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  #51  
Old 01-23-2016, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WATCHDOG View Post
Some folks aren't happy unless they're unhappy about something.

I'm very happy that these guns are going to be offered to US citiziens. I think it's a rip-off to charge a starting price of $1000 (who knows what the tops ends will go for?) when they got the guns for nothing. The CMP is a BUSINESS. The line about promoting marksmanship went away a LONG time ago as they raise their prices for EVERYTHING every year. I was happy to pay $675 for my first Garand. $730 for my second. Reasonable price. $1200 or more for a service grade 1911? Out of line.

And please don't tell me ALL of the money from sales goes back into the shooting sports to encourage marksmanship. It's a human run company. Somebody in upper management is doing QUITE well.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
At $1000, I'll pass - and I imagine most everyone else will also, unless they are Singers or unfired NIBs.
The Singers will be gone in 2 seconds.
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  #53  
Old 01-23-2016, 06:43 PM
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I will make nothing but positive comments about the CMP.

To those who do, would you rather have these iconic arms destroyed or made available to qualified citizens?

This program has been many years in the making. Since the CMP can sell only 10,000 per year, they will sell and most of them will appreciate.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:54 PM
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Heaven forbid the CMP pay their employees a wage

Anyone here working for free?
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Old 01-23-2016, 07:47 PM
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Heaven forbid the CMP pay their employees a wage

Anyone here working for free?
Course not. How does charging over a grand for a GI 1911 make the employee's wallet get fatter? Are they all going to get a raise thanks to the 1911's?
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Old 01-23-2016, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by usm1rifle View Post
I will make nothing but positive comments about the CMP.

To those who do, would you rather have these iconic arms destroyed or made available to qualified citizens?

This program has been many years in the making. Since the CMP can sell only 10,000 per year, they will sell and most of them will appreciate.
Every item they sell goes up every year. Like clockwork. I'm glad they are there to furnish me with a rifle, but they don't have to gouge the customers (and I don't believe they do, YET, with the Garands).

But at last check, the CMP is saying there are about 18 months left until the Garand supply dries up, unless they get more that they are not counting on right now. So just what is the reason for increasing the price of those rifles, when they sure aren't giving their employees a comparable raise?

oh, that's right. They're "promoting marksmanship".
  #57  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:00 PM
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Course not. How does charging over a grand for a GI 1911 make the employee's wallet get fatter? Are they all going to get a raise thanks to the 1911's?

It's none of my business what the CMP charges for any of their items, I either fork over the money, or not, but I don't bellyache about the prices. Buy, or don't buy, as noted by numerous posters, pretty darn simple isn't it?
I have no access to any of the CMP financials including their payroll records, do you?
Did you ever run a business, other than working for the gov't?
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  #58  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
It's none of my business what the CMP charges for any of their items, I either fork over the money, or not, but I don't bellyache about the prices. Buy, or don't buy, as noted by numerous posters, pretty darn simple isn't it?
I have no access to any of the CMP financials including their payroll records, do you?
Did you ever run a business other than working for the gov't?
No. Have you? is working for the FDNY a business now?
  #59  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:05 PM
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No. Have you? is working for the FDNY a business now?
I didn't think you did.
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:07 PM
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Every item they sell goes up every year. Like clockwork.
And of course labor, shipping, electricity, supplies, etc and other items never go up.
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  #61  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:20 PM
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And of course labor, shipping, electricity, supplies, etc and other items never go up.
They charge the customer shipping so it's a wash.

Labor? Are the cmp armorers and warehouse workers gonna get a piece of every 1911?

Electricity? Is the bill for the lights and AC in the warehouse gonna go up when the 1911's arrive?

Look, buy 4 of these if you want to. I don't care. Just don't tell me it's a good deal. A good deal at a gunshop where you can see the gun and inspect it? Course it is. Luck of the draw from an organization that got them for NOTHING? Not so much.

I'd like to have one. And I can certainly afford it. But giving 1200 bucks or more for a gun that the seller got for free? nah. Not for me.

And a gunshop has labor, electricity, and supplies to pay for, too.

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Old 01-23-2016, 08:24 PM
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I didn't think you did.
So only business owners have a right to an opinion? What business did you own?
  #63  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post

Labor? Are the cmp armorers and warehouse workers gonna get a piece of every 1911?

