From what I heard, it couldn't even meet Mini-14 standards of accuracy without cosmetic changes that Bill Ruger didn't consider PC.

A lot of people don't remember him or his lurch into appeasement of gun banners, refusing to sell thirty round Mini-14 magazines to mere "civilians", among other acts of collaboration.

With him gone and Ruger selling AR platform guns, the XG-1 (as I recall it being named) is a dead letter.

They did have certain quirks however.

If you squeezed the cocking lever but didn't shoot, then released it, it made a <crack> that was loud as snapping a chicken bone in half. That's what turned me off.

A gunsmith friend (built the minigun from "Predator") told me that if you shot lead bullets through it, lead fouling tended to build up in the gas port to the point where it would launch the slide off the front of the gun due to over-pressure.

Still it was an interesting gun. I recall that a while ago, a bunch of the ex-police guns from Germany came in surplus.

If you chuck it hard enough, it may hurt the perp with a 'head shot'.

No, but that is pretty funny.

__________________
I type. Therefore I am.

The original poly framed, striker fired handgun.

The HK VP-70Z

Yes, even HK has dropped an ****.

Well since no one else brought one of these up here's my vote for perhaps the most useless pistol ever offered during that period. And I believe this bulky dud was supposed to be a concealed carry gun!! How about a 4 barreled 357 Magnum("Derringer"). IMO: This thing is so bulky you'd be hard pressed to conceal it while wearing a parka!
Jim

Attached Images

	cop pistol 001.JPG (110.6 KB, 93 views)
	cop pistol 002.JPG (113.1 KB, 122 views)
	cop pistol 003.JPG (113.9 KB, 114 views)

The Firestar M43 was the "New Pistol of the Year" in Guns & Ammo 1991. I have one and its a great little gun. About the same size as all the new "wonder nines" - but a lot heavier since it is all steel. Of course that weight really tames the recoil so it's actually a pleasure to shoot. If it were DA as well as SA I'd carry it a lot more.
Too bad they couldn't keep the company afloat...

The 80s firearm abortion that comes to my mind is Colt's Double Eagle. A perfect example of someone with too many spare parts, too much spare time and no taste.

Star pistols........Actually their model B was a very nice single stack 1911 style compact pistol. Star parts were not interchangeable with std. 1911 parts.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Two guns that never made it was the Smith & Wesson Escort, which was a 22 cal small semi automatic. I had 2 and they were both junk, not reliable.
The second gun that I had that was unreliable was the Walther TPH. Would not fire reliably in double action mode. A nice looking gun, small size for easy concealability, looked like a small PPK. Inter-arms in VA was the importer and they replaced my little gun 5 times, until I said enough. Sometime in the 1980's somebody wrote a book about Walther's and he did a chapter on the TPH. After reading it, I was convinced that he never touched or held a TPh much less shot on or reviewed it. I still have the paperwork and his bull s!!! book

I've read that over 2 million Ravens were produced. I think that qualifies for "making it." Retailed for under $40, IIRC. Heavy and clunky for a .25, the ones I've met always functioned. Firing pins broke if the gun were dry-fired.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this:

Ruger made a pre-production run of something like 100 XGI's. Those chambered in 243 worked just fine. Those in 308 had a little problem with going full auto! Not select fire, full auto! As in a 20 round burst, mostly in the sky. Just a slight problem. Similar problem with the Winchester 100 in 308, but only a 5 round mag. At 100 yards the 100 would 3 round burst a 2" group from prone. Ivan

Ruger XGI. From what I read, it would crack receivers.

I really wanted to get a Medusa in 1999. It would fire any round, rimmed, semi-rimmed or rimless in 9mm short to 357 maximum.

Never saw one for sale.

I did have a Star 30. Well made gun, used S&W 9mm mags and was nothing but reliable. Suffered badly from the Spanish lineage, and value was depressed because of it. Colt was wanting to brand it and import it under their name at one time.

An interesting gun with an interesting operating principle and ammunition, but not '80s or '90s.

As I recall, the rotary aircraft gun that used the same ammunition principle had a 30,000rpm theoretical rate of fire.

I always found the grip somewhat awkward, almost a throwback to the Campo-Giro.

Ahh, yes! The pistol with the Monday-Thursday trigger pull! Always thought this was another answer to the universal unasked question.

I believe someone did make an ankle holster for it, although it would be more akin to wearing a leather covered leg iron.

Hi Standard's Crusader 44 magnum revolver. I don't remember the details but the gun rags went crazy for it based on the handling characteristics of the single prototype that made the rounds.

__________________
S&WHF 366

I'd be careful how I said that around mountain folks...they might think you are referring to the 788.

You'll start hearing banjo music and a big sweaty hairy hillbilly will walk up to you and just kinda stare at you for a minute...then say "Boy, you are lost now aint ya????"

Of course the rest aint so good after that!!!

And nobody mentioned the 696.

