I have a few 870 Wingmasters but occasionally I run across one that is actually stamped "Wingmaster Deer" on the right side of the receiver, just below the ejection port. Of the few I have seen all of them have the high gloss finish, high gloss stock, chrome colored bolt with a smooth bore barrel and rifle sights. Just wondering how common these are?

I have an 870 Wingmaster I bought new in late '82, ser. #V822XXXV. It has high gloss finished beautiful grained checkered walnut stock and fore end. Polished blue steel receiver and 2 barrels, a 28' Mod. plain barrel and a 20" IC smoothbore slug barrel with rifle sights, both polished blue. Darn thing is so pretty I haven't had the heart to actually carry it to the the woods but a few times, and even then I was so careful with it I didn't really have much fun. Still not a mark on it. I have a few beaters I shoot often. I think ribbed barrels weren't standard until '83. It only has Remington and Wingmaster 870 stamped on left side of receiver. I think I paid around $250 plus tax at a JC Penny in sporting goods while wife was shopping for a new dress for her birthday. Things were different then. She still calls it her birthday gun.

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Just a shooter

Before bringing out the Express models with the dull finish all of the
870s had a polished blue finish with a chrome plated bolt. Slug barrels
were smooth bore with rifle sights and had a polished blue finish.
Stocks were walnut with a somewhat glossy finish with the standard
"checkering" which was actually impressed into the wood and not cut.
This gave rise to the label "ironed in" checkering. Early guns also had
a chrome plated loading gate. Purely ornamental as the loading gate
is a thin sheet metal stamping but it looks nice. The 870 has been in
production for a long time and markings varied quite a bit in part
because the 870 has always been sold in the big box stores and so
were marked according to retailer's wishes.

I bought one while hunting last season that was marked Light Weight. I had seen that often on 1100's. but never on an 870.

There are two basic rules involving the 870 Wingmaster.

1. If you have one, keep it.
2. If you don't have one, find one and buy it.

I have had many 870s in my life, 410-12g. I have Deer marked
870 slug gun. Bought new in 60's. Never liked it because was use to Win 12. Used very little, shot 3" at 100" consistently with plain
old slugs. The only reason I still have it, one of first new guns that I bought as a kid. With the demise of the old guns built with
milled parts, 870 is the best pump on the market.

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Glad to hear so many have held onto there old Wingmasters. Used ones should be worth a premium but can often be found for a reasonable price. Darn nice gun with great features like decent bluing and walnut. Don't care to comment on the "Express"

870 Express is a tool and a good one.

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Just a shooter

I have an 870 Express have it built up the same as we used in the Corps. http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...03/12ga1-1.jpg Has had many thousand rounds of OO buck and slug through it, never anything lighter. Best darn shotgun in the world to me.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

The 870 express is a better gun than the old Wingmasters period. The
Express is just the Wingmaster with the improvements that have been
phased in over a long production history. The finish is dull and the
wood is Birch or synthetic but the design of the gun is unchanged, just
made stronger and more reliable via various improvements.

You're probably right about the Express being good or better but there is something about the finish that I just don't like. We like most departments keep them in our car/trunks some in cases some not and unlike the old WingMasters the Express' finish is terrible. Its impossible for us to keep them from rusting, the finish is porous and I have tried everything and you can always wipe rust off them.
Love the 870s but hate the Express' because of the finish.

I would tend to agree. I do have a Walnut stock set for mine, but have never put it on. I used that 870 to teach Combat Shotgun to Marines and Sailors for a couple of years. Still runs like new.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Have never had a problem with mine rusting. This was a working gun and never had much care other than an wipe down before being put away. It is one of the first Expresses sold when I bought it. My son-in-law had a problem with his Department Issue Blued 870 rusting in his trunk. Had him clean it and wipe it down once in a while and that seemed to take care of the problem.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I have both the Wingmaster and Express versions and both feel the same.

It's Unamerican not to own one!

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I would be interested to know what the upgrades on the Express
are that makes it better than the older wing masters.

Buy the Kuhnhausen shop manual on the 870 and 1100 Rem
shotguns, a good investment for anybody that owns one.
Without going into all the details the improvements to the
870 include stronger barrels with thicker walls, beefed up
shell stops and action bars and the flexi-tab anti jam changes
that were designed to address the serious potential jam that
could happen with the 870. With many LEO departments
using the 870 a need was recognized to find a solution to
the jam that happens when a shell gets past the shell stops
and comes out of the magazine and lays on the carrier.
Major problem for anyone using the 870 for SD. The flexi-tab
design changes were designed to help with this and
Kuhnhausen says any 870 used for SD should have them. The
new parts are available as a package and can be retro-fit to
older guns.

