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Old 10-31-2015, 01:00 PM
AureasLibertas AureasLibertas is offline
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Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist?  
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Default Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist?

Hey Everyone.

In some countries over the World (especially a countries of Central Europe where I come from), normal, non-guilty peoples can't buy any firearms. Why? Because, gun laws in these countries are piece of ****. But, there is a little gap - black powder firearms are fully legal and everyone can buy it. In places where normal guns are prohibited, that is an only way to equip with tool for self- and home-defense, some kinds of sports or just for fun (by the way, this situation shows how dumb is gun control - many people have arms like this and no one use it to massacres or another aberration. Eh, never mind).
I don't want here to discuss about reliability and efficacy of cap and ball firearms in use for self-defense or about politics, because question of this thread is other...

Once upon a time I wonder... Why Firearms manufacturers don't produce a modern designed cap and ball revolvers? What I mean in term "modern designed"? I mean line of actually produced revolvers (j-frames, k-frames, etc.), but in cap and ball configuration.

It can be a "jackpot profitable" when arms like this can go into markets in countries mentioned above. I think, more people would like to buy then firearms - J-frames for self-defense, etc.
In comparison to revolvers for cartridges, its can look this same, but its should has some features like easy disassemble cylinders for loading and reloading (in hot situation you can easy change a cylinders?!), etc. Its' can be certainly a better stuff than replicas from 1850 - lighter, smaller, more reliable...

Okay, that's only my dreams and cogitation, but go back to beginning of this thread - have you ever hear about modern looking/designed cap and ball revolver?

Last edited by AureasLibertas; 10-31-2015 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:06 PM
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Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist?  
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While I've never seen a "modern" revolver in cap-and-ball configuration, I believe a competent machinist/gunsmith might be able to convert a recent production gun, such as one from Uberti, to double action.

At the advent of cartridge firing revolvers, existing stocks of cap-and-ball revolvers were converted to cartridge firing guns by the manufacturers.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:28 PM
Big Cholla Big Cholla is offline
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Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist?  
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Thank You! You just gave me a project that I have all the equipment, supplies and skills to take on. I think that I can take a shooter grade 'K' frame and turn a cylinder into a dedicated cap and ball cylinder. The cap would be a normal production cap. It would be recessed into the cylinder to the normal depth for centerfire primers. It would probably need a slot for a hooked tool to pull a fired cap off the nipple. A nippled insert would be threaded into the end of the chamber on a permanent basis. With modern blackpowder the resultant in a 357 mag cylinder should easily be the equivalent of a 38 Special. Wow! I have a new winter project. .....

And, with a couple of such dedicated cylinders on hand, reloads wouldn't be too much of a hassle. And, the handgun could be placed back into centerfire status by just reinstalling the original cylinder. And, the blackpowder cylinder could be fabricated in a machine shop by the use of CNC equipment relatively inexpensively. The mind reels with the possibilities............
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:33 PM
AureasLibertas AureasLibertas is offline
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Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
While I've never seen a "modern" revolver in cap-and-ball configuration, I believe a competent machinist/gunsmith might be able to convert a recent production gun, such as one from Uberti, to double action.

At the advent of cartridge firing revolvers, existing stocks of cap-and-ball revolvers were converted to cartridge firing guns by the manufacturers.
Probably, you're right, that some gunsmiths can convert a standard gun-use-cartridge into a cap and ball, but that's not a point, because... it's still a "normal firearm", but converted.
Normal firearm = prohibited *
Convert = illegal *

* Of course, in almost whole Europe.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:47 PM
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About the only revolver with "modern" features that comes to mind is the Ruger Old Army, a large single action that was made in carbon and stainless steel. There are older double action black powder revolvers, some of which are still being made in replica form (I think the LeMat is one of these), but this may not be available for purchase where you live.
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:24 PM
Squarebutt Squarebutt is offline
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Many modern revolvers have been converted to black powder in the UK due to recent laws banning modern firearms Muzzle Loading Revolver Conversions In The UK - The Firearm Blog
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:28 PM
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I don't see a way to load the cylinder on the conversions. You must have to remove the cylinder, and load it in a separate press. Funny that they call them muzzle loaders, I doubt they push the charges down the barrel to load the cylinder.