__________________
James L. "Jim" Rhiner

My vote for the most interesting handgun design from the 1980s and 1990s that did not make it is the Mateba Autorevolver series. I never saw one but remember them being advertised in the Shotgun News during the late 1990s for about $800. The idea came from the pre-WW I Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver. In both guns the cylinder frame slid back on rails rotating the cylinder and cocking the hammer then was pushed back forward by a recoil spring. However, Mateba updated from a top break cylinder frame to a swing out cylinder design with interchangeable barrels that aligned with the bottom chamber to reduce muzzle rise. Also, the Webley-Fosbery’s .455 cartridge looks anemic compared to the Mateba’s .357 and .44 magnum rounds. The Mateba’s designer later had more success selling revolvers that fire the bottom chamber in his more conventional Chiappa Rhino.

Quite a few revolvers that never made it either.... S&W M-650. Fairly short production run.

The M- 547 line. Despite the ingenious extraction mechanism. The word at least among my friends was always.... Why? If I want to shoot a weak nine I'd rather have 15 rds. If I carry a revolver why not a .38 Spcl or .357 magnum?

The M-520 though not really a production gun, rather a run for the NY SP that got cancelled. I remember those in shops, collecting dust for 3-4 years.

The Colt 2000/American or whatever it was called. Already mentioned. THE worst trigger I had ever experienced. Really makes me wonder WHAT the heck were they thinking? The trigger is terrible, but lets release it anyway.

My short list of short lived handguns.

Not really mainstream...But recall the Gyro-Jet concept? Those were supposed to be the wave of the future. The Dardick reminded me of the GJ's.

The Security Industries of America revolver that Massad Ayoob praised were made here in NJ. There were problems with lack of capital and quality control. Likewise Dornaus and Dixon had financial problems, IIRC they were trying to use customers deposits for financing, not a sound business practice.
The Abilene and Seville SA revolvers. The company started in Riverhead, Long Island as United States Arms manufacturing the Abilene, they got good write ups. The partners split, one moved to Arizona, set up a company called United Sporting Arms manufacturing the Seville. Mossberg bought the Abilene name, IIRC Ruger claimed patent infringement. Mossberg was going to enter the handgun market, changed their mind.

The guy who did the Dardick video in a previous video also has a few on Matebas and quite a few more obscure guns. His YouTube I.d. is lifesize potato. Well worth checking out.

https://youtu.be/ftNs2BYXsUw

Oh, I have not forgotten ol'Bill:

In his letter to members of the House and Senate on 30 March 1989, Bill
Ruger stated in that which has come to be known as "The Ruger Letter":

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete, and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining "assault rifles" and "semi-automatic rifles" is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could
prohibit their possession or sale and would effectively implement these objectives."

In addition to the furor amongst hunters, sportsmen and shooters caused by "The Ruger Letter", Mr. Ruger made additional comments during an interview with NBCs Tom Brokaw that angered 2nd Amendment proponents even further, by saying that "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and, "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…"

I was going to say, "the Star PD", but wikipedia says it was made from 1975 to 1990. I had no idea they were that popular. I haven't seen one in many years. It was a nice, low cost lightweight commander-type gun. The only bad thing was the buffer that needed to be replaced once in a while. If you left it in there too long, it would break into pieces.

Thanks for reminding me of that rifle. I keep the 10th Edition of "Modern Guns/Identification and Values" by Russell and Steve Quertermous just because it pictures that gun. They state it was produced from '86 to '88, but probably just prototypes. I was once on the phone with Ruger and brought up that model. The guy was very shocked that I'd even heard of it.

Todd

What? Page 2 and no one has mentioned the promising high cap 9mm that died because of no large supply of high cap, 15 round mags to grandfather in, when the 1994 law banning new high cap pistol magazines went into effect.

Yep, the Browning BDM . . . a pistol as slim as a 1911, a grip slimmer too than any previous double stack including the High Power . . . a law enforcement targeted dual action mode pistol.

They designed it in '91 to compete for an FBI contract. It lost. However, the final blow was a lack of any 15 round magazines for new pistols . . . just 15 round mags with their bottoms cut off and a plastic plug on the bottoms to only accept ten rounds.

I got a call from a LGS around '98. He knew I shot a two-toned Colt Combat Elite 1911 in competitions, as well as double action S&W revolvers, and thought I'd be interested in a two-toned BDM he'd just gotten a great buy on from Browning. I'd read about the smaller grip (I have smaller hands) so I told him I'd take it.

Alas, shooting pin matches at the time, what good is a 9mm! LOL. I traded it off.

Two years ago I ran into a pair of like new BDMs in a gun shop, one the ugly black finish but the other a Practical model like my first one. Both had a mag with the pistol plus boxes, etc.

The Practical one had a FIFTEEN rounder though, probably because some looker accidentally switched the mags. So, I bought it and kept it a little while.

The bugs in the pistol could have been worked out, but Browning didn't give it a good chance, and the world has moved away from 35oz. steel framed high cap 9mm pistols and will never return.

