Jonesing for an Enfield

[Stephanie B]

I can't think of a serious need, but I'd kind of like to have a .303 Enfield. I'd like one that's in decent condition, but is a "shooter".

It'd be fun to take to a three-gun match. The most recent club match needed enough rounds for a reload, which kind of knocked my Mosin out of the game. I can get a stripper clip to work maybe 10% of the time. No such thing for a Krag, so I brought my M1903 to the last match. The match timer picked the wrong place to stand; I bounced the first casing right off his forehead.

Here's where I feel old: At least half of the participants didn't recognize a M1903 on sight. They thought it was a Mauser.

But anyway, I want a SMLE.

[Arik]

They are cool rifles. I have 3. The original Martini Enfield single shot falling block, 1918 SMLE and a Jungle carbine. You can find sipper clips for them but I have just as much trouble with those as I do with Mosin clips. I think it's me though.

[Double-O-Dave]

I think they are really cool rifles. I have absolutely no need for one, but there's been one advertised locally for pretty cheap (it has been sporterized - unfortunately) that has been languishing for several weeks now. If I'm not careful, I will submit to it's siren's call and who knows, I may become a .303 Enfield owner.

Best of luck,

Dave

[Ivan the Butcher]

I too have a 303 Martini, but from the Citadel (Egypt) along with a No.4 & a No.5.The 5 round Enfield strippers are interchangeable regardless of the war. I have hundreds.PM me if you need a few.

One of the problems with shooting a SMLE or latter, is the chamber is made a little long for mud and dust to have someplace to go in a combat environment like WW I. When fired the shoulder moves forward and full length sizing is required to get it back to specs. Then it should be trimmed (not a necessity with the long chamber), on the next firing the case grows more. All this brass is coming from just in front of the case web, and it gets thinner after each time it is shot. On the 8 rifles my sons and I have used the head separates from the case body at around 6 to 8 firings, then you have a case stuck in the chamber. This was such a common occurrence with wartime ammo that case extractors were an issue item for ground troops. It hasn't been a safety issue during practice, but in a timed sport or combat it is more than a nuisance! The only sure way to beat this problem is don't shoot reloads in competition. That is starting to get expensive as surplus ammo dries up!

I have found ammo on Browning belts with a almost Greek headstamp, it isn't Greek, it is Farsi! It was made by the Iraqi military arsenals in the 70's and 80's and is good ammo (shot to the sights on all my WW II rifles) Us machine gun belts are in 200 round lengths, these were in 333 round belts (like Maxim designed his guns for). I have never seen the correct ammo can, but believe it to be similar to our 30 cal cans but 50% longer, I have seen photos of WWI Russian cans for 7.62x54R Maxim machine guns and assume the 303 cans would be similar.

Ivan

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

That is starting to get expensive as surplus ammo dries up!

I know, I'm late to the party. At least, not so much with Mosins; I bought into them about eight years ago, so I have a good stock of ammo and such.

[Donn]

Picked an Enfield up a month or so ago. Rifle made in 1942, bayonet & scabbard, in-stock cleaning kit. Cabela's in Dundee Mich had one in the used gun room last Saturday. Couldn't find the date, but it was older than mine. It was in decent shape, marked $250. If I didn't already have one, I'd have bought it.

[Arik]

The SMLE have notch sights, like Mauser and Mosins. The No4 have rear peep sights. Figure I'd let you know in case you have a preference

[ACP230]

I don't have one but have come close to buying a British Enfield a few
times.

My preference was always for the No. 4 or the No. 5 carbine. The peep
sights are what convinced me. I am old enough so sights on the barrel
are less useful than they used to be.

I think AIM Surplus had some .303 ammo recently. You might find
other suppliers in Shotgun News.

A writer claimed that a good guy with a Brit Enfield might give a Garand user a run for his money in getting 10 rounds off in a hurry.