Electricity? Is the bill for the lights and AC in the warehouse gonna go up when the 1911's arrive?

A good deal at a gunshop where you can see the gun and inspect it?
Prices on goods for sale takes into account all relevant factors to figure a cost they just don't make up prices as they go, that's ECO101.

Let me know when you find a GI 1911 in a local gunshop, please PM so I can go look.

Why did you buy 2 Garands from the CMP that they allegedly got for free, couldn't you find one at your LGS? Why support a ripoff outfit?
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  #64  
Old 01-23-2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by eapking View Post
The Singers will be gone in 2 seconds.
The chances of a Singer showing up in this deal are slim and none, and Slim left town a day or so ago.
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  #65  
Old 01-23-2016, 09:11 PM
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Yeah pretty much where I was going with that.
  #66  
Old 01-23-2016, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Prices on goods for sale takes into account all relevant factors to figure a cost they just don't make up prices as they go, that's ECO101.

Let me know when you find a GI 1911 in a local gunshop, please PM so I can go look.

Why did you buy 2 Garands from the CMP that they allegedly got for free, couldn't you find one at your LGS? Why support a ripoff outfit?

I bought 2 Garands from them because the price was reasonable and I trust the cmp to sell me a good product. Garand at a gun shop could be some bubba special.

I don't believe a grand is a reasonable price. Same reason why I won't buy a carbine from them now. I wish I had bought one when they were reasonable, but now that they have gone stupid with carbine prices I'm not gonna play.
  #67  
Old 01-23-2016, 10:15 PM
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I don't wish to come across as "holier than thou".

I purchased my first M1 Garand back when the DCM required that you had to fire at least 60 rounds in competition (proof required), pay $128, and limited to one purchase per lifetime. If that were the case today, what type of exchange would we be seeing here now? I was also able to get a replacement '03A3 barrel for $0.98, brand new in the cosmoline wrap.

Times change, and so do prices. When the CMP replaced the DCM, it was understood that the CMP was to be totally self sufficient. All financial support ties to the Department of the Army were severed. By Congressional edict, any arms disposed by the Army was to be thru the CMP. I don't know how many people that the CMP employs, but I do know that they operate at least two facilities: CMP North at Camp Perry (which is the HQ and the Northern store), and the CMP facility at Anniston (where incoming arms are inspected and repaired, and graded). I don't know if the new range complex is at Anniston or not, so it could be a third facility.

What I do know, is that the sale of each and every arm sold by CMP is the operating income, plain and simple! As the supplies of arms, ammunition, parts, shooting supplies, and souvenirs dwindles, the prices have to go up. Without the sale of arms and such by the CMP, there is NOT any semblance of a Civilian Marksmanship Program. Today, the existence of the CMP is at the mercy of the American gun owner, unlike the DCM, whose existence was subject to the whims of Congress!
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  #68  
Old 01-23-2016, 10:35 PM
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I bought 2 Garands from them because the price was reasonable and I trust the cmp to sell me a good product. Garand at a gun shop could be some bubba special.

I don't believe a grand is a reasonable price. Same reason why I won't buy a carbine from them now. I wish I had bought one when they were reasonable, but now that they have gone stupid with carbine prices I'm not gonna play.
So you buy from a ripoff organization when it suits you, or the price is to your liking, I get it. And you took a chance sight unseen that you would get a good Garand but won't buy a 1911 sight unseen. Don't trust the CMP, you said you do? 1911 at a gunshop could be a bubba special, you know so much about a gov't 1911 to know the difference?

They obviously sold you Garands not at a loss, why would they do that, you wouldn't be able to buy any more if they went belly up.
Why then should they sell 1911's for any less than what THEY deem a cost to keep the organization going?


I believe the post before mine covers the financials.
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:37 PM
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Back on topic, great guns at a fair price, get em' while you can.
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:46 PM
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Browning was a brilliant man but parts inter changeability among same machines was achieved before he was born and the idea older than this country.
This is a bit off topic, but just to set the record straight, I wasn't talking about machines or other products from the Industrial Revolution or anything pre-1900.