The Ruger Old Army, is about the best most modern black powder revolver ever made, IMHO.

The hot setup, would be a full size cap and ball revolver, with an avenging angel cut down revolver, for concealed carry. With multiple cylinders that could be used in both revolvers. Use the full size as the loading press for the cut down one.

I doubt in places that only allow you to own black powder revolvers would let you carry one for protection.
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:52 PM
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Get a single action for now. Use your left thumb to cock it and cycle the action,
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Old 11-01-2015, 09:32 AM
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At one time Freedom Arms had a black powder C&B .22 revolver. And there is this very similar .22 C&B from NAA: North American Arms Companion Cap and Ball Black Powder Revolver #11 Percussion Cap Equivalent to .22 LR Caliber Wood Grips Stainless Steel Finish

I don't know of any others aside from the Ruger which could be considered modern, but there is an abundance of replica Colt and Remington C&B revolvers. As a carry gun, I think a replica Colt Model 1849 (.31) C&B would be excellent, albeit a little lacking in power. I have an original one of those, but do not shoot it much. A conversion of a more modern DA revolver to C&B is certainly possible, but I have no idea how it could be easily loaded after the first five or six shots have been fired. And there were some early British-designed C&B revolvers in double action.

I remember some postings here regarding some of the more draconian European gun laws (don't remember the country) which indicated that in at least some countries, a replica C&B revolver is considered as modern, and in order to be above the law, all black powder handguns had to be manufactured prior to 1890 or maybe 1888 - I don't remember.

Last edited by DWalt; 11-01-2015 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:06 AM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
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Ruger Old Army and North American Arms both make what I'd consider a modern, cap and ball revolver.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:29 AM
surfgun surfgun is offline
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To play devil's advocate, if one stuffs too many 'modern' features into a cap and ball revolver, one may be risking bringing these items to the attention of politicians! And we all know what that brings, a drive to make them illegal.

I know, I know, where is the dislike button. But I am afraid what I just stated is sadly a truth.

Last edited by surfgun; 11-01-2015 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:50 PM
surfgun surfgun is offline
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I would like a top break (with removable cylinder), with three cylinders for rapid recharging. A kind of Webley.

Last edited by surfgun; 11-01-2015 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 06:01 PM
AureasLibertas AureasLibertas is offline
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Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist? Modern designed Cap and Ball revolver exist?  
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Gentelmans, easy - hold your horses

At first - thanks for your responses! I don't expect so great interesting in this thread.

Some explains:

* I don't want to buy one of these and I'm not looking for! I'm just only WONDERING about exist and sense of exist of these firearms and yours point-of-view/opinion.
Remember also - many of you are from USA (IMHO, one of last bastions of truly Freedom). In Europe peoples must to manage with many absurd forbiddings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by model70hunter View Post
Get a single action for now. Use your left thumb to cock it and cycle the action,
Yup, I already have some C&B revolvers so, I know how to use it But that's no a point of this thread. Single action in shapes like S&W Model 360PD - HELL YEAH !

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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
[...]I remember some postings here regarding some of the more draconian European gun laws (don't remember the country) which indicated that in at least some countries, a replica C&B revolver is considered as modern, and in order to be above the law, all black powder handguns had to be manufactured prior to 1890 or maybe 1888 - I don't remember.
That's important notice. Indeed, in some countries of Central Europe gun laws allow people to buy cap and ball firearms, but only ORIGINALS or REPLICAS of these manufactured to, for example, 1890. And... Substantially, this sentence eliminate a possibility to own any "modern" or homemade/converted/"I dunno" types of cap and ball firearms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eveled View Post
I doubt in places that only allow you to own black powder revolvers would let you carry one for protection.
You can buy a C&B revolver and you can carry it loaded with you. About laws regarding self defense... That's the other side of the coin. In Europe not exist something like in USA "stand your ground" laws. I don't want to write here long postulates about how it looks like.. Only one word - I believe that every man on this World should protect himself or his family against evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
To play devil's advocate, if one stuffs too many 'modern' features into a cap and ball revolver, one may be risking bringing these items to the attention of politicians! And we all know what that brings, a drive to make them illegal.

