Guys,

Need some help please......Sig stainless barrel, can't get this fouling out of the barrel. Tried two different cleaners to no avail. Does this look like powder/carbon fouling to you guys?

Only 300 rounds through this 1911, factory/ FMJ ball ammo only, no reloads. Winchester white box, Federal, and American Eagle.
Everything else comes clean very easily.

TIA!!

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MSP - Retired

Looks like copper fouling to me.
It seems pretty thick, you are gonna have to spray heavily
and let it sit, repeat, repeat,......
Ballistol works pretty good, Gunzilla also.

Some Sig barrels are really tight [undersized] and some FMJ is
the opposite [oversized].

I had a Kimber that looked like that, frustrating.
I quit shooting FMJ in it [and almost every other gun]
and began lubing all my barrels with SBGO, let dry,
wipe with pad.
It solved the fouling in my .223/5.56 also, which I have
a lot of FMJ for.
You can even soak the fouling with SBGO also, brush it,
dry with patch, and shoot it out with jacketed.
Silver Bullet Gun Oil

Try powder blaster (it's an aerosol). That stuff is pretty strong. If that doesn't work then you'll have to let it soak in something that isn't an aerosol. I like Weapon Shield Solvent.

Okay...thanks guys. They sell the aerosol powder blaster locally, so I'll try that first. If it doesn't work....I'll have to order something different.

I just let it soak and tried brushing it again and its still there. I definitely want to get rid of it.

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MSP - Retired

If it's copper fouling, you'll need a copper solvent. I use Hoppes Copper Solvent. Let it sit overnight as instructed. If it's not copper fouling, there are two things I would do next. In order:

1. Pour Ballistol into a mason jar. Drop in the barrel and other fouled parts. Screw on a lid and let it sit a day. After the day is over, run a brush and patches down the bore. Should be good to go.

2. If it's truly stubborn carbon fouling, get another mason jar. Fill it with SeaFoam (the stuff you use in engines). Drop the metal parts into the Seafoam and let it sit for a day. After the day is over, run a brush and patches down the bore.

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-John

Guys, I took the pic from the muzzle end because that's where its built up like you see. There is very little of this on the breech end of the barrel. It starts getting built up around halfway through this 4" barrel to the point where you can see it in the pic.

I clean the pistol after every range trip. Yesterday I shot only 70 rnds. Prior to that the barrel never had this amount of buildup, and has always come clean except for some streaking in the grooves.

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MSP - Retired

Wow! Looks clean to me.

I like the Bore Tech Eliminator Solvent. See reviews at Brownells. http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleanin..._1=BORE%20TECH

Over time, I've had extremely good luck with Montana X-Treme copper solvent. You've gotten some great advice, so far!

Bores run into more trouble from over-enthusiastic cleaning than from not being utterly, perfectly clean.

Unless accuracy is faltering, basic cleaning to remove what's easily removed, then leaving be, is fine.

Another technique involves taking some threads/strands from a Big 45 Metal Cleaner (looks like a pots scrubber) and wrap in a spiral fashion onto your bore brush (like putting light strands on a Christmas tree).

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Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well

What do you guys think of those metal silver-colored, spiral styled bore brushes....okay to use on SS barrels?

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MSP - Retired

Wow - everyone is picky. That barrel is clean enough for me as is.

I mean, it is not like it is an Olympic free pistol and the gold medal is on the line.

All of the solutions suggested seem an exercise in frustration since you will feel like you have to soak overnight everytime you go to the range. Personally, I like to clean, and leave it ready for immediate use.

Run a couple of patches through it, and call it a day.

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John 3:16 .

I'll admit, I have OCD when it comes to cleaning guns. My girlfriend says I'll probably treat my guns better than whatever children we have.

If all else fails, a stainless bore brush will take care of that in a few minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like to spend more than 30 minutes cleaning any pistol. I've never had to soak parts before.

However, this buildup you see in the pic is significant. Its not just a thin film or smear.....its caked. It appears black so not sure if its copper or not.

I just soaked and brushed the barrel with some old Hoppe's #9 I had on hand. The barrel is shinier but the buildup is still there. Tomorrow I'll grab some other cleaner and a SS brush.

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MSP - Retired

If it actually is copper, the quickest way to find out (and remove it) is to use Sweet's copper fouling remover. Run a patch soaked with Sweets into the barrel. If all that stuff is copper, the patch will be blue when it emerges out the other side. No blue patch...no copper fouling. Simple as that.
If it is copper, Sweets will get rid of it fast (I was going to say "toot sweet" but that would be a bad pun).
Frankly it looks like the grooves are filled with powder residue. If you shot 300 rounds without cleaning, that is not surprising. You should clean after 150 rounds max. Some Hoppe's#9, a bronze brush, and some elbow grease will get it out.