The 870 & 1100 are very easy to take apart and reassemble. The
jam caused by shell getting past stops was common on 870 WM
Other than that, I had a guy bring one in that was so dirty, that
it fired without bolt locking, resulting in bolt blowing back, wiping
out action bars and fore end. Never had any with issues with
weak barrels. I've had a few Express models, taken on trades, but never took one apart. The biggest problem with all repeating
shotguns is spray cleaners and lubes. Guys keep spraying them
out. Residue ends up turning hard and restricts movement of
parts. This is major cause of most problems. With the thousands
of 870 WMs in use for years, I don't think I'll trade my for a Express, I'm not planing on using mine for a club.

if a Glock is a hammer, the 870 is the anvil. got several. 1 is an older wingmaster and the others police tacticals. my fav. has probably close to 20, 000 rounds of buck and slugs down the pipe. the only mossberg to come close is the newer 590 series. i'll keep my 870's thank you very much, and upon thinking of it, i may NEED to add another.

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why? why not?

First of all one thing needs to be understood about the 870. Express
and Wingmaster are just names that Remington put on their 870s over
the years. People talk about them as if they are different models.
They are 870s period. The 870, regardless of what name is stamped on
it is an 870. The design of the 870 has remained basically unchanged
over the production history except for various improvements phased in
from time to time. The thicker and stronger barrels are not for clubbing
anyone, except maybe those who used steel shot in thin barrels. The
design of the 870 allowed for change of choke by switching barrels.
This has evolved into the far more simple and cheaper use of choke
tubes. Thicker barrel walls allow for threads and enough steel to
retain strength and are able to handle steel shot better. If you prefer
to believe your old "Wingmaster"(catchy name huh?) is superior to the
later 870s marked "Express" then be sure if you're ever involved in a
SD fight and your gun experiences the 870 jam that you call time out
so the bad guy will give you time for the quick 870 disassemble and
clear before resuming the battle.

forgot to mention, i think so highly of my 870's, i named my son "Remington"...

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why? why not?

What a coincidence. My grandson is named Remington, and I can't wait until he is old enough for his own 870.

My favorite Remington 870 (below):

I own five 870s: a 1960 TC trap, a 1977 Wingmaster, a 1978 Wingmaster 20ga, a 1988 Express (my HD shotgun), and a 1990 Special Purpose. The jamming problem some people experience with older 870s is usually due to short stroking the slide. The Flexi Tab was introduced to fix what is really operator error.

Frankly I've never had the dreaded jam with my older 870s, but I make sure that I fully work the slide, as well as clean and lube my shotguns.

The early Express (first few years) used a bead blasted blue finish. If you take care of the finish as you should with any firearm-just wipe it down periodically, it won't rust.

The current Wingmasters and Police models have more hand fitting to the action than the Express models. The first five years or so of Express were more hand fitted (W prefix serials).

There was a run of Express in the early 2000s with reported rough chambers. A little polishing clears this up.

For wing shooting and clay shooting the fixed choke and Light Contour (LC) barrels are better balanced and more lively than the Remchoke barrels. The Remchokes are just heavier and have more weight at the muzzle

I have to agree with most of what you say. I also own five
870s, two Wingmasters, one 1980 and one older, and three
Express's, two recent and one early. The jamming problem
is mostly shooter error but the magazine and shell stop
design could contribute to the error. The 870 requires the
shell to be fully inserted into the magazine tube before
being released. Shooters push a round in, hear a click and
stop.Wrong. Shove that shell farther in than it seems to
need. I have no problems with any of my guns rusting
because I keep them properly lubed but in general I have
found that polished blue seems to be more resistant to
rust than the bead blast finishes of any guns. And for hunting
it's true that plain barrels are lighter and more responsive
than heavier barrels. One gunwriter wrote that no hunting
gun needs a vent rib. Thick barrels with vent ribs and choke
tubes are the norm these days but cannot match the
handling in the field of the old thin plain unribbed barrel. One
plus is that 870 Express barrels of 21" with choke tubes
can be found. I have one and they can't be beaten for
versatility and handling.

alwslate,

I agree with you. You're correct that you have to make sure the shell is pushed up into the magazine past the first click. That's true with many shotguns. If I don't fully push a shell into the magazine of my Beretta 391, instead of loading the shell after firing it will drop the shell onto ground. I guess I've just got in the habit of making sure I fully push the shell in

I'll have to try the 21". It sounds like a nice upland barrel!

What amazes me is that my 56 year old TC is the slickest 870 I own. I have no idea how many rounds previous owners have shot, but there were enough that a spot was worn through the finish on the cheek rest.

