I've got a line on a mid-'70s 6" blue Python, supposedly almost NIB. I won't give the asked price, but it is well below what I'm seeing on GB or Armslist. What should I look for and what should I avoid? I've read that the timing can get off on these guns if shot a lot, but this one won't be shot heavily. I've always loved the looks of the Python, and would like a Colt .357 to go with my S&W .357.

For the asked price, I'd expect to see worn bluing (holster wear), but I won't accept obvious abuse or poor care. I know I can go to Colt's site and plug in the serial number to get an age, but is there any place I can get a list of SN's to take with me to match the gun's SN to a date?

Proofhouse.com will take you up to '78

You already said it, check the timing. Then if it's a good price, buy it and let us see pics of it. Larry

Search posts by dfariswheel, if I have that right, and see the timing explained.

Colt has a s/n lookup on their web site. Good way to get the date from your smartphone.

As stated above timing, and be sure to check for 'push off'. Colt still does repair work at a fair price. Mine went back last year due to a hammer push off problem......75.00 plus shipping.
Good luck on the deal, a Python was a revolver I'd wanted for forty years.

Before you go, have the seller send you a photo of the gun with the current day's newspaper, or something else indicating it is in their possession. Plenty of online scams using real photos for fake sales, and I would be concerned if the price is far below current market.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

If it's to good to be true.....

Unless it has been subjected to excessive use, there shouldn't be any timing problems. Colts are somewhat more rugged than a lot of the anti-Colt propaganda would have you believe. There is a fairly extensive protocol that Colt fans go through to assess any existing timing problems, but it's a little lengthy to go into here.

My list of Python SNs to 1985:

Year: Serial Numbers: Production:
1955 1 - 299 299
1956 300 - 1649 1,350
1957 1650 - 5549 3,900
1958 5550 - 7049 1,500
1959 7050 - 9099 2,050
1960 9100 - 13099 4,000
1961 13100 - 18799 5,700
1962 18800 - 24799 6,000
1963 24800 - 30799 6,000
1964 30800 - 41399 10,600
1965 41400 - 50499 9,100
1966 50500 - 60999 10,500
1967 61000 - 73799 12,800
1968 73800 - 89999 15,200
1969 * 90000 - 99999 10,000
*Toward the end of 1969 the letter "E" was added as a prefix to the serial number. In 1975 the letter "E" was moved to the end of the number, becoming a suffix. In 1978 other letters were used.

1969 E1001 - E6300 5,300
1970 E6301 - E21200 14,900
1971 E21201 - E38000 16,800
1972 E38001 - E53500 15,500
1973 E53501 - E61000 7,500
1974 E61001 - E83700 22,700
1975 E83701 - E99999 16,199
1975 01001E - 15000E 14,000
1976 15001E - 48300E 33,300
1977 48301E - 86200E 37,900
1978 86201E - 99999E 13,799
1978 01001N - ? ?
1978 V01001 - V36736 35,736
1979 V36737 - V88373 51,636
1980 V88374 - V99999 11,625
1980 AL01001 - AL9999 8,999
1980 LA0101 - LA9999 9,899
1980 VA1001 - VA9256 8,256
1980 K01001 - K16265 15,265
1981 K16266 - K75747 59,481
1982 K75748 - K99999 24,251
1983 T01001 - T27539 26,539
1984 T27540 - T34452 16,912
1985 T34453 - ? ?

I would say look for signs of bubba polish and reblue job but most Pythons look like they were bubba polished and reblued they day they were new.

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Bill Bates

I'd like to own a Python but finances prohibit that. My Cobra, purchased new in '68 was carried as my off-duty, shot annually for qualification and no timing or other problems to date.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

First Gb prices really tell you nothing about true values.. Its is a place to start but it is not the end game. Also, one man's nib is another very used gun. The most important thing to remember about Pythons some are very common others less so. You want condition complete perfect and or less common... I would avoid anything 70's and over because Colt just made too many of them unless the price is amazing and go shoot it. Look at Dwalt post thousands of them in the 70s and 80s with exception of certain models like 38 target as an example..If you can get a good one for a shooter or in this case an absolute complete new in box like straight out of the factory OK.. Anything else is a risk imo.. Don't know the number you are working with but you are much better off looking at 60's gun without a box for value and quality of workmanship and perhaps a better investment long term... And btw fake boxes and fake case candy is more common than you want to know....

"Colt Python...what to look for..."