So far I've not shot more than 100 rounds per outing. Cleaned it each time.

For some things it sucks to be in a small town area, such as not having much of a selection of "specialty" items.....just basic gun stuff at the stores around here.

Most things I want other than the gun have to come by mail order.

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MSP - Retired

Lewis Lead Remover works quite well removing lead. Never tried it on fouling, but seems worth a try. It certainly won't hurt anything.
Your problem is unlikely to be lead unless you have been shooting unjacketed lead ammo.

Curious how some of the grooves seem filled with the stuff and others not. Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
Do you oil the barrel after cleaning it, then remove the excess oil with a dry patch?

In a situation like yours ( most likely copper fouling as posted by OZO), before I brush and patch the bore, I stuff it with dry, clean patches, then soak the thing with Hoppes (dribble it down the bore to soak the patches thoroughly), and let sit over night. Voila ! Proceed with your bore brush etc. and it'll clean up.

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John

No, I don't oil the barrel. Once it's clean with solvent (have always used Hoppe's #9), I run a dry patch through a couple of times....been doing it this way for 30 years and never saw a buildup like this.

ADDED:

This is my first pistol with a SS barrel.

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MSP - Retired

Four words: Outer's Foaming Bore Cleaner.

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Release the Kraken

I would not use a stainless steel brush unless everything else fails.

I usually really wet the bore down with Hoppes #9 and leave it for 30 minutes or so, then another wet patch, then brush with a soaked bronze brush as usual. Sometimes takes a dozen passes. I've had to leave some soaking overnight. Not unusual with the pathetic ammo choices I've had.

My Sgt would never have passed that barrel for inspection, nor my dad for that matter.

If does not pass my inspection by any stretch.

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MSP - Retired

I agree with some of the other guys. For me that,barrel was clean an hour ago. I run a few patches and a few brush strokes and I'm done. Modern ammo is none corrosive so it really doesn't matter. My carry gun had its barrel cleaned maybe 2000 rounds ago

No offense intended to the guys who see this barrel as clean, but do you see the crusty buildup a couple inches long in each groove?

I'm not worried about this gunk, but I don't like it. If there was one part of the pistol I wouldn't "need" to be clean, it would be the bore. The moving parts/assemblies/mechanisms are what's most important to me.

I appreciate all your input and help so far....thank you.

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MSP - Retired

Foaming Bore Cleaner is what I was thinking, when the others started mentioning soaking.

Plenty of good advice above.
Once you get the stuff out, inspect the valleys and check for rough spots. It may be giving the fouling a place to start catching and building up.
See if its rougher under the fouling compared to where there is no fouling now.
If so, you could try fire lapping a few rounds and see if that doesn't reduce your fouling troubles.
One other thing you can do is fire into a medium where you can recover the bullet un damaged and check the rifling marks on it.
You may find them to be very shallow which could point to an oversized barrel where you're not getting much contact into the valleys.
How's your accuracy been with it?

Here's a trick I use for stubborn bores, take a used/worn brass bore brush and wrap a layer or two of 0000 steel wool around it. Works great for me and gets a little more life out of those old bore brushes.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Accuracy has been excellent. What would you recommend for firing a bullet into where it would come out intact?

Here's a pic of a grouping I shot from 3, 5, 7 and 10 yds......20 rnds in total.

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MSP - Retired

I use solid copper Chore Boy pot scrubbers. You can get them on AMZN if your grocery store doesn't have them. Some are only copper coated so be careful. Make sure they're solid copper. Snip off a bit and wrap around your bronze brush. Sparkly clean.

I recommend after cleaning run an oily parch thru the barrel, then follow up with a dry patch to remove excess oil. This is a commonly done thing which will protect the barrel against corrosion over time and (I believe) could reduce the bonding of crud to the bore.
Ask around about this.

Mix Hoppes #9 half and half with Hoppes Black Powder Cleaner. let it sit a couple of hours then a tight patch. Most of the shooters at the local club use this.

Ballistic gel or if you can't get that, at least 6 gallon jugs of water lined up.
The tip will expand,especially in the gel, but the base will be fine. You'll find it laying in the bottom if the last jug it penetrated.
It doesn't look like you have much if an oversized bore with those groups! So, you can probably rule that out.
Using some of the tips here and more rounds through the barrel should smooth any rough spots in time, I would think.
I mentioned fire lapping earlier. Some swear by it, although I haven't had the need to try it yet. If you do, do it sparingly because it is microscopically polishing (removing) metal from the bore.
Most I know if who have done it have been with rifles.