[M1A]

There are helpful videos on YouTube re: loading stripper clips. Two ways, both work, although I prefer rim on top of rim over the one up one down.
I used fine steel wool and a bit of oil and smoothed out all my Enfield stripper clips and en bloc clips. Made all the difference.
Privi Partisan has great ammo, .303 included. Good brass to reload as well.

[planojack]

SMLE's are fun toys. Ugly, but fun. If you acquire a #5, look out for the recoil. Suggest you reload a milder round or, if necessary, pull the bullets on factory and carefully reduce the powder by 10 or 15 %. After my first experience with full factory loads and the #5, I had to rush to the dentist. The recoil had kicked all the fillings from my teeth.

[Donn]

Originally Posted by planojack

SMLE's are fun toys. Ugly, but fun. If you acquire a #5, look out for the recoil. Suggest you reload a milder round or, if necessary, pull the bullets on factory and carefully reduce the powder by 10 or 15 %. After my first experience with full factory loads and the #5, I had to rush to the dentist. The recoil had kicked all the fillings from my teeth.

Interesting. I found mine to be quite well mannered.

[Granite6]

Do you really need a "reason" to want one? I hope not or else I'm in trouble.
I'm late to the game of collecting WW2 military rifles, but a SMLE will round out the main European theatre rifles I desire.

Good tid-bit on the 4 and 5. I really need to do some research on the SMLE so I know pros and cons and hunt down a good shooter.

[DocB]

Good news on wanting a WWII model. . .the bayonet is cheap. It's what they call a tent spike. You can complete the rifle historically for next to nothing which is not the case with the old WWI or Indian Arsenal examples.

[Cyrano]

I have two: a MLE Mk I* and a SMLE Mk III*. I fitted a Parker-Hale peep sight to it. My father was in the 27th Infantry Division, New York National Guard in WW I and carried a SMLE Mk III*.

Case life is short for the Lee Enfield design; I keep track of how many times my brass has been reloaded and usually toss it after 5 or 6 reloads. Still a lot cheaper than factory or even surplus ammo and a lot more accurate.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

I too have a 303 Martini, but from the Citadel (Egypt) along with a No.4 & a No.5.The 5 round Enfield strippers are interchangeable regardless of the war. I have hundreds.PM me if you need a few.

One of the problems with shooting a SMLE or latter, is the chamber is made a little long for mud and dust to have someplace to go in a combat environment like WW I. When fired the shoulder moves forward and full length sizing is required to get it back to specs. Then it should be trimmed (not a necessity with the long chamber), on the next firing the case grows more. All this brass is coming from just in front of the case web, and it gets thinner after each time it is shot. On the 8 rifles my sons and I have used the head separates from the case body at around 6 to 8 firings, then you have a case stuck in the chamber. This was such a common occurrence with wartime ammo that case extractors were an issue item for ground troops. It hasn't been a safety issue during practice, but in a timed sport or combat it is more than a nuisance! The only sure way to beat this problem is don't shoot reloads in competition. That is starting to get expensive as surplus ammo dries up!

Ivan

The way to extend case life works like this. The first time you shoot a round, you put a small O-ring down by the rim so the case head is firmly pressed against the bolt when the action is closed. That way the shoulder moves forward and the case is now fire formed FOR THAT PARTICULAR GUN. Future reloading is done with neck sizing only and you don't need the O-ring as the shoulder is setting the case head against the bolt.

[serger]

Does it have to be a 303? I picked up an Indian Ishapore 2A1 in 308 and it does everything a regular smelly does and it does it with 12 rounds vice 10.

Just sayin....

[Vulcan Bob]

Originally Posted by serger

Does it have to be a 303? I picked up an Indian Ishapore 2A1 in 308 and it does everything a regular smelly does and it does it with 12 rounds vice 10.

Just sayin....