Killed by the high cap ban. Still beautiful . . . the failed Browning BDM.
Here are a couple of photos I made with the new BDM a couple or three years ago, comparing it in size/WIDTH with an officer's sized .45.


Super slim and concealable. WHAT IF it had been made on an aluminum frame with a 3 1/2" barrel?!!!

I was a kid in the 1990s and got introduced into firearms around then. The gun rags were much more fun then - every company was bringing out a gun of the week. Now it is all Glock and 1911 clones. Now I love Glocks and Colts, but the clones get old after a while. I have to say the S&W 696 and the 246 and 242 stand out as being great guns that didn't make it. I love the idea of the 242 when it came out - a light weight 7 shot .38.

A friend of mine loved the Star PD but it had the habit of cracking the frame above the slide release hole. I saw it happen on two of his pistols and one he wanted to buy.

How about the Grizzly Win-Mag? A slightly enlarged 1911 type pistol, chambered for the .45 Winchester Magnum round. You could also get other barrels/recoil springs for the pistol in .45 Auto, for example. My cousin had one of the Grizzly pistols and the .45 Winchester Magnum ammo was never seen by either of us, so the .45 ACP barrel and recoil spring was installed (in this case without any fitting needed). Very soft recoil, due to the size and all steel construction, and functioning was perfect, we never suffered any jams, failures to feed, etc.

A larger version of the Mini-14, called the XGI, was developed by Ruger in .308 Winchester and .243 Winchester. Although it was advertised in 1984–1985, it never entered production due to unresolved mechanical and production issues.

Funny stuff, but I was referencing handguns that were introduced during that time period and never caught on.

__________________
I type. Therefore I am.

What ? No love for the Detonics Pocket-9 ? Now there was some sweet compact 9mm goodness.

How about the Wildey (sp) auto or the High Standard Crusader, the large frame revolver with the gear interaction between hammer and trigger?

And one really sad loss of a great caliber from an ego-wounded, butt-hurt gun writer.

The 357 Maximum.

That killed guns from Ruger, Dan Wesson, T/C, Magnum Research, Remington, and I'm sure a few others.


Prescut

I have two of these with 15 and 10 round mags. Excellent pistol with a couple of novel features. The first was the capability to convert from DA/SA to DAO by simply rotating a screwhead on the frame (and the mags had a small lip that would do this). The second was the safety. It is a movable lever just above the grip that can be moved to fire as you draw by simply moving your thumb very slightly up (about 4 mm). However, if you were left handed, you had a problem. Dave_n.

Two absent comrades, The Kernel and Cyrano, in one post.

__________________
Sure you did

I missed this post back in 2015 because I was getting married the next week.

In 2010? or so I saw an RG revolver at a gun show, thought it was odd and picked up. Seller was a character and told me it stood for “Real Gun” and it’s not for sale but to educate because they blow up, break on their own, etc. Basically it was his public service announcement.

__________________
Rather be outdoors

Glad you could join us.

__________________
I type. Therefore I am.

Here is my addition to the thread:


Rare Failed Designs: CAC Model 45-1 Combat Model


Mossberg\Carson Arms CAC Model 45-1

What was that Daewoo disaster in the early 90’s that had a decocking hammer by pushing it fwd with your thumb? I’m sure that wasn’t too over engineered.....

__________________
Stupid games = Stupid prizes.

Don’t forget the 296. The same as the 242 but in .44 Spl w/ five rounds. Pretty slick designs in my opinion, But probably “too big” for most peoples taste. I disagree, carry a larger guns which are easy to shoot in a real holster makes sense for most occasions.

In a way, the Smith and Wesson 696 kind of lives on. The shorter barrel M 69 is essential same gun just this time chambered .44 magnum.

__________________
Stupid games = Stupid prizes.

Colt Delta Elite (10mm). First gun gift from my dad! Yep, its still packed in packing grease, plastic baggie, Styrofoam and cardboard outer box.

__________________
"You're messin' up my Zen"

Oh what sacrelige! LOOK AT THAT STUPID HIGH BORE AXIS! How can a Glock fanboy EVER shoot that!!?!!?!?!!?!!

All sarcasm intended....I am a wheel gun lover at heart, taller bore axis is part of the game.

__________________
Stupid games = Stupid prizes.

The gun industry is as bad as the golf equipment industry when it comes to flooding the market with the latest "gotta have" guns.

How many best ever new carry guns can the market support? Or 1911s? Or the newest cartridge? It never ends. Gotta keep pumping out the new products.

When's the last time you saw ads for the latest Rawlings baseball gloves?
Probably never.

Ruger XGI. IIRC they could not get an accurate barrel made up for it and didnt meet expectations.

I wanted one bad when they advertised it, thought it would be the perfect deer rifle for me. .308, carbine, semi-auto...

This is one I really regret not getting a couple of with a bunch of 15 rnd mags. Felt really good in my hands and the switchable DA-DA/SA made was fun to play with.

And was the slide release from slide lock as well.