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Old 01-20-2016, 07:21 PM
eyegots2no eyegots2no is offline
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Default Scope mount for AK? Need advice

Friend of mine has asked me about a scope mount and scope for his AK.

He is a young fella new to guns but wants to have fun and be prepared. He believes I tend to know things about guns but, I am just not up on the AK. I asked him if he considered an AR as those I like---but, I do not blame anyone for having an AK----I am just not into them.

I would like to relay some experience to him and hopefully some of you here have been there and done that.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:16 PM
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For the most part a scope on an AK is generally only useful if your eyes can't handle iron sights. You are not going to get any sincere accuracy with any AK, I don't care what anyone says. The only truly good thing about the AK is for the ranges it was designed to operate in they deliver a terrific knockdown, that would be out to around 150 yards. The terminal ballistics are similar to a 30-30.
At one time I've had just about every variant of AK and only have one left. If you want the most out of an AK you should look for a milled receiver and chrome lined barrel. Another problem to overcome is the usual miserable trigger, that can be worked out or replaced. The best scope mount for the money is the Ultimak, it takes the place of the gas tube and allows for central mount of a scout scope or Eotech.
The scope mounts that fixed to the side of the receiver work OK, I prefer a cleaner more lineal approach like the Ultimak. There is also a method of mounting a scope with an adapted receiver cover, those are junk and will not keep a zero. The Ultimak retains its zero just like any well mounted mil-spec mount.
There were some people that reported that the heat from the gas tube and barrel would mess with the optics mounted directly above them, that may be true if sustained full auto fire were being employed. In my "real world" situation, I tried to get both an Eotech and Acog to become a problem by firing a series of magazines with a total of 120 rounds within a couple of minutes, neither scope had a problem. The Acog also works fine with the Ultimak but is a little more scope than is really necessary on an AK platform, it is designed for bullet compensation for 5.56 and is wasted money on an AK, put it on an AR, like my wife's.
The new Russian rifles that are allowed into country work just fine, I think you can get them in .308 which would be much nicer than 7.62 x 39, at least from an accuracy potential factor. Most of the people still using the AK platform militarily went to the smaller caliber models.
Arsenal makes a top of the line AK, they are not kits but factory manufactured and very nice weapons. If you are looking for a kit again look for a milled receiver, Bulgarian AKs were some of the best, Yugo rifles were also very well made and had stocks that fit better. If you know what your doing you can turn a Romanian G-code or Home Guard rifle into a good weapon, they were made from rather crude castings. I was never crazy about anything Century turned out, although the early stuff was fairly reliable.
If you can try to find the picture on U-tube that shows an AK firing full auto. There used to be a shot of a sheet metal receiver firing and it was like watching Jello wiggle, that thing is going off and wiggling and wobbling in every angle. Then watch the milled receiver model fire, not very much wiggling going on.
There were a few imports from Norinco back in the 80's that came out after the ban, they had full length stocks with thumbholes in the buttstock, really ugly. Some of them came with milled receivers and chrome lined barrels, they were called "Match Rifle" and had Chinese symbols stamped on them which when translated said "Very Accurate Rifle". I have one of those and it is the most accurate AK I ever fired. I modified it with a Dragonov type stock with adjustable cheek rest and rubber butt pad, the Ultimak scope mount and Eotech, I can hit anything I can see out to 150 yards, it has surprised quite a few people, especially AR guys that don't think an AK can shoot. Norinco also made a few rifles they called "Legends", they were also built on a milled receiver and had decent wood furniture and bayonet lugs, they were always top of the line when it came to what you had to pay for one.
I still think the AK is fun to shoot, ammo used to be dirt cheap and we thought nothing of shooting up a thousand rounds on a Saturday. I know a guy that legally shot a deer with an AK, which again is another advantage over the standard 5.56 AR. All you need in this state is a maximum 5 round magazine. Some of the Russian ammo is hollow-point which makes it legal, hardball ammo is not legal.
My son and his buddies loved shooting all my ammo up, when I put a stop to the free ammo Saturdays and told them they could shoot all they wanted as long as they provided the ammo they quit shooting, sound familiar?

Last edited by Kinman; 01-20-2016 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:27 PM
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I have a scope mount on one of my AKs that mounts to the rear sight. It takes the place of the rear sight as its front mount and uses a picatinny rail that goes over the top of the dust cover. It is very solid and has its own rear sight built in if you don't use a scope or red dot. I will need to check it to see who makes it.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:51 PM
SC_Mike SC_Mike is offline
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IMHO get the receiver side mount. You may want to ask him if his already has the rail on the left side of the receiver. If so there are several manufacturers out there. He can also get the rail and have it mounted if he wishes. I would avoid the dust cover mounts for obvious reasons.
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:51 PM
eyegots2no eyegots2no is offline
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GREAT information guys---I appreciate it.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:18 PM
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If I needed to use a scope, I'd want something other than an AK to mount it on.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:24 PM
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Before you get into any of that above does the rifle have a side mount attached to the receiver? There are a few options but I'd need to know what he has

As far as distance the 7.62x39 is tops a 500 yards but more realistically 300 - 400 yards. It's is by no means 150 yards as some will claim.