Smith & Wesson model 27.

Well if it's a deal, I don't guess "sticker shock" applies...

Search for the thread on Python target grips by dfariswheel over on the Colt forum and review it to be sure the gun in question has genuine Python grips that are correct for the production date, or if not be sure the price is adjusted accordingly.

True - the early Colt wooden target grips (up to about 1961, called Gen 1 Targets) are worth a great deal if in good condition. For a Python (except for Python snubbies), they will have gold Colt medallions, not silver. Later target grips (Gen 2 and Gen 3), not so much value, but in any event the grips should be period-correct to the gun. Unless it's for a REALLY good price, correct grips can make or break the deal.

Thanks for all the good info. What, exactly, is "push off"? I've never owned a Colt revolver before, or is it something that also affects S&W's?

Also, why avoid a 70's model? I figure it's because of the numbers made that they aren't as "collectible" as other years? I'm looking at a revolver I can probably get for just under $2K if he will deal at all, and although I haven't seen it yet, he has a good reputation, so I don't think it's a scam. I think it's going to come down to the real quality of the gun, and as long as it's as nice as the M19 I got a couple of months ago (elsewhere), I'll take it. This won't be a safe queen, it's going to get used.

One more question: do the Pythons have any issues with what you put through them (such as the issue with 125 grain Magnum loads in a model 19 cracking the forcing cone).

One other thing, always remove the grips and make sure the frame was not cut, there were some grips that's required cutting the bottom corner frame to get them on back in the day. Every few months one of those guns seems to show up on gunbroker or the colt site.

Also check the barrel to frame as some hybrids were put together with a python barrel on a trooper frame. But those are usually pretty obvious to see. Esp since the earlier trooper frames had the firing pin on the hammer and pythons have the firing pin in the frame.

Push off is when you can push the hammer off the cocking notch. To check, with the revolver in the cocked position, you push the hammer with your thumb to see if it moves from the cocked position to the hammer-down, fire position. Do not do with with a great deal of force, just enough to test it to see if the hammer holds. And yes, Smiths are also susceptible to this issue...

As for 70s era Pythons, check the sold prices in Gunbroker and you'll see them going for very high prices, as well. I've heard the same old thing about 70s not being as valuable, but I don't necessarily agree. Now, of course, early year Pythons are generally worth quite a bit more than later model ones, but good condition later model Pythons still fetch a pretty penny. Funny, stainless ones really go for a lot of money, and they didn't hit the market until late (90s...?). It really comes down to condition, and yes, also scarcity (including barrel length).

FWIW, I've got 3 Pythons, two from the early 60s and one from 1978. The 1978 model has the sweetest action and finish of any revolver that I own (including 3 model 27s that I own...). Like any gun, you need to inspect it to ensure there are no function and finish concerns.

And no, I'm not aware of issue involving what you can and cannot put through a Python. IME, they are a pretty hearty revolver. You do hear how Colts can get out of time, due to the design of their action. But, I've got dozens of Colt revolvers and have not had that issue yet. Not saying it doesn't happen, I'm sure it does, but I haven't had this issue...

If it's a good price, and in good condition, buy it. Every Colt I own has increased in value. That's not necessarily true with other guns that I own. A lot of people hate on Colts, but a lot of people resent that they cost more money, and don't buy them because of that reason, then talk them down... I love my Smiths, and my Colts.

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NRA Life Member

That would seem to be an indication of sear wear, correct? I wouldn't imagine the action was sloppy enough on guns of this quality for reasons other than extreme wear. From my reading (and yes, I look for every bit of info I can get before laying out $2K for a handgun of any type), the issue with timing is a quasi-normal wear issue with the lockup design, and guns that are shot a lot (such as competitive shooters) will be expected to need the locking arm, or whatever it's called, replaced at some point.

Nice to hear this from an owner. I've shot a Python once, long ago, and was impressed by how smooth the action was. I never bought one way back when, mainly because they cost so much more than a similar S&W model. I was a Correctional Officer back in the late '70s and shot on our unit's pistol team. I used a S&W 66 in Service Revolver class (our issue guns back then were M65's). There were several guys who shot Pythons, and all other things being equal, they were hard to beat.

I look at GB and Armslist mainly to see what's out there, but I don't take the prices as gospel. I think too many of them are overpriced, and sales to the unwary who pay the high prices just seem to artificially jack up the values. Sort of like what Barrett-Jackson has done to collector cars. I go to local gun shows a lot, and I compare their prices (and willingness or not to bargain) with what I see on-line, and decide from that what I'd be willing to pay for a good example.