I know, I know, where is the dislike button. But I am afraid what I just stated is sadly a truth.
Yeah... are we really slaves, that we can't talk about firearms and any other things that we want? Because, bunch of a**holes gonna ban us arms of our forefathers? What next? - cars, bicycles, nerf guns and oxygen that we're breathing... Damn. Probably your right, but... That's a socialist/liberal peak of absurdity.


Okay, back to point of topic.

As you see, many "modern" cap and ball firearms cull from historical firearms (for ex. Ruger Old Army from Remington C&B revolver) etc., but that's not what I thinking for...
I especially dream about cap and ball J-frame revolver (I don't see any of this before). You would can easily remove a cylinder from axis for loading or for exchange on a new (loaded) one. Light, reliable, easy to clean and carry.
Any manufacturers don't make them, but I think in some parts of world they would gain a pretty penny for it. Especially in regions where normal firearms are prohibited.

Or, maybe I'm wrong and whole this idea is bad?
If is - why?
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Old 11-01-2015, 07:56 PM
shotgun693 shotgun693 is offline
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It might be better to push for more 'right' minded politicians and get those laws changed.
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Old 11-01-2015, 08:58 PM
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I'll echo that the ruger old army is probably the closest thing to a modernized black powder revolver.

The problem with converting a smokeless powder revolver to fire black powder is the corrosion and crud resulting from black powder. Modern revolvers simply are not made to accommodate the amount of crud that even one cylinder of black powder makes. It will lock up a smokeless revolver relatively quickly, I would imagine, particularly a double action gun that has a lot of tightly fitted internals to eventually disrupt.

The modern example given above is really neat, it's a gun available in the UK that is an armscor revolver fitted with a special cylinder and internals that uses a modern smokeless powder and shotgun primers to load.
This gets around he crud and corrosion problem, and would be the way to go...you could probably convert a good many different revolvers this way.

Last edited by Safestuffer; 11-01-2015 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 09:21 PM
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+1 for the Ruger. Superb cap-and-ball. Waaay better than any 19th Century CE original or modern replica. I find I can shoot them all day without them binding up from residue.
Huge, yes, but I don't see why one cannot be cut down, barrel and grip frame.
Someone mentioned the LeMat. I have one and have considered that it could make a good home defence gun, especially with that central barrel that can hold a much larger bullet. As I understand it (and I'm not sure I do), it cannot be loaded with shot in the US because that makes it a short-barreled shotgun. Too bad.

I find mine does bind up during the second cylinder-full if not first blasted somewhat clean. But, I suppose that if I haven't stopped the threat after 11 rounds, I need to run. Fast.

Since I do have modern firearms available to me, I would NOT make any cap-and-ball a primary defence gun.

Interesting to think about it, though.
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Old 11-01-2015, 09:48 PM
GatorFarmer GatorFarmer is offline
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Those distinctly mediocre Armscor guns are sold as cartridge .38 specials in the United States for circa 200$. I had one. I would much rather have a BP Pietta 1858 Remington clone.

The 1858s sold these days are actually 1863 models. There is a 5.5" bbl model. Cabelas sells them on sale for a bit over $200.

Mine would jam up after maybe three cylinders, but you could carry all six chambers loaded with the hammer down on a safety notch. I did in fact carry mine with a .45 Colt cylinder loaded with 5 rounds at times.

There also exists for the European market BP only 1873.

The 5.5" 1858 in .44 or the ahistorical 6 shot .36 caliber "1862" revolvers will work as carry guns. If they need to be snubbed, well you get out a hacksaw and a file.

My 1858 Pietta stood up to very stout loads. I put in some BP, put a Pyrodex pellet on top of that, then some more BP then hammer in a bullet with a mallet. I watched what these did to target boards and the sorts of craters they left in dirt. Were I to use one for a social gun, I think that is how I would load it up. I had to use Remington number 10 caps for best results.

Cylinder changes....eh...if you need to reload a BP gun you need a spare gun. Unless you are under cover and have a lot of practice.
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