Nor was I implying that Browning came up with the idea of parts interchangeability. Of course he didn't. I said that was one of the concepts he used in the 1911 to further the chances of his pistol being adopted for military use. He wanted to sell his pistol to the U. S. Army, and parts interchangeability in the field was one of the things the Army was looking for.

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Old 01-23-2016, 10:57 PM
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How timely. On Outdoor Channel, our forum's(and NRA's) own Jim Supica is talking about the 1911 on a show he hosts Gun Guru's.
He's talking about the 1911 and guns that tried to replace the 1911. Great feature story.
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  #72  
Old 01-23-2016, 10:58 PM
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I don't understand the whining. Don't buy one!


It's not always about the money.

Pretty much sums it up for me.
f.t.
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  #73  
Old 01-23-2016, 11:27 PM
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Default Rock Island Aresenal Refurb

See Attached Photo

Purchased for $950 8 months ago. 1943 Colt Frame,
1943? Ithaca complete slide. It looks all brand new to me. Stamped RIA, so it was sent through the Arsenal. But it looks as if it was never used. I have shot it a few times and it has some handling marks from being around for 73 years. Likely a DCM/NRA sale in the 1960s...I have a 1944 M1 Inland Carbine in essentially the same condition.....That one I know came from the DCM in the 1960s
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  #74  
Old 01-24-2016, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Collo Rosso View Post
Browning was a brilliant man but parts inter changeability among same machines was achieved before he was born and the idea older than this country.
You can thank the John Hall gun works at Harpers Ferry for parts interchangeability in firearms. Hall pioneered the concept with a his contract for one of the later versions of, I believe, the 1816 pattern musket. If I recall correctly the first as designed fully interchangeable US military arm was either the 1842 or 1855 musket.

I'm sure the CMP will sell out several years worth of 1911s quite easily. And the price will incrementally increase every so often. Surplus used to mean worn and obsolete. Now surplus means collectable.

I have a CMP service grade HRA Garand. Even though it's not an "all correct" rifle so that it is all HRA,it is a reliable and accurate rifle. Clearly someone at the CMP made sure my M1 was ready for use. I expect they will do the same with the 1911s.

One thing about the CMP, their prices never go down. That $1000 arsenal rehabbed 1911a1 (mixmaster) will fetch $1200 in a few years.

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Old 01-24-2016, 07:04 AM
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Who cares where the gun "was"? If it spent it's time in some storage locker in Virginia or on the island of Saipan, I want one.

Where was this $730 Garand "with almost new barrel"? Maybe Gomer Pyle carried it at the Artic Circle.
I have two rack grade Garands that I bought from the CMP
for less than $400 each. One is a Greek return that I selected
in person at the CMP North store and the other is a Danish
return that I ordered. The Danish rifles are all WW2 era and
I requested and received a rifle with a Winchester receiver.
I'm sure it was graded rack grade because of the condition
of the wood. A true mix master, but...it has a Danish VAR
barrel with an excellent bore. Maybe I just got lucky, but a
Garand with a Winchester receiver with an excellent barrel
for less than $400? I'm happy.
  #76  
Old 01-24-2016, 07:56 AM
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So you buy from a ripoff organization when it suits you, or the price is to your liking, I get it. And you took a chance sight unseen that you would get a good Garand but won't buy a 1911 sight unseen. Don't trust the CMP, you said you do? 1911 at a gunshop could be a bubba special, you know so much about a gov't 1911 to know the difference?

They obviously sold you Garands not at a loss, why would they do that, you wouldn't be able to buy any more if they went belly up.
Why then should they sell 1911's for any less than what THEY deem a cost to keep the organization going?


I believe the post before mine covers the financials.
As I have said before, 730 bucks for a service grade rifle is a very good deal. I was happy to pay it. A year before that same rifle was 675, an even better deal. I understand the cmp has operating costs, so I don't expect a rifle for 100 bucks.