^^^ Hair Trigger, from what I've seen, push off would generally indicate someone 'polishing' the sear too much, more than a wear issue...

And yes, the Pythons were generally the top dog in pistol matches. Mine are very accurate. That said, I see you used to carry a Model 66, I've got a M66 that is very, very accurate. Nice gun.

I agree that some of these prices are nuts, and your analogy to the Barrett Jackson/classic cars is spot on. Sites like Gun Broker, and Barrett Jacson/Mecham auctions have just opened up product to a much larger market.

There's a bunch of people with a bunch of money in this country. Not as many in your local town or city... These National sites really get product in front of people with the dollars to spend, and prices go up, up, up.

Like any product/market, there are business cycles and fluctuations, but generally speaking things continue to increase. Despite the thousands and thousands of Pythons that were manufactured, they just don't make them any more. There are a lot more thousands of people that want to own them! I wouldn't be surprised to see Python values flatten a bit, even come down a little, but if this happens it won't be forever and values will continue to rise over the years.

Given your circumstances, I'll share a quick story... I remember passing on a very nice, used 6" stainless Python back in 1997. It was really in beautiful condition, with box, incredibly smooth action, etc. if I remember correctly, the LGS was asking around $450 at the time (might have been $400, I don't quite remember, but you get the idea...) and I just thought it was a bit too high, so I passed. Regrets, I have a few...

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NRA Life Member

Xfuzz beat me to it....

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Even older, even crankier....

Have you checked the Colt Forum or the Pistolsmith Forum??

There are a number of threads related to Colt DA action issues. You should search for Colt Officer's Model, as this is the action that the Python is based on. Timing issues are very difficult to correct! It is certainly not a case of "it just needs a new hand or bolt". These parts are subject to wear, but they need to be fitted by an expert. There are very few gunsmiths qualified to do this work. It can be expensive and often involves a long, slow turnaround.
Also on the Colt Forum is a "Check List" of inspections to perform on any Colt DA. It's worth a read!

A Question About Old Officer's Model

I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I've passed up a number of nice old Colt officer match or targets, because I found out what a problem it can be to get them fixed.
Someone posted earlier that Colt was doing Python work for reasonable prices. That's good to hear. But, they're out of production. So once the spare parts dry up, that will be that.
The action really is a wonderful and refined design. But, it needs expert service support.

I hope yours is a nice one that's fine as is.

Best regards,
Jim

Totally agree!

'Push Off'.....on the Python I returned the trigger sear was too long. It sat on the over engagement shelf above the hammer notch, not in the 'notch' as it was supposed to. Simply, the trigger had never been fitted to the revolver. Why? Who knows, it was a used firearm. Just guessing, someone tried to 'improve' the action, ruined the trigger, replaced it with a new one and called it a day as it would function fine in DA and SA as long as no pressure was applied to the hammer.

Just because the side plate screws aren't buggered doesn't mean someone hasn't had the side plate off.

I mentioned the return and fair cost of repair in a prior post on this thread. Colt estimated time of repair to be several months, I don't remember the exact number. This is probably to cut down on phone calls requesting 'how much longer'. Turn around time for the repair was one month almost to the day.

Here's some more info.....this has been in circulation amongst Colt collectors and shooters.
=============================
To check Colt timing:

BOLT RETRACTION AND "SNAP BACK".
Open the cylinder and look at the small "lug" in the bottom of the cylinder window. This is the cylinder locking bolt.
Cock the hammer, and watch as the bolt retracts into the frame and pops back out.
The bolt MUST begin to retract THE INSTANT the hammer begins to move.
There MUST be NO (ZERO) hammer movement possible before the bolt starts to retract.
The bolt should retract smoothly with no hesitation until it's fully retracted, then it MUST pop back out with a clean "snap".
There should be no hesitation, and no amount of "creeping" back out.

CYLINDER UNLOCKING.
Close the cylinder.
Use your left thumb or fore finger to again cock the hammer, closely watching the cylinder bolt as you SLOWLY cock the hammer.
As the hammer comes back, the bolt will retract away from the cylinder.
The bolt MUST retract far enough to unlock the cylinder BEFORE the cylinder begins to rotate.
If the bolt is still slightly engaged with the cylinder lock notch, the cylinder will be attempting to turn while still partially locked.
This produces a "catch" or "hard spot" in the trigger pull and will damage both the bolt and the cylinder lock notches.
This often appears as metal "pulled out" of the lock notches, with rounded off and burred notches.