I'll second that! The Ishy Mk 2A was built to be a 7.62 NATO rather than being a conversion, great rifle's. Get two, a Smelly in .303 and an Ishy in 7.62 and you are set.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by M1A

There are helpful videos on YouTube re: loading stripper clips. Two ways, both work, although I prefer rim on top of rim over the one up one down.
I used fine steel wool and a bit of oil and smoothed out all my Enfield stripper clips and en bloc clips. Made all the difference.
Privi Partisan has great ammo, .303 included. Good brass to reload as well.

Thanks for the tip about steel wool and oil. When trying to use them it was like dragging against rocks. I was only able to get 2 or 3 rounds into the gun an the rest would just tip down but not move

[JohnRippert]

My first C&R purchase was a Enfield No5 and the first centerfire rifle I fired was a No4. Find you a nice No4 MKII and have fun.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by planojack

SMLE's are fun toys. Ugly, but fun. If you acquire a #5, look out for the recoil. Suggest you reload a milder round or, if necessary, pull the bullets on factory and carefully reduce the powder by 10 or 15 %. After my first experience with full factory loads and the #5, I had to rush to the dentist. The recoil had kicked all the fillings from my teeth.

They arnt any worse than Mosin carbines, which the OP seems to have experience with. I don't think they are so bad. I typically put around 50 rounds through my Mosin carbines. If 303 was as cheap I'd do the same with my No5

[2152hq]

I've had SMLE's and MLE/MLMs for years.
Reloading for any of them is no different than any other bolt rifle, even if they have some excessive headspace.

The first firing fireforms the case, then just neck size after that. No need to F/L size for each loading unless you like to do that for some reason.
...Or you are loading for several different rifles and don't segregate the rounds.

Stripped clips I have good luck with. I use the ones that my stash of Greek HXP 303 came on. They work fine. I'm not picky about how I stack them and they seem to load OK. Others seem to have problems with their clips and rifles. There are a few different changes done to the clips themselves over the years of production. Some people say the polish the inside of the rails of the clips,ect. I guess if they didn't work, I just wouldn't use 'em. It's not that big of a deal to me.

I'm down to one nice original Mk1* SMLE Commercial BSA,,This is the sliding charger head circa 1904 rifle,,not the version of the #4 rifle of WW2.
Also a Charger Loading Lee Enfield (CLLE),,another BSA commercially marked rifle. Sometimes called a Territorial Rifle.
Has the 1907 and forward solid charger bridge of the SMLE on an earlier Magazine,Lee Enfield Rifle. Metford style safety (half cock striker safe only)
A very accurate rifle. Both this and the above have the volley sites & cut-off.

Three decent Lee-Speed sporters along with a couple restoration project Mk1* SMLEs like the first one above about do it now.

One L/E I regret having to sell was a Lee Metford, original condition w/early straight line feed 8rd magazine.
But sometimes you just need the $$ for other things.
There were lots of others. Never was in to the #4 rifles for what ever reason, though I did have a #4 sniper outfit.
The #1 rifles were still fairly cheap in the 90's yet.I can still remember buying them from AIM and others for under $50.
Not anymore,,they have really gone up in price and dried up at the shows.
Even the Ishapor marked rifles are feeling love now, when a few years ago they went overlooked as the bottom of the barrel so to speak of the SMLEs. Some of the pre-Independance built rifles are very nice quality.
Their decision to use that heavy reinforcement wood screw through the side of the forend of new mfg'r and any FTR rifles didn't make for many 'Ishy' fans though.

[drgbike]

I have 8 smles, 4 in 303 and 1 308, 2 45-70, 1 444 marlin. Love them easy to improve and still cheap compared to german stuff.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by serger

Does it have to be a 303? I picked up an Indian Ishapore 2A1 in 308 and it does everything a regular smelly does and it does it with 12 rounds vice 10.

Just sayin....

The Ishapore 7.62 rifles are great to shoot, so long as you get one where the draws are in good shape. If the draws are damaged (often invisible until the gun is dismantled) then accuracy will be poor. You may guess how I know.