But they're seizing on the excitement the release of genuine GI 1911's are getting and pricing them higher than they should, and while that is the right thing to do if you own a business, it is not the right thing to do if your stated purpose is to promote marksmanship. I can afford one of these 1911's, and might even buy one if I get a sense that a grand isn't gonna get me some bottom of the barrel trash. 1200 for a service grade 1911 comparable to either my service grade HRA, that looks like it was never even issued, or my service grade Springfield, that certainly was issued and used (8/43 receiver and barrel), would be fine by me. I'll see if the mood strikes me if and when they become available.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:04 AM
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I agree that the CMP appears to be trying to capitalize on the pent up
demand for the long awaited release of 1911s. Another thing, when I
went to the CMP store and was able to hand pick a 1903A3 and a rack
grade Garand one thing was very obvious to me. I looked at a lot of
rifles, including the 1917s. When buying the lower grade guns and
getting the next gun off the rack that they pick up and ship to you
a lot of buyers are going to be disappointed. A rack grade 1911 of
their choice for $1000 when a brand new Colt can be bought for
around $700? No.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:18 AM
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I bought a Python for $400. People bought Registered Mags for $500 maybe 10 years ago, now worth multiple thousands.
I have multiple Garands(none bought at current pricing, so what?), including 2 Collector Grades that I bought for less than a grand, one of which is a tractor gun. Good for me I guess, I must be a genius like some of you. So what? That was then this is now.

Saying how much you spent years ago has zero bearing on current day pricing, I don't see why people keep bringing that up, yesterday was yesterday. But keep repeating your "deal" if it floats your boat.

A Garand with new wood is hardly in the "it was there category" if you want to be so picky.

And with that I'm out of this back and forth

I'll try to be positive.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:22 AM
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A thousand dollars for an old 1911? I would then have to spend money to put on a Beavertail, flat MSH, ambi-safety, mill some good sights on it, and Cerakote it in a flashy color.......




I'm kidding of course. I don't have a problem with CMP pricing so high. There will be people that pay it. There are a finite amount of these and owning one is important to many collectors.

As an Army Vet that carried a 1911 for years as an MP, I really don't have any desire for one of these. Perhaps IF I could find the one that I personally carried. Then again, maybe not as that thing was well worn. I'd rather grab a new production Springfield Mil-spec and take it to the range. I'm not a collector tho.

For those of you that are, hopefully these pistols will be released in short order.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:43 AM
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A grand for a rack grade 1911? That means you'll have to spend another grand, (at least), getting it the way you want it. Any number of 1911's already built and ready to rock & roll for that kind of $$$.
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Old 01-24-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
Every item they sell goes up every year. Like clockwork. I'm glad they are there to furnish me with a rifle, but they don't have to gouge the customers (and I don't believe they do, YET, with the Garands).

But at last check, the CMP is saying there are about 18 months left until the Garand supply dries up, unless they get more that they are not counting on right now. So just what is the reason for increasing the price of those rifles, when they sure aren't giving their employees a comparable raise?

oh, that's right. They're "promoting marksmanship".
News flash! Prices of everything have gone up just about every year, at least for the 6-plus decades I've been around.

We have to live with certain realities. Sometimes we can overcome in unforeseen ways, like my recent trip to the grocery store. I know for a fact that there was no way I could possibly carry $100 worth of groceries 30 or 40 years ago, but now I can easily pick them up and carry them to my car. Am I getting a lot stronger or are we getting less for our dollars today?

Back to the CMP selling 1911-type pistols. Here is a thought: I can part out a mix-master, sell the slide for $200 to $300, barrel for $100-plus, grips for $50-plus, frame for $300 to $500, and miscellaneous small parts for $100 or more. So even a beater mix-master can be worth $750 to $1000 (depending on specific parts makers, relative rarity, etc) on the collector market (lots of folks looking for the correct parts to return their old pistols to "correct" condition). Better yet, I could purchase half-a-dozen, strip them down, then reassemble to 3 "correct" pistols and 3 mix-masters; or do the same thing with 6 "service grade" pistols that may have had some parts changes over the past 75 years, and probably show a 50% profit.

Several years ago I came across a pistol made on the Essex frame (after-market, 1970's product) with all USGI surplus parts. Slide was a 1911A-1 Colt WW2, barrel was a WW2 original, mainspring housing was Ithaca WW2, slide stop and thumb safety were Rem-Rand WW2, hammer was a Colt WW2. I put an after-market upper and spare parts on the Essex frame, making a perfectly good shooter that sold for $150 more than I had in the pistol and parts. The recovered WW2 parts sold to collectors for over $400. I made a $550 profit in less than a month.