Using surplus ammo
FPS. Ft-lbs
Muzzle 2350/1508
100 yards2040/1136
200 yards 1755/841
300 yards1502/616
400 yards 1289/454
500 yards1129/348

At 500 yards it still has as much energy as a 9mm 124gr Gold Dot. The problem becomes the drop. It drops double what a 556 77gr does at 500 yards. At that distance the 7.62x39 drops 96 inches. Yea thats a big drop but if properly sighted in using the correct rear sight reading it takes a fraction of a second to sight in a 500 yard target by moving the rear sight up (elevation).

400 yards target using a none magnified red dot. The rifle is stamped. Milled vs stamped has no difference in practical accuracy.








I hate always having to defend the AK but there is so much BS out there. You will get plenty of sincere accuracy past 100 yards. Just don't expect to do it with garbage ammo.

Lapua at 100 yards.


At 200 yards standing





And at 400 yards posted above.


A lot of these "facts" come from people that don't know how to sight it in, or just repeat what others say. I once heard someone say the Soviets designed the AK to use any caliber without modification. ....I'd love to see someone try that! This is about the same as those "facts" about the M1 carbine not being able to penetrate heavy clothes dispite have as much energy at 100 yards as a 357 at 25.

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Old 01-21-2016, 11:20 PM
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I have to agree with Arik on many of his points, I also tend do have the desire to defend the AK mainly because it has such a terrific track history. It is the ideal battle rifle for the common man, there is nothing fancy about one and repairs are usually very simple and accomplished with common tools.
In the right hands just about any weapon can be deadly, practice is of the utmost importance.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:53 PM
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My new Russian Ihzmash Saiga Sporter in 308win with a 16" barrel will shoot 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds no scope. Using SA surplus ball ammo.

The Russians did focus on making the Saiga sporting line more accurate than its ak brothers. They did have success. They also admitted the American calibers of 308win and 223 rem are a tad more accurate than the Russian calibers.

Go to, kalinka for scope rails and scopemounts for the ak, akm.

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Old 01-22-2016, 03:09 PM
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AK Master Mount I can't say enough about this product and their customer service. It is an excellent side mount for an AK if yours does not have one.Zero holes to drill, Zero modifications and save your parts to return the rifle to stock if the need arises.

As for the scope mount I use the Arsenal SM-13 attached to the AK Master Mount.

As for optics I just returned both of my Eotechs to L3 for a full refund due to Thermal Drift. Currently shopping for a short/medium range red dot. I have only used Eotech so I have no knowledge or experience with the others out there.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:31 PM
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I like shooting my N Pap AK more than I do my AR. Look on Youtube for AK Operators Union 47-74. This guy is an AK fanatic and full of good info. He'll also back up ARIK's long range accuracy claims.
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:49 PM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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As far as I'm concerned, replacing the rear sight is a terrible mistake. The Ultimak replaces the gas tube and is attached to the barrel. My Ultimak allows co-witness with my Aimpoint Micro. What this means is that if my Micro ever quits on me (not likely, as this is a military grade optic which runs a VERY long time on a single battery) I can still see the iron sights through the optic. You can't do that with any other scope mounting setup. I tried magnified glass on the AK and it didn't do anything for me that a red dot could accomplish. And I have found that the only real advantage the red dot has over the iron sights is making the hits in low light. Whatever you do, don't get rid of the ability to use the iron sights.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sinko View Post
As far as I'm concerned, replacing the rear sight is a terrible mistake. The Ultimak replaces the gas tube and is attached to the barrel. My Ultimak allows co-witness with my Aimpoint Micro. What this means is that if my Micro ever quits on me (not likely, as this is a military grade optic which runs a VERY long time on a single battery) I can still see the iron sights through the optic. You can't do that with any other scope mounting setup. I tried magnified glass on the AK and it didn't do anything for me that a red dot could accomplish. And I have found that the only real advantage the red dot has over the iron sights is making the hits in low light. Whatever you do, don't get rid of the ability to use the iron sights.
As well as EOTech L3........My refund is in the mail. I agree don't lose the iron sights!
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:41 PM
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The scope mount that mounts in place of the rear sight folds back over the dust cover. It has its own rear sight that puts the rear sight all the way to the rear. This increases the sight radius. It's like going from a 13" radius to a 21" radius! And the new rear sight is windage adjustable!
Don't quote me on the numbers but you get the point!
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