I have an old Remington Model 81 in 30 Remington that I haven't fired in years. It's in very good condition, but the wood was refinished years ago before I got it. The refinish is not an oil finish. The metal is in very good condition.

I'm thinking of selling it to finance another purchase. Do any of you have any idea of what it would be worth?

LT

Check closed auctions on gunbroker. Being in 30 rem with no ammo avail. could lower final price. Also list it here in our classifieds with pics.

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S&W Accumulator

Mike's right about the ammo. But at least .30 Remington was discontinued recent enough where someone might still find ammo in the right gun shops. That will definitely be a factor, though, with a potential buyer. I just looked at an original finish Model 81 showing use and it was priced at $500. My Model 81 is .300 savage.

In this crazy market you just don't know. Without seeing it I would opine that your 81 is south of $500, but who knows? A collector seeking to round out his 81 stable with that hard to find .30 Remington might bite hard. They are pretty common in .300 Savage and .35 Rem, neither of which is a big deal to find ammunition. .30 Remington is a different deal. The head size is unique to Remington so forming it from something else is out of the question, unless you wanted to down grade even rarer .32 Rem. The .30 Remington AR has the same head size, but is too short. Dedicated loonies are making the stuff out of .30-30 Win. by turning off the rims and cutting an extractor groove, one at a time, on a lathe. Long term, this may be the only source. Old Western Scrounger still sells loaded .30 Rem. I haven't bought any, so I have no idea where they get the brass to make it.

81's are beautiful guns. I treasure mine. They are quirky but reliable Browning designs made the old fashioned way out of forged and machined parts, the first successful sporting semi-auto (counting its predecessor the Model 8).

Those old Model 8s and 81s are such cool old guns! I have a 1914 mfg Model 8 in .35 Rem that was handed down to me thru the years. For one like yours, realistically I'd guess $350-450 for a quick sale mostly due to ammo availability.

I agree on refinished 81 in 30Rem will be south of $500. Same
gun in 35R or 300s will bring $700. I like the old Rem 8-81 and
14-141. I have several and have owned many. I recently bought
a well used 14 in 30R. Main reason was to get ammo that went
with it. 2 boxes of the ammo were Rems, in the Green & Yellow
box, I would say 70's or 80's production. I load it, so I am in petty good shape. In the woods it's easy to loose brass out of
the autos. 32s are a little harder to come by, but not as hard
as the 25Rem. One bonus that may be encountered on these
rifles are after market tang sights, they can be worth $100+.
Something to take into consideration when buying or selling.

.30 Rem brass is not that hard to find, and it can be reloaded using .30-30 dies. Occasionally, .30 Rem ammo is found at gun shows. If you have access to a lathe, it's simple to make .30 Rem brass from .30-30 brass, just reduce the rim diameter and cut a new extraction groove. The first firing will fire-form the brass to fill the .30 Rem chamber. Not knowing the condition of your 81, I might say anywhere in the $300-$500 range. Now, there were higher grade Model 81s made with premium wood and engraving, and the price can go way up on those. Go to The Great Model 8 & 81 That's the forum where you can find ANYTHING about these rifles.

Love my 81 in .35 Rem. It was a great price as it was gifted to me by a neighbor who's father had passed away and no one in her family wanted "that old rifle". I always helped her out with little tasks so she refused any payment for it. My wife refers to me as the "neighborhood husband" due to the many times I'm out doing stuff for the neighbors. But in this case it paid off!

There's a lot of history surrounding the 8s and 81s, and not many today are familiar with it. FN made them in Belgium before Remington did. The Army evaluated them for potential military use. Pancho Villa's bodyguards carried them. TR carried one to Africa. The FBI used them for many years. And many law enforcement agencies and prisons did also.