About 20 years ago at a gun show I came across a full box of WW2 magazines. Brand new, still in the wrappers, 72 of them. I purchased the box for $150. The magazines were made by General Shaver, one of the least commonly seen WW2 producers. As collector interest rose, and the internet started providing a bigger marketplace, I eventually sold every one of those magazines to collectors, and not a one brought less than $50.

Some of the surplus pistols that many folks would turn up their noses at will be absolute gold mines for collectors. Some of us will even know what we are looking at!

I am happy to see that so many folks know so much about those old pistols that they want nothing to do with them at the expected prices!
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:22 AM
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To the people talking about the CMP as a "business" gouging people, you do realize that they are not a for profit organization? They keep their overhead as low as they can to put more money towards shooting sports. They run the Camp Perry shoots as well as many other shooting functions that run the gamut from teaching to expert. Nobody is lining their pockets there. They charge what the market will take so they can put more money to the purpose of their charter, shooting sports and their promotion.

Anyone who thought they were going to get even a rack grade USGI 1911 for anywhere near $500 is living in a alternate reality. I bought one of the Sistema 1911's at Gander Mountain about 10 years ago for $250 and that was a screaming deal back then. You are lucky to find one today for $500. I am getting really tired of this negativity. I expect better on this site and am disappointed to see the extent of it here.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:51 AM
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Way too many conclusions being jumped at here.

First of all is that nobody knows for certain IF these guns will actually be released for sale. All we know is that they can be.

Nobody knows what condition they are in. But they are in storage and considered serviceable.

CMP is required to inspect every gun and repair as needed. No doubt some will be used purely as parts to repair others. But in the end, every gun sold will be in safe working order and meet the specifications. Which BTW are somewhat loose on purpose as the guns were designed for combat conditions.

The newest of these pistols would have been built in the mid to late 1940s. Over the years the vast majority will have been arsenal reworked at least once, maybe more. The odds of an original, all correct pistol are unimaginable. And if a few should actually show up, they will be auctioned for a whole lot more than $1000.

These days $1000 for a U.S.G.I issue 1911 is not unreasonable. If you don't believe that, check the auction sites.

Finally, if the guns were released today, I figure with having to set up the system, shipping, receiving, inspecting, repairs, grading and whatever else, that the first guns likely won't be available for sale for something like two years anyway.

So why don't all you nay-sayers quit pissin' and moanin' until we actually see what shows up in the stores.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:03 PM
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Before my accident almost 9 years ago, I was a regular participant in the CMP matches at Camp Perry. Since I am now engaging in the prone only matches, I really can't shoot the CMP rifle matches, but I do see the side programs that CMP does conduct during the Nationals.

They do an awful lot to support Juniors, who ARE the future of our sport. The DCM/CMP wasn't designed to benefit the older, more experienced shooters like us, but to introduce the youth to our sport so it continues. We support the Juniors via our support of the DCM/CMP!

Look at the original mission of the DCM/CMP/NBPRP, it was to train youth in preparation for military service in the use of military style firearms. That is because a 140 some odd years ago, our military marksmanship left too much to be desired!

Forgive me if some of you get perturbed by what I say now, but our country is in the midst of a shooting war, with the potential that shots will be exchanged here as long as our border remains pourous! This is when we need people to be familiar with the use of the service rifle, and be proficient in their marksmanship skills. The NRA in partnership with the CMP IS doing that.

Yes, the surplus arms passing through the CMP may be over priced.

Yes, you can probably purchase a brand spanking new mil-spec 1911 for less than a released, military issue 1911.

Yes, some of you can make a profit by buying these veterans and making a complete manufacture 1911 and sell off the extra parts.

... but is that what the CMP is for?

Perhaps, if we keep the initial mission of the DCM/CMP/NRA/NBPRP in mind, we should ask, what have you done to prepare the future generations tasked to protect this great nation?
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:35 PM
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I think the sad reality is if these guns were sold at a price that would make everyone happy, say 500 bucks, the year's quota would be snapped up in the first week by flippers and hit the resale market at over a grand anyway. I'd rather have CMP get the money.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:22 PM
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I believe someone asked about C&R eligibility of these GI 1911's.
From the COO of the CMP, straight off the CMP forum.
03 licensees will not be able to have direct shipment to them.