Awesome...... I'm sure I can gather 6 milk jugs in short order.

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MSP - Retired

I've thought you need some significant speed to get copper fouling and it only applicable to rifles. Is it possible with 45 ACP cruising at less than 900 fps ?

I do the same. I use Weapon Shield Solvent on the barrel (in the bore and outside the barrel. Then I use regular Weapon Shield to lightly coat the inside and outside of the barrel. Finally I wipe it down and leave only a thin layer on/in the barrel. My barrels always look brand new when I am done cleaning my gun.

One way to check to see if it is totally clean, or in my case perfect, is when you are done cleaning it, hold it up towards a light source and look inside the bore. Mine look brand new and slightly shine.

So...when you've spent several hundred dollars on a Tactical Gun course lasting all day and going thru 300-500 rounds or more, you should stop and waste time cleaning you gun instead of learning what you paid for? I assure you the course will be moving right along without you. The instructor(s) won't be wasting the other student's time waiting on you.

Every 150 rounds is ridiculous anyway.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

Bob, Were those rounds shot offhand or using some kind of support?

This was shot with a two-handed grip while standing. No support, barricade or rest of any kind.

I'm going to head to the LGS shortly for some bore cleaner and see if I can get that **** out of there.....it just bugs me.

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MSP - Retired

Okay, here is a pic of the barrel before today's cleaning. Below that is a pic of the cleaner I got at the LGS. They had Hoppe's Copper Cleaner in a small bottle, but I opted for this foam.

I used a new bronze brush, a SS tornado type brush, and a brass jag. I let it soak for the recommended time and cleaaned it. When the crust was still there, I repeated the procedure. The first time I got the blue color, so obviously there was some copper in there. But the second time I got no blue.

I tried the regular Hoppe's #9, and then swabbed with patches, and got some black residue out and continued that until it came clean. From the last pic, it appears that the caked build-up is not as heavy. I feel confident in saying that some of it has been removed.

However, at this point I don't think that what remains is copper. It appears to be a carbon/powder build-up....I don't know for sure. It appears pretty black colored.

Sorry for the lighting, but I had to use a flashlight instead sunlight, and it was more difficult to get a good pic.

At this point, I'm going to leave it as-is and shoot it this weekend. I'll clean it after that and see if it comes out. I'm going to order some Sweet's 7.62 and see if that gets the rest of it out of there.

Actually, I might pick up some Seafoam at the automotive store tomorrow and try soaking in that.

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MSP - Retired

I have a P220 which I broke in with 400 rounds of Hard Ball; the barrel did not look like that and showed no sign of copper.

I am a curious guy, if my barrel had anything like that especially starting back from the muzzle, I would take a dental pick and dislodge a bit of that material to take a closer look. It certainly looks more like carbon fouling to me, but carbon fouling would have gone long ago.

I use Sweets 7.62 on my rifles and it works in short order. The normal way to apply it is with a wet patch wrapped around a bronze brush. Somehow though; I find that not looking much like copper to me.

Even shooting a lot of FMJ as I do in 9mm, I seldom get any blue traces using bore cleaner in pistols.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Try JB bore cleaning paste. It will get out the copper and carbon fouling.

The original USGI RIFLE BORE CLEANER do not breathe fumes.

Bob, The first photo clearly shows copper. The last one, not so much. Looks like you got the copper. That being the case, I doubt that Sweets would be much help. But it is a really great copper remover. Since it contains ammonia, it is unsuitable for some specially treated bores (like the one on my S&W M&P rifle) and should be removed after 10 minutes or so. No soaking overnight. The bottle has instructions on it. Good luck.
BTW, great looking target!

That almost looks like the caked on black sludge you find in engines. I'm thinking there was some stubborn oil or grease in there when you shot the gun and the heat has baked it on there. I know you cleaned the gun before shooting it, but some of those preservative greases and oils hang on like bubble gum on shag pile.

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Release the Kraken

Thanks guys.... I'll try the Seafoam in a couple of days.

I read some other information about Simple Green......any of you guys ever use that? I have some of it on hand.

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MSP - Retired

It looks like carbon buildup, not copper. I'd start with Hoppes #9 using a Brownell's Double Tuff bore brush. I'd stay away from steel wool, stainless brushes and any other type of harsh method for now. After the Double Tuffs get what they can out, then I'd try Sweet's 7.62 Bore Cleaner and follow the directions to the letter, especially not leaving it in the bore for longer than 15 minutes. In fact, don't let it dry in the bore. If it's carbon fouling, it will not resist coming out.
Keith