BOLT DROP TIMING.
Continue to cock the hammer, LIGHTLY laying your right index finger on the cylinder just enough to prevent "free wheeling".
Watch for the bolt to drop back onto the cylinder. WHERE the bolt drops is CRITICAL.
The bolt MUST drop onto the leade or ramp in front of the actual cylinder notch.
If the bolt drops too soon, (in front of the notch ramp), it will mar the finish of the cylinder.
The bolt SHOULD drop into “about” the MIDDLE of the ramp.
If the bolt drops late, (farther toward the actual locking notch) the revolver may display "cylinder throw-by".
In this condition, during double action shooting the cylinder may rotate PAST the locking notch, and fire in an unlocked condition.
It's the nature of the Colt action, that a hesitant or jerky trigger pull by the user can induce throw-by in even a properly tuned Colt.
The Colt trigger should be pulled with a smooth, even pull, with no sudden jerks at the beginning.

CYLINDER LOCKUP.
Continue to pull the hammer back and both watch and listen for the bolt to drop into the cylinder lock notch.
The bolt MUST drop into the actual lock notch BEFORE the hammer reaches full cock.
The most common Colt mis-time situation is the hammer cocks before the bolt drops into the lock notch. (Hammer is cocked, but cylinder isn't locked).
In this condition, with the hammer fully cocked, you can push the cylinder slightly, and you will hear the "CLICK" as the bolt drops into lock.
In my experience, most Colt's leave the factory with the bolt dropping a little late into the leade, but usually wear in to correct timing.
If the bolt drops onto the cylinder early, no real problem, but there will be extra finish wear.
If the bolt drops late (closer to the lock notch) the cylinder may "throw by" or rotate TOO far in double action and this can cause off-center primer hits and firing while unlocked.

Each of these checks should be done on EACH chamber. All of these checks are better done individually. In other words, do the bolt retraction check on all six chambers, then do the bolt drop test, and so on.

A properly tuned Colt will:
Have a smoothly functioning bolt with no sticky or hesitant movement.

Unlock before the cylinder begins to turn.

The bolt will drop onto the middle of the ramp.

The bolt will drop into the cylinder lock notch before the hammer reaches full cock.

Have a smooth trigger pull, which does "stack" or get heavier as the trigger is pulled.

Nothing like getting your hopes up, just to be disappointed in the end. I went to the gun show where the guy I had talked to was going to be with the Python, made it a point to get there as soon as it opened. The gun was........tired. The bluing was in pretty good condition except for holster wear at the muzzle and some on the cylinder. I could have lived with that, but the trigger guard had some major pitting, as did the cylinder along its front edge, and the locking lugs had quite a bit of wear and scratching. The action was nice and smooth, and the timing appeared to be okay, based on what you guys said to test it for.

I didn't even pursue looking at the SN# to determine age. I couldn't even consider paying what he was asking, and I would have hesitated at half the price, even being a Python.

I did, however, pick up a Springfield 1911A1 .45 ACP, got the box and three magazines and paperwork, for $450. I see these in LGS's for about $700. He was much more willing to bargain on this one, not like they're rare. It has some minor finish wear on the frame under the slide lock and a very small scratch on top of the slide behind the front sight, but otherwise in great condition, also had two sets of grips. A .45 was another gun I wanted, and I ended up keeping most of the cash I'd brought. Another dealer had a WWII chest/shoulder holster that was in good shape, leather not cracked or broken, all the snaps intact, for $70, so I picked that up for its look, and to have something to put the pistol in.

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Early guns go for a premium, and pretty much the earlier the higher premium. BBl length is a factor also, the shorter the better. As stated else where, look out for the "new" colt boxes. A guy in Sparta Tenn is manufacturing these and selling them for hundreds on ebay/GB. Mostly I see the wood grain boxes with the gold end label area, but he is branching out.

Charlie

I'd take that $520 rig over a $2,000 or $1,800 Python any day. Kudos for keeping your options open. Well played.

Ha! But you gotta admit, it IS a good looking revolver:

This one's a mid-1970s version.

Colt Python is one of the best in 357 mag revolvers. The bluing is a light bluish gray plastics look to it. The best blue I have ever seen.