"The C&R will not be sufficient for purchase of a 1911 if we ever receive any from the Army. The current CMP purchase procedures will be followed with the addition off the 1911 being shipped to the Type 001 FFL to a Type 001 FFL. We will know more after the MOU with the Army is written."
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:56 PM
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If they are actually going to be allowed to sell them that's great...and I am shocked. I was certain someone in DC living at taxpayer expense would stop the sale.

Genuine WW II 1911s bring a lot of money. I would not have expected the CMP guns to be cheap. Do you want a new gun for shooting or a piece of history? That's what you're buying with one of these.

I assume that $1K gets you a real beater. Expect to pay much more for anything resembling a nice gun...if there are any nice ones available. I've heard they are all pretty much worn out.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:09 PM
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My Army combat engineer battalion converted from a wheeled unit to Mechanized in 1985. We got the M113 APCs that the infantry turned in when they got their Bradley's.

We also received a bunch of 1911s for the drivers and squad leaders, so we may have been one of the last units to ever be issued 1911s. Every one of them was a mixmaster rattletrap. They fired every time you pulled the trigger, but some of them couldn't even hit the paper targets we were supposed to qualify on.

My expectations are that these are the kind of guns that the CMP will eventually get. They will have little value as a shooter, so if that is what you are looking for try somewhere else.

As an aside, the motor pool guys were issued M3 grease guns to carry in their M88 recovery vehicle. Probably the last unit issued those too.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:12 PM
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This is still a free country. There is no debate, it's your choice to
buy what you want. The sale of these military guns & ammo
was suppose to be to advance civilian marksmanship. The selling
price is not the big issue, although I think it prices a lot of people
out. These guns were not intended for resale nor multiple buys
to hoard as a investment. I know guys that bought CMP guns.
M-1s and 22 target rifles and immediately put them up for sale.
Not what program was intended for. I'll buy one for $1000, if
they give profits to Wounded Warriors.
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
This is still a free country. There is no debate, it's your choice to
buy what you want. The sale of these military guns & ammo
was suppose to be to advance civilian marksmanship. The selling
price is not the big issue, although I think it prices a lot of people
out. These guns were not intended for resale nor multiple buys
to hoard as a investment. I know guys that bought CMP guns.
M-1s and 22 target rifles and immediately put them up for sale.
Not what program was intended for. I'll buy one for $1000, if
they give profits to Wounded Warriors.
I'd buy one at an inflated price if they gave the profits to wounded warriors, too.
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects View Post
Yes. I am working for free, doing pro bono legal work and putting on free seminars that i call "What To Do After Your Self Defense Shooting," a legal seminar for CCW licencees. My range provides space, beverages and administrative assistance for free. It is a very popular free program.

HA! I fooled you!!!
Not fair, you handed out business cards.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by clang444 View Post
We also received a bunch of 1911s for the drivers and squad leaders, so we may have been one of the last units to ever be issued 1911s. Every one of them was a mixmaster rattletrap. They fired every time you pulled the trigger, but some of them couldn't even hit the paper targets we were supposed to qualify on.
Yessir, it's always the gun's fault, ain't it? Whoop!
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:38 AM
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I believe someone asked about C&R eligibility of these GI 1911's.
From the COO of the CMP, straight off the CMP forum.
03 licensees will not be able to have direct shipment to them.

"The C&R will not be sufficient for purchase of a 1911 if we ever receive any from the Army. The current CMP purchase procedures will be followed with the addition off the 1911 being shipped to the Type 001 FFL to a Type 001 FFL. We will know more after the MOU with the Army is written."
Sounds like some new unnecessary nonsense is being added.
When I bought my Garands from the CMP they were shipped
directly to me as well as all the other buyers. Once you were
determined to be a qualified buyer the guns were shipped
directly, no FFL needed, C&R or 01.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:53 AM
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No, I do not do this to drum up business. I tell all of the attendees to NOT call me if they need a lawyer and, instead, find a lawyer on Martindale.com BEFORE they need the attorney.

I was just yankin' your chain. Your services are much appreciated I imagine.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:02 PM
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I thought about the C&R angle too as I have one. I was thinking about making the trip to Anniston and picking out a pistol. Now, I'm not so sure.
I sent CMP an e-mail yesterday asking about this:

"IF the 1911 pistols are offered for sale, I've heard that they can't be shipped to a C&R holder. However, can a C&R holder purchase a pistol in person at the CMP store and take delivery at that time? Or will it still have to be shipped to an 01 FFL?