You can buy new ammo for it from Old Western Scrounger

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A Snider squibbed n the Jungle

Firing the M8/M81 in .35 Rem and the M81 in .300 Savage will loosen the fillings in your teeth. The recoil from the .25/.30/.32 Rem is much more tolerable. Several years back, my brother, not a small guy, fired my .300 Savage M81 once with a full load, and decided he didn't really want to fire a second shot. I usually underload the .300 Savage to about the .30 Rem level. And .300 Savage cases are very easily formed from .308 Win brass, just a pass though a .300 FL die, followed by trimming to length. You can easily form .25 and .32 Rem cases from .30 Rem brass.

I have a soft spot for the Model 8 and 81. I have several and the 'odd' calibers don't deter me from purchasing them. But for the off the shelf ammo buyer, it can be a problem unless it's a 300Sav or a 35Rem. even the latter is starting to be a ghost item in most areas.
Remington was making an annual run of 30Rem brass which can be used to make 32 and 25 rem easily. I don't know if they're still doing that. I have enough of that and some other factory once fired 60's ammo to keep me satisfied.

Sometimes people will switch out bbl and recv;r units, so it pays to look for the matching ser#s and bolt caliber ID. Recoil springs can differ betw calibers, a few are the same like 30 and 32. Others not. Breech bolt face differs from the 25/30/32 to the 35 to the 300.

$500 +/- is a decent price range for a shooter Model 81 depending on caliber and originality.
Add things like Police Markings, or a Lyman or Marbles tang & bbl sights, Kreiger or other detachable mag, factory 'graded rifles and the price goes up quickly.

This is my only 81 right now, but I'd like to pick up one in .300 Savage:

For those interested in making .30 Rem brass from .30-30 cases, here is a writeup I did some 5 years ago on my experience: thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com

I have made up about 50 such cases, but I don't do it any longer, as I have accumulated over 200 original factory cases in the interim. Reed's in Oklahoma City usually stocks .30 Rem, but they show it back-ordered at present. Ditto Buffalo Arms.

This Model 8 in .30 Rem is from 1915:


Note the three charger clips. They are quite rare and valuable, if you ever run across one.

Koz- that thing looks awesome! Yours is nice as well DWalt.

Some time ago, a quantity of Remington "White Box" .30 Rem ammunition with FMJ bullets came on the market from somewhere, probably a larger LE agency. It all dated from the early 1960s. I bought two boxes of it a couple of years ago for $30/box, but haven't fired any. I once saw an ad for a full case of the FBI .30 Rem ammunition for sale, in commercial-style 20 round boxes. I had read the FBI used a lighter special load, not the normal sporting load. There must be a story there, but I don't know what it is. The FBI guns were somewhat special themselves, and came with a fitted hard carrying case. Very few of those found their way onto the market. I also heard once about the U. S. Navy using the Model 8 in some limited role, don't know any more than that, but there is a picture of some Navy guys firing a Model 8.

Frank Hamer used a Remington Model 8 during the ambush of Bonnie and Clyde.

Actually, he probably didn't. Best evidence was that he used a shotgun on that occasion. The gun often stated to have been used by Hamer was an engraved Model 81, which hadn't yet been made at the time of the B&C ambush. But apparently there was at least one and maybe two Model 8s there. I won't get into who used what, as there are numerous conflicting theories on that, and no one knows who is correct. But there were no Thompson SMGs there, just one BAR.

Had an 81 in .300 Savage, that had an upgraded, checkered stock. Never got around to shooting it, as it seemed rather awkward although classic looking. I believe that 30/06 charger clips for the Springfield can be used for .300 and .35, but not for the others.

I found four very clean late boxes of .30 Rem at a gun show, and snapped them up for a Stevens 425 I have. The Stevens is marked .30/30 Remington, and unlike the 8 and 81, requires round nose bullets, due to the tubular magazine.

My 81 is one of my all time favorite guns. A .300 made in 1949.