Headspace is fine, but the chambers on both mine are "generous" in diameter towards the case head. Probably a good candidate for shooting steel cased Russian ammo.

[deadin]

Here's one I picked up quite reasonably a couple of years ago..
(Can you say "assembled"??) I think the mount is an original Brit but the scope isn't. I suppose I could refinish the wood to get it all the same color, but it's hardly worth the effort......

(I ashamed to say that I haven't got around to shooting it yet, so I can't comment on accuracy.)

[Trooperdan]

Cheaper Than Dirt has good, Greek, reloadable .303 ammo right now for about .20 per round. Many have been buying it even though it is listed as "Grade B" and getting good ammo. I bought 900 rounds in strippers (now gone) and less than 20 had any serious corrosion. It was the strippers that had a bit of rust. Some of it is berdan primed cordite but the 480 rd case is usually Greek HXP. Get it while you can!
Surplus .303 British Full Metal Jacket, 174 Grains, 2440 FPS, 480 Round Bulk Case, Grade B

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by serger

Does it have to be a 303? I picked up an Indian Ishapore 2A1 in 308 and it does everything a regular smelly does and it does it with 12 rounds vice 10.

No, it doesn't. The possibility of finding one in 7.62 NATO is why I haven't jumped on ordering a bunch of .303 cartridges.

[olskool]

[IMG][/IMG] here is one for you, my jungle carbine sniper.

[Richard Simmons]

I'll have to dig mine out. Ones a Lithgow No1 MKIII* from 1921. The other is a 1957 P.O.F No4 MK 2. I've only seen a couple P.O.F. models. They seem to be somewhat few and far between, at least in my part of the country.

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by Arik

They are cool rifles. I have 3. The original Martini Enfield single shot falling block, 1918 SMLE and a Jungle carbine. You can find sipper clips for them but I have just as much trouble with those as I do with Mosin clips. I think it's me though.

*** use a second magazine

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by LVSteve

The Ishapore 7.62 rifles are great to shoot, so long as you get one where the draws are in good shape. If the draws are damaged (often invisible until the gun is dismantled) then accuracy will be poor. You may guess how I know.

Headspace is fine, but the chambers on both mine are "generous" in diameter towards the case head. Probably a good candidate for shooting steel cased Russian ammo.

WHAT ARE DRAWS ???

[olskool]

draws are the bedding area for the reciever, in time the dry out and the wood will shrink, i had to add some wood to my carbine. i cut thin strips of walnut and glued them in place and sanded until i got the correct fit. it makes all the difference in accuracy. .

[Arik]

Originally Posted by jimmyj

*** use a second magazine

The mags were ment more for ease of cleaning then reloading. Like a lot of other ww2 era rifles. The mags usually don't just plug and play, often they have to be fitted

[loknload]

I have several Enfields, my first real deer rifle was an Enfield! but after seeing this thread I have to ask....What exactly does Jonesing mean? First time I ever heard that term used!

[olskool]

being a redneck in the south i had never heard that term either until a couple of years ago, a friend of mine from NY told me what it meant. it means wanting something real bad.

[sigp220.45]

The only cure for the SMLE jones is to get one.

I chopped this one up as a teenager when they were 29 bucks:



I'll leave this jungle carbine as is - no way to improve it, anyway.

[jimwilkes]

I had one about 25 years ago, kicked like a mule. Promptly traded it for a '94 in 32 Winchester.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by Richard Simmons

I'll have to dig mine out. Ones a Lithgow No1 MKIII* from 1921. The other is a 1957 P.O.F No4 MK 2. I've only seen a couple P.O.F. models. They seem to be somewhat few and far between, at least in my part of the country.

Mine is dated 1963. Somebody estimated there are about 1000 of them in the US. Most have been through Indian hands, probably captured during one of the many border skirmishes between the India and Pakistan. Later they were surplussed to the US along with many other Enfield No.1 and No.4 rifles.