Can a non-FFL purchase a pistol at the store and take it home with them?"

Here's the response I got this morning:
"Sir,
We do not have any information at this time. If anything changes it will be posted on the website.
Thank you,

CMP Customer Service
custserve@thecmp.org
256-835-8455"

Apparently the folks at CMP are just as much in the dark as everybody else. All they know for sure is that a law has been passed that that MIGHT let them sell some 1911s.

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that these pistols, IF they are ever sold, will have to be shipped to and transferred through an 01 FFL. Thus adding more time, expense and paperwork to the process.

Damn, here I was hoping to make a little road trip and come home with a piece of history. I should have known it wouldn't be that easy.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:19 PM
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those of you who don't want to jump through all the CMP hoops to purchase - your choice. I'm glad you have no idea what those hoops are. Singers: Personal opinion: I'd suspect it's reasonable to expect there are one or two hundred of them still in govt inventory. Even if only fifty, they'll probably end up on the auction. They'll probably take parts from others to make them as complete as possible. The CMP guys will go through every 1911 to make sure they're reasonably serviceable. They like their guns to go "boom" but not "ka-blooey!" They can and should sell them for what they can get for them - when all the guns are gone, they'll still be able to run youth programs, etc with the money they've put away. They need as big a legacy as they can make. You can't consider a CMP purchase as anything less than a donation to the shooting sports cause. Don't kid yourself with any lesser thought. If you get a bargain, consider it a blessing.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WATCHDOG View Post
Yessir, it's always the gun's fault, ain't it? Whoop!
Where I served most soldiers were proficient with their small arms. Maybe it was different in the Air Force.
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
This is still a free country. There is no debate, it's your choice to
buy what you want. The sale of these military guns & ammo
was suppose to be to advance civilian marksmanship. The selling
price is not the big issue, although I think it prices a lot of people
out. These guns were not intended for resale nor multiple buys
to hoard as a investment. I know guys that bought CMP guns.
M-1s and 22 target rifles and immediately put them up for sale.
Not what program was intended for. I'll buy one for $1000, if
they give profits to Wounded Warriors.
The CMP's eligibility requirements, be a member of an eligible CMP recognized club and demonstrate that you've taken a marksmanship class, are supposed to help ensure that the weapons are used to advance marksmanship. I think the fact that the CMP arsenals the weapons and installs Criterion barrels on the M1s demonstrates they are trying to keep on task with promoting marksmanship. But, yes, some eligible purchasers only buy for resale or to collect.

The government used to actively promote marksmanship. My FIL and his father were both in the Home Guard during WWII. One was too young to serve and the other too old. So, they shot every weekend with a surplus 1918 RIA '03. The arrangement was the Guard member supplied the gun, the government supplied the range and ammo. Both were excellent marksmen and my FIL later served in occupied Germany as an armorer.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
A grand for a rack grade 1911? That means you'll have to spend another grand, (at least), getting it the way you want it. Any number of 1911's already built and ready to rock & roll for that kind of $$$.
God, I hope you're just joking around with that comment. The condition I would want mine to be in would be very well worn, rattle a lot, but be completely functional.
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
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Where I served most soldiers were proficient with their small arms.
Right. They were proficient, but they couldn't stay on the paper? Okey dokey. That's right, though, I keep forgettin' it was the fault of them ol' rattletrap G.I. .45s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clang444 View Post
Maybe it was different in the Air Force.
Might have been, I can't speak for the whole danged Air Force (apologies to Will Stockdale). But just like the Army, and every other branch of the military, we had our share of weenies who couldn't hit the floor if they dropped the pistol on it. Most of 'em finally got the hang of it, though.

Speaking for myself only, I think the last time I ever missed the paper completely might have been back when I was around 9-years-old and shootin' my daddy's .22 rifle for the first time. That was well over a half-century ago, though. Now, I'm no kind of a marksman, but I've never missed the paper at 25- or 50-yards with any 1911, old or new. That includes my "mixmaster rattletrap" 1943 Remington Rand in the photo below.



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