Most hunters didn't need or use the stripper clips (properly called chargers), but maybe the law enforcement guys did. There were a variety of clip designs made for these rifles at different times, but all the original Remington-marked clips are scarce and bring fairly high prices. Those for the .35 and .300 are different from those for the other three calibers. One of the problems in using GI clips is that you need lugs on the sides of the clips to keep them from going into the well too far. Those can be added by brazing. If you know the trick, the rifles can be reloaded fairly rapidly without a clip, in just a few seconds. There were several types of aftermarket box magazines made for these, allowing a greater magazine capacity than the standard 4 or 5 rounds. But the existing fixed magazines needed to be modified for their use. If you can find one, they are quite pricey. It's one of those designs where you wonder why Remington didn't fit them with removable box magazines to begin with, such as the later Remington 740, 742, and 7400 semiautomatic rifles.

Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm surprised that there was this much interest in these old rifles. I have some more information that I got at a gun show this weekend.

I did not take the rifle to the show to sell. I probably should have. I saw two other Model 81's at the show, both in 300 Savage. Both were in pretty good condition and had the original finish. One had a side mounted scope on it along with the factory open sights. They were asking $950 for it! The other had only the original sights and this guy wanted $850 for it. These are asking prices and I didn't discuss price with either dealer.

My rifle has what appears to be a Lyman Model 21 side-mounted peep sight on it. Apparently these are in some demand. There is a vendor that has a booth at these shows ( Dulles Expo Center), who specializes in old rifle sights. I discussed the sight on my rifle with him, and I would do much better to sell my old sight separately and buy a standard replacement sight for my rifle. I will probably do this.

Again, thanks for all the input. It has been very helpful. I now know much more about this rifle than I did before. I'm going to look at the site suggested by D Walt. Maybe I can learn more.

LT

The Lyman 21 sight, if original, is quite desirable. I have not seen one on a Model 8 or 81, but no reason why it wouldn't work. Many of the old Winchester Model 1895 rifles were fitted with the Lyman 21. Early FBI Model 81 rifles used a somewhat similar Lyman peep sight, the Model 41. The peep sight most often seen on the 8/81 is a much smaller Marble R6 peep sight which attaches with a single screw at the rear of the receiver. One of those in good condition is also quite desirable. Prices approach $200-$250 today, just for that sight. I once bought a Model 81 with a Marble R6 sight, mainly to get that sight.

I would NOT sell the Lyman 21, even though you could probably make some money on it. The mounting holes on your rifle will substantially de-value it without the corresponding sight being in place. A sure value killer on any Model 8/81 is having lots of threaded sight screw holes in the receiver, especially scope mount holes.

Two years ago i found a reblued/refinished wood Model 81 in .300 Savage with a one screw tang sight on it like you mention. The gun was blued over some rust spots. It looked like the price was scribbled "$50". I asked what the the first digit was since it was missing. Store owner said, 'No, the rifle is $50". So I bought it, sold the sight to a forum member for around a hundred, then sold the rifle for $300. I didn't shoot the gun but everything seemed to function. Why it was priced so low is beyond me. If I didn't already own a .300 Model 81, I'd have kept it, of course.

Wyatt Burp: I like that cartridge belt almost as much as I like the rifle.

Years ago I asked about here wondering where that style of military cartridge belt was used and I don't think anyone gave a definitive answer. what do you think? It's actually packed with old military .30-06 ammo.

There were several different types of cartridge pouch belts used from before WWI through WWII. And often there were differences between cavalry and infantry belts. Many had ink maker's stamps on them. The M1910 is most common, but yours does not look like a M1910.

You know that the new .30 Rem is the basis for Remington's new cartridge used in their AR platform rifle. Perhaps cases could be formed from them. I'd check that out.

I still believe Hamer used a Remington No. 8 in 35 Remington.

