I'm having a discussion with a fan fiction writer who armed US Navy sailors in a story with M-1803 rifles.

I thought those were made mainly for the Lewis and Clark expedition. Were they also general US issue in the War of 1812?

An odd selection of a rifle for arming fictional sailors. I have never seen anything suggesting that the Navy used Model 1803s, but the Army did during the War of 1812, and some went out west with the Army in the years before the Civil War. Some were converted to percussion. Does the author have any substantiation of Navy use during the period of the story's setting? The alleged Lewis & Clark association with the M1803 is controversial.

While it is certainly possible that M1803 rifles went on the L&C Exp., and the L&C Museum in St. Louis has one on display as having been used on the trip, I have personally never seen proof that they did.

And production records say that the first rifles came of the line 6 months after L&C left for St. Louis.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

I read a little on this today, and agree with the fic author that L&C left before the 1803 rifles were made. They probably had 1794 rifles, modified to their specs, fitted with slings, shortened, and made .54 caliber.

I suspect the 1803 was modeled after those modified Lewis & Clark rifles.

Personally, I doubt naval use, but the guy tells a good story, so I won't gore him about that.

And, yes, I know that L&C also had powerful air rifles.

No. I think he just chose a rifle used by the US then. He is a former US Army Ranger officer and knew that the Army used them in the 1812 war.

At least, he could cite some rifle of that day. His story is basically intended as a romance for female readers, and most such authors would have just described the sailors' "guns", not realizing that those would be cannons.

His other info is probably okay, although I know little of sailing ships and their armament, sails, etc. The fictional captain's flagship is a 44-gun frigate.

I read a Hornblower book or two years ago, but that hardly makes me an expert, and Hornblower was a Briton. I think the Royal Navy then had the Sea Service pattern of the Brown Bess musket. I may ask him to mention those. But I'm probably the only reader who'd care. Most are too focused on whether the heroine can seduce the captain. And she has long term goals of replacing his wife, who left him to raise their young daughter alone.

BTW, did Royal Marines then have the Land Service or the Sea Service version of the Brown Bess?
What was the difference?

Simple question, tough answer. From 1778-1854 the Sea Service pattern would have been used by Marines while serving aboard HM ships. (I guess they were assigned to individual ships and the Marines came and went) From 1797 on, when HM Marines rotated ashore for service, they were just as likely to be issued India-Pattern Muskets.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

Some years back, I was contacted by a female British author regarding proper British sporting guns to mention as being used in her period romance novels (mid-18th century). I sent her a list of some British and continental guns of that period. I have no idea if she used what I sent, but at least she asked instead of just making up stuff.

Question: was it the M 1803 the the Marines used in the Carbine length as rigging guns in the war of 1812. The American Rifleman had an article about them in the early 80's, but I don't remember the particulars. I was sharing a table with a friend at an OGCA show and he pulls out a carbine that had been cut from a rifle (a long time before). He had been trying to sell it for a number of years with no takers, After the AR article he tripled the price and sold it that show!

Ivan

Here is a site with a little information on early USMC weapons. Weapons of the Marine Corps: from Muskets to Missiles | Liberty References

There was only 3" difference in barrel length between the Type 1 (33") and the Type 2 (36"). There were some other minor changes. I have never been able to nail down production numbers by type, only that @20,000 total were produced.

Personally, I would be hard pressed to say that none went to sea, as I'm sure Murphy is waiting to prove me wrong.

Price wise, an undocumented example in good condition could easily go north of $20,000.00.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner