I've got a few "classic" type 9mm pistols of the S&W (39s, 59s, and others, Beretta, Walther, HP, and Star varieties. (I also have a couple of plastic pistols for carry, including my primary one, a Shield., and an SD9VE and SW990L) Nothing of real collector status, just good ole old school pistols that are good shooters.

I'd like to explore a bit further afield in the "classic" (read: older, non plastic) direction.

I've ruled out Broomhandles, Sig 210s and a few others based on price, and am thinking in the direction of Lugers or Lahti or.....? (Gotta be 9mm as I reload for that.)

But I'm really leery of Lugers. First, I worry they are overpriced due to their raging popularity. True, they are iconic, but there's a premium to be paid for that, one I'm not sure I want to absorb. They also seem fiddly and complicated. I'm semi-at home inside most of my other pistols, I worry about the Luger. Finally, there is soooo many different flavors....how does one find something basic and decent without getting into stuff that hasn't been faked or pieced together out of old parts (which if they work is perfectly fine for me), how much study do I need to be sure I'm getting what I want?

Which brings me to the Lahti. I've got some Finn and Swede rifles and having a Nordic pistol would be kinda neat. Appreciate any advice folks might give me in that direction.

There are other possibilities including Radom or Astra 600. I'd be willing to sell something to help finance something better (I sold a couple to finance a Walther P5)....but I'm looking for a direction to go in. Any suggestions from the shooters/collectors out there? 

Lugers are still way cool. You might also seriously consider something almost as iconic, like a CZ-75 or Browning Hi-Power. Also P-38 P-1 Walthers are still out there for not too ridiculous prices.

Thank your for the response...had a CZ75 and hated it. I know, I'm the only guy in the world who doesn't like 'em, but I just couldn't warm up to it and could only shoot it so so....not as well as my FEG HP clone. Have an FN HP and P38/P1....so I'm still look'n.

As I read your post up to the last couple of lines I had Radom on the tip of my tongue then I saw you've considered one.

To keep it affordable how about some of the 9 MMs that flopped as commercial ventures? A civilian version of S. Korea's military pistol came and went. They were a double action first shot except the hammer could be lowered without taking the tension off the mainspring. They basically had Para-Ordence's LDA for the first shot only. There was the Browning double action that could be set for double action only or traditional double/single action. My FEG (P9S?) is an inexpensive but very accurate and reliable traditional double action pistol. Its draw backs are that it has a ****** double action and absolutely no prestige. Old Sig P220 9 MMs with the European magazine release sell for low prices but are reliable and accurate.

Your answer is one of the guns that you mention, the Astra 600. The
600 was developed at the request of the Nazis. It's a scaled down
copy of the older 400 for the 9mm Luger ctg. Introduced in 1943 they
were for an original order by the Nazis but only a few ever made it to
their hands due to the allied advance. They are often seen on GB and
prices can vary somewhat depending how much they are hyped by the
sellers. The Nazis only received about 10,000 of an order for 25,000
and total production was somewhere around 65,000. The 600 is a very
simple and strong blowback 9mm. The history of the undelivered guns
varies and isn't often clear but many that show up on GB are in
excellent condition and sell for very reasonable prices. I have a very
nice one. I have a couple of Lugers also and have thought about
buying another but it has gotten to the point where rough pitted
mix-masters may go for $750 on up and I'm not buying at those prices.
I've seen excellent Astras go for under $400 and they are a true piece
of history.

H&K P7s? P9S? They were on the cutting edge of the 9mm craze in the 70s and 80s.

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Because of the metric system?

I think Lugers are more expensive than Broomhandles.

These are old classic guns. I don't see what's to be leery about. They are all complicated for today's world. They are all old so in a sense they are all pieced together from old parts. Many have been rebuilt at one point. Or you're paying thousands. I had a Luger a few years ago that was reblued at some point and had a none original side plate. Great gun, great bore and cost me $375. It was a great piece of history but not a collectable.

Lahtis are fetching very high prices these days. There is a reason the Swedes called them "The Iron Stove" too, they weigh a ton.

Nothing can compare to a Luger, the way it sits in your hand, the looks, the toggle flying open when you pull the trigger. I don't think they are that complicated but they can be finicky. If a mixmaster will work for you I suggest finding one. They are the ultimate 9mm. to own.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

While a Luger is the way to go, I haven't seen any nice ones at the shows lately. A nice one would be a common (1939 maybe) high-end shooter with all matching parts and serial numbers for $1200. All the ones I've seen as of late have been nickeled (what a shame), guns that won't even function as a gun, and mismatched and/or seriously damaged. These Lugers are all parts guns. Yet, they want close to $1K for all of them. Go figure. I should mention that the problem-free ones are setting out for around $2K. Not in my ballpark.

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Dr. B

As you noted, nice P08s are expensive but fairly plentiful (millions were produced). Like revolvers of a certain familiar company, parts were numbered to the gun and a little education and inspection can tell you if it has been refinished. I have no particular feelings for or against Lahtis, but I can say I don't see as many for sale - they look somewhat the same as a P08 but they are not the same gun .

Good luck in your decision.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Lahtis are neat, but seldom seen, and costly. I had a Swedish version of the Lahti many years ago, another of the many I wish I had kept. I do not know how many variations exist of the Finnish and Swedish Lahtis. I do know that the action was purposely designed to allow reliable functioning in arctic conditions. If you have the budget for it, Lahtis would be great to collect.

You might consider U. S.-made .32 and .380 pocket pistols of the pre-WWII era. Lots of variety from numerous manufacturers (S&W, Colt, Remington, H&R, Davis-Warner, and Savage for the most part) and multiple variations. It's not impossible to find them in excellent condition at sub-Luger prices, and building a complete collection is challenging but not impossible. Also, you might consider P-38s, but they are getting costly also.

They're out there. You just have to be diligent and patient.

Here's a Luger I recently picked up for $600. It is a S/42, all matching and, unfortunately, refinished. It has a nice barrel and will make a nice shooter.


And here's a Lahti I found for under $600 (at Cabela's no less)


And it came with the following:

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

A shooter grade Walther P-38 is an excellent choice, I have one that dates to 1944, my father mail ordered it in 1961 ( I tried to talk him into getting a P-08 Luger, they cost $10.00 more and the old man said the P-38 was "better"), I have replaced the springs and now we go shooting regularly. It a nice shooter . Not as much collector interest in the P-38 and the aluminum framed version ( P-1 I think ) as the Luger , so can be had for a reasonable amount.
The Astra 600 are also a possibility , a high school buddy had one and we shot it and the P-38 a lot. Surplus 9mm ammo was cheap in the 1960's. I always thought the 600 was a cool looking gun and it shot well.
Gary

As a Swede i find it VERY important to separate the Finnish "Lahti L35" to the Swedish "Husqvarna m40"

The Swedish pistol m/1940 - Husqvarna and Lathi V35

FINNISH ARMY 1918 - 1945: REVOLVERS & PISTOLS PART 1

Qball,
Sorry about that! (I get generically lazy at times.)

Mine is a Husqvarna M/1940 and is a Danish Police contract piece.

(I would love to have Finn, but they are, and always have been, quite pricey.)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Yes sir
No problem, i'm just joking

I remember your m40 i think we discussed it through email?

There are literally dozens of P-38 variations, and some collectors specialize in them, also P-38 Holsters. I have only one left, a Mauser from 1944, but it is in superb condition and has what I believe to be the original German military soft holster. I do not shoot it any more after seeing what these in similar condition sell for today. I'll date myself in saying that I remember when you could go out and buy a truckload of random P-38s for $25 each. Every pawnshop in America probably had many of them in stock at any given time.

If you aren't in a hurry and are willing to wait until the right deal comes along, you should be able to get a nice Swedish M40 with all the accessories for a decent price. Shooter grade Lugers are out there also as you can see from a previous post. I bought an M40 a few years ago and really enjoy shooting it. It is a heavy duty pistol and will give years of good service.

Husqvarna M40

I also like the older, metal 9's, and have picked up a few of what you seem to have (S&Ws, Star's, Beretta, and I happen to love my CZ!). If you're undecided but still want to "get something" for the meantime, you might look at the older Chinese T-54 Tokarev's in 9mm.
Don't scoff until you check a decent one out; I have a couple, and from what I can tell, these were older military Toks, with a new 9mm barrel in place (not the 213). They run dirt cheap when you find one, mine feed without a glitch with regular tok mags made for 7.62, and I still find them to be among the most accurate 9's I have. You should be able to get one under $200 still if you look. The shape is a little homely, but internally they have a lot in common with the 1911.

It's not a Luger, but you won't find a Luger around $150, and you might find a Norinco for that.

I've owned a bunch of 9MMs over the years, including a couple Lugers. Neither of my Lugers,a 1918 DWM and much later a 1938 Mauser, were very nice examples or very reliable. Never had one, but always thought a clean Astra 600 might be an interesting gun to own. Probably more reliable than either of my Lugers too

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

I vote the Luger. But the broomhandle is pretty cool too. And the broomhandle is more expensive than the Luger. Good luck.

Astra 400s and 600s are very interesting pistols, among the few 9mm designs having blowback operation. Also, there are several variations, including those made for use by the Nazis, and the earlier predecessors like the Campo-Giro. My only caution is to not attempt dissassembly unless absolutely necessary. They are a bear to get back together. They are also not particularly pleasant to fire.

Avoid the Lahti. The Swedish govt. withdrew them due to easy breakage and replaced them at the time with the former M-1903 9mm Browning Long.

Ask Q-Ball to tell you more than just posting links.

I can't believe that it took until now for someone to post this info. Cyrano and a few others here may know this, but he doesn't seem to be on the board tonight.

Save Lahtis for collectors.

I have an Astra M1921 (M400) in 9mm Largo and to tell the truth, I can't rack the slide on it any more. My hands just aren't strong enough to overcome both the recoil spring an the hammer spring at the same time.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

My M600 Astra was totally reliable w/FMJ ammo. The pistol is heavy by todays standards and the slide can be hard to pull back for some.
But they are beautifully made and machined pistols. Finished in a rust blue w/ certain parts left in the white.
I would have kept it except I was unable to pull the slide back anymore due to several arm injuries.
A very accurate and comfortable 9mm to shoot.
The Astra 400 the same, but is slightly longer and is chambered for 9mmLargo,not 9mmLuger.
Don't fall for the old 50's and 60's marketing claim that the M400 was designed to shoot everything in 9mm from the 380, 9mmLuger & 38Super to the 9mmLargo.
Yes, they will chamber and sometimes (often) go bang if the extractor snags the case rim upon chambering. But gross headspace on the shorter rounds if the get shoved forward and overpressure with the 38Super can lead to severe damage to the pistol and possibly the operator.
They will safely feed and fire the 38acp round generally even though it is a semi-rimmed case and the 9mmLargo is a rimless. Pressure is not the problem and the breech face is generous enough on most all pistols to accept the 38acp case head.

A nice shooter grade Luger in 9mm can be had with some looking for under $1000. Do some homework on the different eras, mfg's, common & rare guns. What's usually rebuilt, what to look for. The Russian & VOPO imports of the 90's, Replacement magazines and how common they are, ect, ect.

There's FN HighPowers (pre-war/War-time/early post war) that are classic. There were a bunch of the early post-war mfg made for the Austrian Police and Border Guards sold as surplus in the 90's. Very nice condition guns.

P38's are always nice. The alloy framed post-war P1 & P38 are still available at reasonable cost. Some versions are getting collector interest like certain short contract issues. Even the general issue P1 and P38 are getting broken down into sub groups by different small features making pricing them difficult sometimes.

The only gun I have had a fascination with was the Broomhandle Mauser. I don't know why but it's so odd and unique that I'm drawn to it like a bug to light. I'd still shoot the snot out of it given the opportunity but it's the only one on my bucket list and it doesn't even have to be a mint one. Just a good shootet

"Don't fall for the old 50's and 60's marketing claim that the M400 was designed to shoot everything in 9mm from the 380, 9mmLuger & 38Super to the 9mmLargo."

Correct, it was designed only for the 9mm Largo/Bergmann-Bayard. Despite that, they will fire .38 Super, .38 Auto, 9mm Steyr, and 9x19, even though it may not be a good idea to do so. I have fired all of them in a Model 400 I had many years ago. I have a friend who fired a magazine full of 9x23mm Winchester in his M400, and it held together without damage - he's a braver (or more foolhardy) man than I. One of the older editions of Gun Digest has a fairly lengthy article on exactly that topic.

That is true, however the swedish military used the infamos "red9" submachinegun round.
It is also true that SIG/Neuhausen P210 cracks, but aparently only in Sweden?
And that the Swedish Mauser m96 is made of glass.
At least thats "the word" in Sweden.

For a "shooter" Luger, I prefer the Mausers which were produced in the '70s. These were built on swiss tooling, the Mauser brought back to Germany. These are nicely finished, and available in interesting configurations.

Another under appreciated pistol with a great history are the Hi-Powers produced in Canada by Inglis.

I picked this one up on consignment in a small gun shop a couple of years back for $550. It shoots great. You don't find them every day, but keep looking.

As I said earlier, I can't handle both the recoil and hammer spring at the same time. As long as the hammer is cocked, I can manage the recoil spring (barely). So with the automatic hold-open there's no problem (and I remember not to drop the hammer before storing it) I'm OK.
However if I have a misfire, I'm toast.....

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I picked up a husqvarna m40 lahti, Danish. No cracks I got a good one.
These aren't made to use machine gun ammo in them. I have some surplus Spanish 9mm parabellium ammo that's pretty hot by 9mm ammo standards. I don't shoot it in my finicky pistols. My star pistols like it.
But the Swedish lahti is a heavy pistol. I like anything husqvarna. My 100 year old++++++++(1907) Carl Gustaf m96 Mauser with iron sights at 100yds will shoot better than most scoped new rifles. She makes me a proud owner on every trip to the range. I own husqvarna motorcycles and chain saws too. I want the best quality my money can buy.

If you search for,, "9mm largo" the website comes up with pictures of every pistol in 9mm largo ever manufactured. Lots of info.

I see $1500 Lugers sometimes. And even higher priced as the broomhandles are.

It is hard to beat the old broomhandle!

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I saw two Astra 400s today at the local gun show. Not terrible but obviously well used. Marked at $210 each, probably not a bad price for today. I saw a couple of other 400s priced somewhat higher.

Here is another of the Danish Police Contract (D prefix S/N) M40 Lahti's. I have examined the frame in the area known to crack carefully, and avoid anything other than standard US factory 115 and 124 gr. FMJ loads. The Danish guns were not subjected to the M39 ammo that was known to crack frames in Swedish service, but then again you do not know what previous owners have done with them in the last 30-50 years since they appeared on the surplus market. So be cautious....

I been on and off looking for a Luger but to calm my hunger for a while I found a nice Stoeger 22lr Luger to have some stinking plinking fun with.

I have a very nice early .22 Stoeger Luger, and it shot so well for me that I even used it in competition for a few years. The fixed open sights were dead on at 25 yards. It is much more reliable shooting standard velocity .22 LR than high speed. It's sort of finicky about what high speed ammo it liked, it definitely does not like the bulk pack Remington and Federal .22 ammunition.

No one's mentioned the stainless Lugers made in TX by Mitchell. Has anyone tried one?

Two decades ago++ I turned down two broomhandles for $300 each they needed barrel relining or new barrels. Stupid me.

There are still those out there who reline shot-out Broomhandle barrels. There is a Broomhandle Mauser forum that has lots of information about them.

"No one's mentioned the stainless Lugers made in TX by Mitchell. Has anyone tried one?"

I've never owned one personally, but we had more than a few in for repair in a large shop I worked in in the 90's.

To be fair, the guns were all made by a company named Aimco in Houston Tx. Mitchell Arms was the front company established for marketing them the first time around. Many of the employees involved in Mitchell and with the factory Aimco were former High Standard people.
(Mitchell also made High Standard clone .22 auto pistols too. I think a law suit over them ended their Texas production)

The Lugers made under the Mitchel name were pretty good pistols I guess. Fit and finish was decent. Occasionally a part would break from a void in the casting (these are made from all investment cast S/Steel parts other than small pins, springs, ect). A change of magazine usually 'fixed' any complaint of fail to feed.

At some point Mitchell sold out to Stoeger Arms (NJ?) . The guns were still made by the local Aimco Co (which I was led to believe was originally making some sort of machinery or parts for the local oil drilling industry. How true that is I don't know).
Stoeger owned (still does) the 'Luger' trade name in North America so it could lable the pistols as a 'Luger'. But the quality suffered after a short time in production under that name. Sloppy, heavy buffed finishing to the metal was the chief complaint along with poor fitting parts. The results were jammo-matic pistols and a lot more complaints.
We stopped taking the Mitchell/Stoeger Luger pistols in for service. Broken triggers were a common factor on the Stoeger branded guns and getting replacement parts from the factory was slow.

Granted I only got to see the broken pistols and the angry Mitchell & Stoeger Luger customers. But the guns generally didn't have a very good reputation.
A few people do seem to have very good luck with them and they chug along just fine shooting them on a regular basis.
,,,I guess you can say the same for the real ones too.

I was never too impressed with them overall to be honest. For what they usually price them, I'll stick with an original.