I disagree. The Express is a budget gun. The Wingmaster, old or new, is higher quality. Higher quality finish, higher quality stocks, .... Just nicer gun. Think Lincoln vs. Ford.

They may have had improvements over the years for certain roles, such as flex tab for defensive purposes, but I'll still take an older, well cared for Wingmaster over a new Express any day. They may be the same design, but they are two different levels of quality... If the Express were the better gun as you so stated, it would be priced accordingly, yet last time I checked there is a huge price difference between a Wingmaster and an Express.

I disagree on MECHANICAL QUALITY difference.
I do agree on Quality of bluing and stocks.

My thinking is that comparing a Wingmaster and an Express is like comparing a Model 29 and a Model 28.
The outside finish is the difference. High polish bluing costs MONEY!

Bekeart

What he said..........

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Other than the finish, they are the same guns. Do you think that Remington has two different manufacturing lines for the internals? I seriously doubt it. As with all big manufacturers they look for ways to trim costs in the name of a bigger profit margin.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Actually, they do have two different lines from last I heard. And the finish, both finish from polishing parts to remove chatter marks and such, to the finish applied to the receiver and barrel are different.

Take a new Wingmaster out of the box and take a new Express out of the box... The Wingmaster is smoother right out of the box. I never said that they weren't the same design, but one is finished much nicer than the other... just like Ford vs. Lincoln. Ever sit in a Ford Expedition and then sat in a Lincoln Navigator? Same truck, but one is nicer than the other, more refined. Higher quality leather, carpet, etc.

Agree with above concerning exterior finish and wood. Was not condemning the functioning of the Express 870 but the absence of walnut stock and especially the high polish bluing. I realize these are expensive features in this day and age but I would prefer to look for a good used example.

"The 870 express is a better gun than the old Ringmasters period"

I really do wish I could be so wrong with so much surety.

I have 2 870's in My Safe a 1974 12ga 30" Full Choke Gun My Dad Bought new for Me when I was 15 and My Wife's 12ga Magnum She Bought New in 1983 Both have been Trouble Free.

Not all 870's are created equal:

http://m.publicsurplus.com/sms/docvi...&docid=3347012

This site details the differences in the Police model & Express.

I currently have two 870s- a 1970 Wingmaster and a 2005 Express Magnum. I recently sold a 1987 Express.

The Wingmaster, albeit old and VERY used when I got it a few weeks ago, still feels better than the 2005 Express.

The 1987 Express, though well used, felt much tighter and well made than the 2005. The 1987 had a metal trigger guard, where the 2005 has a plastic one. The 1987 had better wood than the 2005.

The 2005 isn't a bad shotgun, but the older ones (even the Express) just feel better. The 2005 feels sloppy.

Would agree that they have two lines for the assembly of the WingMaster and the WingMaster Express. But not for the manufacture of the internal parts. Just like the difference between the Model 27 and Model 28 S&W. Same gun different finish is all.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Not quite... more refinement and polish going on in the Wingmaster. No machine chatter marks like found on the Express. They may start as the same part but the Wingmaster gets extra attention... thus the smoother action and the higher price.

I'm not saying the Express is a bad gun, but the thought that it is just as good as or even better as stated in this thread is wrong.

I've found that the racking of the bolt to be more harder than my wingmasters. That and the triggers on my wingmasters is very nice. The express model is very gritty. Think I paid about $210 for the express years ago. I confess I didn't want to mess up my wingmasters going after squirrels and other small game. Frank

Can we all agree they are better than mosberg?

Interesting discussion about 870's but it seems like comparing apples to apples. My wingmaster is a beautiful gun.

Threads like this where there is some difference of opinion
always seem to pull in one poster with this kind of basically
meaningless comment.
Ok. Now when I ask you to back up your statement with some
genuine factual data let me guess what will happen. You will
vanish like others of your ilk.

If they are truly apples to apples, I'll trade you an Express for your Wingmaster!

Some, not all, but some of those differences between the Express and the Police also apply to the Express vs. Wingmaster.

Noticed a lot of rifles and shotguns are produced with matte finishes over the traditional high polish bluing these days. As stated earlier I know it is more cost effective but wonder how many steps are required for the high polish bluing. Ain't no spring chicken myself and recall when walnut and glossy bluing were the norm unlike today. Guess something had to be done to keep guns affordable as well as profitable for manufacturers.

Lots of people like the Matt black look too. Tactical, zombie, hunting being so popular these days.

Lol! No! I won't trade a grannysmith for a Red delicious either. I said they were apples, not that they were all the same.

I'd love to have one of the police ones though,