would be the CMP.

Typical Federal alphabet agency nonsense.

__________________
Bud
Lots of S&Ws

They really are obsolete just like my Garands, 98 Mausers
and several other types I own but if they become available
I wouldn't mind having a couple myself.

I've bought a few Garands from the CMP and would be interested in a 1911. But I have a feeling that UNLIKE the reasonably priced Garands, these 1911's will be big bucks. They might even go the M1 Carbine route and auction them for big bucks. They're not worth what a high end 1911 is going for.

I'll stay tuned though. Nothing on the CMP website.

I agree with this - bottom line is this is very good news. The CMP will set market prices on the beaters and auction the rest for big bucks. Selling old military arms is their funding source.

In the past few years, the CMP seems to be more profit oriented, even though they are not supposed to be. Prices on everything they sell is up. 50 year old ammo goes up every year. Garands are still a good deal for what you get, but they keep getting more expensive too. I bet the beater 1911's go for more than 800 bucks a pop.

For sure waiting to see what happens,but I am not overly optimistic. Lot of politicians are not our friends.

__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere

The CMP now has a new, state of the art, shooting range that is opening this year. They need funding to keep it operating and open to the public. In this time when our ability to own, shoot and enjoy firearms is under attack by the liberal, we should all hope they receive these 1911's so we can all travel to their new range and participate in the competition. I think you people here are correct, these "clunkers" will bring $ 800- $ 1000 and will sell to become collector safe queens. The really good stuff will go to their auction and bring in thousands of dollars each. Enjoy the game, and plan a trip to Anniston to enjoy the new range. its located two miles due south of the Talladega Raceway on I-20 and remember, our tax dollars and wise politicians who set up and maintained the CMP, built this facility for our enjoyment.

I don't care what they sell for I'm buying one nontheless, there's no price on history

__________________
Sure you did

I wonder how many of the hundreds of thousands M1 rifles, M1 carbines, M1903's or M1917's distributed to the public through the CMP have made it into the hands of street thugs who have committed heinous crimes with them. I'm thinking if there was even one there would be some liberal gun hater who would march up the hill demanding the CMP be shut down.

__________________
- Change it back -

Well, I've bought a few Garands from the CMP, and lots of ammo and accessories, so I have no bias against them. For a Garand, there's no other place to go. Gun in thoroughly checked over and you get that certificate of authenticity.

But I gotta say, I really don't care about a range in Alabama that I'm never gonna use. As a matter of fact, the only people who do use it will be residents of Alabama, and the occasional visitor. It's not like Alabama is a hot tourist spot.

The goal of the CMP is to encourage marksmanship. They do that by offering firearms at a low cost. Raising the prices on guns and ammo sure ain't gonna encourage marksmanship.

But 800 bucks for a GI issued 1911, while being more expensive than they should be, isn't totally obnoxious. But since they're not gonna get as many of them as they have rifles, they're probably gonna go the auction route, so they'll be above 800.

Just wondering on what % of these have been re-built 2or 3 or more times since issued up to 100 years ago? Think there are any with all original parts?

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I am not a huge fan of the CMP, only purchase one gun, a 40X 22LR and some occasionally ammo. That said, I do not agree with your assessment of the new range. They built a state of the art indoor air rifle range years ago in Anniston. I understate the Olympics were conducted here and I know that Team USA used it for all the practice. Camp Perry is in the north and appear to be a large shooting event at times during the year. With a new state of the art range in Alabama, I think you will see national and possible international events taking place here. Remember, its 2 miles from the Talladega Raceway so the community has an over population of Motel and Restaurants and the community understands how to conduct itself when 200,000 "out of towners" come for a week. You should be proud that someone is building new ranges. Some people desire to go and compete with their Garands. I support their desires, I had rather play with my revolvers and long range rifles and may never actually make that range except to go one time to just see what "2015 state of the art" looks like and will think, they could never have built this in NY or "up east". Remington keeps moving people and machinery To Hunstville. Looks like the Southeast and Northwest will eventually have most of the USA firearms productions Just proud to call Alabama home in 2015 and think you are off base on usage of the new range, as a lot of people who use Camp Perry are not just from Ohio.

Well, I disagree. Money spent on a range that a fraction of the population will visit is not worth raising prices on guns and ammo.

Every "obsolete" 1911 in the US inventory should be refurbished by an armorer and boxed with a spare magazine then presented to retiring members of the armed forces to do with as they wish.