Rumour control says the CIA bought a lot of them from Pakistan to give to the Muj after the Russians invaded in 1980. That former Spetnaz guy Vorbiev who writes in Shotgun News commented that many of the interdicted mule trains had Pakistani Enfields on them.

It's a cert that some of those same weapons have been in the hands on the Taliban in more recent times.

[loknload]

olskool,,,being a redneck in the south i had never heard that term either until a couple of years ago, a friend of mine from NY told me what it meant. it means wanting something real bad.
Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Likes

Olskool, thank you very much for the explanation!

[HPaugh]

I don't know for sure but my friend bought like 55-60 of these types of rifles. he is an FFL so if you would like to contact him PM me and I will get you his business number.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by loknload

I have several Enfields, my first real deer rifle was an Enfield! but after seeing this thread I have to ask....What exactly does Jonesing mean? First time I ever heard that term used!

It means lusting after. Really really really really want one

[Arik]

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

The only cure for the SMLE jones is to get one.

I chopped this one up as a teenager when they were 29 bucks:



I'll leave this jungle carbine as is - no way to improve it, anyway.

Ahhhh...you killed it!! Your gun buying should be suspended!

No way to improve? Well for starters they could have made some left handed

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by olskool

draws are the bedding area for the reciever, in time the dry out and the wood will shrink, i had to add some wood to my carbine. i cut thin strips of walnut and glued them in place and sanded until i got the correct fit. it makes all the difference in accuracy. .

Fiberglass bedding would work well, too.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Arik

Ahhhh...you killed it!! Your gun buying should be suspended!

No way to improve? Well for starters they could have made some left handed

They could also take off that recoil increaser at the muzzle and that recoil concentrator at the butt.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Fiberglass bedding would work well, too.

So does JB Weld according to the guys at The Box of Truth website.

[Faulkner]

I bought this Lee Enfield No4 MKII about 25 years ago, unfired and in the wrap. Took me several days to clean all the cosmoline out of it. This is one of the 'Irish finds" that was discovered unused in storage in the late '80's. Seems I paid $89.99 for it then.

[Frank46]

I have a couple of the enfields. Fazakerly 1949 MKI/2 and a Indian built #1MKIII in 7.62x51 nato. Lotta fun to shoot. My latest aquisition is a 1942 or 43 Longbranch which bubba chopped the wood and cut the barrel to 25" That one will get rebored to 375" and become the 37 rimmed. The 37 rimmedis nothing more than the standard 303 case necked up to take 375 diameter bullets. In my case 375 diameter cast bullets. I'll stick a set of iron sights or maybe a scope to see how well it shoots. Frank

[alwslate]

I've got a pretty decent 1941 Lithgow with an excellent bore that I
would part with if anyone was interested.

[Richard Simmons]

Originally Posted by Faulkner

I bought this Lee Enfield No4 MKII about 25 years ago, unfired and in the wrap. Took me several days to clean all the cosmoline out of it. This is one of the 'Irish finds" that was discovered unused in storage in the late '80's. Seems I paid $89.99 for it then.

I had the same rifle only a previous owner had already cleaned it up. Beautiful stock and it shot great. At the time I paid $300 for it and sole it some years later for the same amount. I've run across a few since then that were still in the mummy wrap but passed on them. Wish now that I hadn't. Glad to see you still have yours.

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by Faulkner

I bought this Lee Enfield No4 MKII about 25 years ago, unfired and in the wrap. Took me several days to clean all the cosmoline out of it. This is one of the 'Irish finds" that was discovered unused in storage in the late '80's. Seems I paid $89.99 for it then.

One like it went on GB the other day for $850 or so.

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by HPaugh

I don't know for sure but my friend bought like 55-60 of these types of rifles. he is an FFL so if you would like to contact him PM me and I will get you his business number.

Ooops. Too late. This morning, I scratched the itch, so to speak.

Will post pics after it arrives.