Believe if you wish, but he didn't. See: The Great Model 8 & 81 * Frank Hamer

There is a group of B&C ambush re-enactors in northern LA who have followed all sorts of leads about who used what guns. And they have concluded Hamer indeed used a shotgun, and that's how they stage their re-enactments. It is entirely possible that Hamer had a Model 8 in .30 Rem, which was actually used by one of the other participants in the ambush, but not by Hamer himself. See below:

Following is taken from another forum, which I mentioned earlier. Just another viewpoint, veracity undetermined:
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"Allow me to weigh in on the ambush guns.

I belong to a group called Public Enemies of 1934, which is an historical/theatrical group that stages reenactments of 1930s "incidents" involving the likes of Dillinger, Floyd and Bonnie and Clyde.

For the past few years, I have had the privilege and honor to portray Frank Hamer at the annual Bonnie and Clyde Festival in Gibsland, Louisiana, which concludes with a reenactment of the "capture" at the actual ambush site south of town. That is where my avatar picture was taken.

While the organizers of the festival want a show that sort of combines fact, legend and the movies as far as what weapons are presented, we have done considerable research into what was actually used on May 23, 1934.

While the members of the posse surely possessed a variety of firearms, I believe they actually used the following:

Frank Hamer - Remington Model 11 riot gun

Manny Gault - Remington Model 11 riot gun

Bob Alcorn - Remington Model 8

Ted Hinton - BAR

Henderson Jordan - Remington Model 11 with long barrel and

Prentiss Oakley - Remington Model 8

My conclusions are based on the following:

Dallas County Deputies Bob Alcorn and Ted Hinton were featured in a newsreel filmed the day after the ambush, reprising their roles. In that film, Hinton used a military BAR (not a Monitor) and Alcorn used a Remington Model 8, a standard one with a straight gripped stock. Since it was filmed the following day, it is logical that they used the same long arms they had used the previous morning.

Bienville Parish Deputy Prentiss Oakley had borrowed two guns from the town Dentist in Arcadia, Dr. Sheehy, for him and Bienville Parish Sheriff Henderson Jordan to use. Both were guns he had borrowed before to go hunting. One was a .35 caliber Remington Model 8, serial number 48990, a deluxe model with a semi-pistol grip stock. The other gun was either a shotgun or a lever-action Winchester, but we believe it was a shotgun, as we will see below.

There are numerous photos of the long guns recovered from the car after the ambush, those being BARs and sawed-off shotguns, with said weapons leaning against the back of the car, but there is one photo that shows five long arms on the roof of the bandits' car, and they do not match the descriptions of the weapons the Bonnie and Clyde were carrying.

The five guns on the roof are a BAR, a Remington Model 8 (the stock is not visible in the angle of the photo) and three semi-automatic shotguns which appear to be Remington Model 11s. Two of them have riot-length barrels and one is a long-barreled hunting type shotgun.

When considered together, the conclusion is the guns on the roof are Hinton's BAR, either Alcorn's or Oakley's Remington Model 8, and three shotguns used by the remainder of the posse. Since both Hamer and his partner were lawmen, it is logical that the two riot-length shotguns were theirs, leaving a long-barreled hunting Model 11 for Sheriff Jordan, presumably the second gun borrowed from Dr. Sheehy.

As far as Alcorn's BAR and any others, I believe the posse was only planning to stay out until 0900 and were in the process of picking up when the bandits appeared at 0915, and those guns had already been put away. "

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In addition, there was also a statement made to the news media by Louisiana Sheriff Henderson Jordan after the ambush, commenting to the effect that Hamer used "an automatic shotgun" in the ambush, which is considered authoritative.

A few years ago, there was a two-part TV show on The History Channel re-telling the saga of Bonnie and Clyde (BTW, it sucked). The production staff consulted with the real history experts on the ambush regarding the guns used - and then they promptly ignored everything they were told. No big surprise. The original "Bonnie and Clyde" movie with Warren Beatty and Fay Dunaway from, I think, the late 1960s or thereabouts, did no better in portraying the correct guns.