A symbol of their years of service and a token of grateful citizens' appreciation.

__________________
A real sucker for the J-frames

Hello, I just thought I would add a small bit of info on the expensive new range. My daughter, 10th grade, will be going with her HS Jr. ROTC rifle marksmanship team to Alabama in June. I can't imagine they will be going anywhere else than to this exact range. Kids need to be exposed to shooting in order to pass this idea on to the next generation.

I would think that any range would be expensive, and at least one of the local ranges they go to was closed over "lead issues". I tend to think that whatever they can do to close a range they will do.

I've been told that she has great potential as a college shooter and this could lead to a scholarship. The CMP does encourage marksmanship, and I believe contributes some money to teams such as this one.

I would have to agree that I don't want prices to rise on anything, I'm so tight I squeak when I walk, but you do get something for the money. As with anything else what happens when the money for the CMP- and the guns they sell-runs out?

Defense Bill passed the Senate today. The Administration says the President will sign it. Section 1087 appears to remain in the current version of the bill.

We might see these 1911s after all...

Years away or not. I am getting in line. Thanks for this hopeful - if not certain - news.

Except for the anti gun service members

And the majority who never learned how to use one...

On the CMP website:

11/06/15 An update on the 1911’s…

The National Defense Appropriations Act has been vetoed. We have no further information at this time.

Thank you,
Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer

Make that retro-active back to Jan '99, and I'll gladly take mine!

Oh, wait... never mind.
Forgot where I decided to live in my retirement.

Dang!

__________________
Been up since before breakfast

You can sell it...give it to a grandson...throw it in the ocean...let me hold it for you...bury it in a free state...present it to your best friend that you served with...melt it down and turn it into a new knee joint...etc...

__________________
A real sucker for the J-frames

This is outdated information. Disregard.

The NDAA went to vote again and has passed; the President has said he will sign; section 1087, pertaining to the CMP sale of surplus military firearms remains in the NDAA.

Looks like the waiting game begins...

BREAKING: Obama Signs Law Allowing Public Sale of Surplus U.S. Army 1911s - The Truth About Guns

Our relatives paid for these once aleady now we have to pay for them again. Keep them. They should be free.

Question:
In the 1960s NRA member could purchase from the Director of Civilian Marksmanship Springfield M1903 for $14.50, M1 Carbines for $20.00, and Model 1911 .45acp for $17.50. These arms were shipped Railway Express.
Was this the same CMP as now ?

Jimmyj, yes, same organization, different name (and prices!), run by a contractor.

__________________
Old paratrooper in NC

I fear the prices will be nuts. People will be paying through the nose to own a piece of history.

People wlll be paying what the market will bear...
Why would they charge anything less?
If you don't want a CMP 1911 try finding one anywhere else for under a grand.

I have a 1943 Ithaca 1911A1 that belonged to my general foreman, well one day we did some horse trading and swapped his 1911A1 for a Saur 38H with one magazine and holster. That 1911A1 was his service pistol when he was in tanks. Dings on the muzzle correct barrel stampings wear to the parkerizing near the front of the slide. Wouldn't take 1K or more for it. He passed away a few years back so every time I shoot it I say"this is for you Dave". He authored a little hardback book from one of the smaller publishers and was signed to me from him. So mine has a rather personal connection. Frank

No new 1911A1 pistols have been manufactured for the military since 1945.

I don't think they will be $450
I don't think they will be in mint condition
I don't think they will be in original condition
I don't think they will be matching
I don't think they be able to sell mail order
I do think there will be so much demand the 100,000 pistols will be gone before you know it.
I do think it is a good thing they are being offered for sale as opposed to being sold for scrap.

The President signed the DAB yesterday...

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...ent-provisions

As I understand it (and I could be wrong on any or all of this)...

The 1911s will have to go through FFL transfer, do direct delivery like the rifles. Not sure if C&R license will be accepted.

Most of the guns are in pretty rough shape. No idea if any refinishing will be done on them.

Will have to wait and see about pricing. I would not be interested in Paying $2,000 for a 1943 beater grade 1911. If I can get a decent shooter grade 1911 (60% finish, no pitting) for $500-$550 I would buy one. More than that and I look for another gun.

I hope they limit one per customer to keep dealers (licensed and otherwise) from scooping up 90% of them for resale.

Since the pistols have been authorized, I wonder if there's any chance in hell the importation of Garands will be authorized?

__________________
No life story has happy end.