I'm new to the forum and what i really want to know is how I can go about purchasing a gun.
I'm 20 years old and Daddy recently bought a M&P Shield at a good price for my use. I know I am not old enough to carry concealed but I hear that I can purchase a gun from a private owner if you are over 18. I live in SC. Can yal tell me how to go about buying this gun from daddy and have it be registered in my name or whatever it needs to be so it is legally mine.

Check with the local authorities of your State and they should be able to explain the State's firearms statutes regarding person to person firearm sales and transfers.

lonestar57 is correct. We do not know what state you live in, so even residents of that state cannot respond to your question. You need to be sure the authorities you contact are qualified to render an accurate opinion. The local cop you run into at the the donut shop probably does not know the details of state law. You may be able to research the applicable statutes on your own. Google is your friend and may lead you to the answer. Since you don't even know if "registration" is required in your locality, you need to be clear on the law before your do anything.

Since you have access to the firearm, why not just use it and wait until you are 21 and can get a concealed carry permit?

Read the his post carefully, he states he is from SC, South Carolina

Welcome to the Forum

Under FEDERAL Law there is no such thing as Registration, TV and the Movies would have you believe differently.

There are a few states and a couple of cities that have Registration, but the list is very, very small.

Under FEDERAL Law, your Father or anyone can simply gift the firearm to you presuming that you are over 18, not a convicted felon, not adjudicated mentally deficient and both of you are residents of the same State. A sale follows the same FEDERAL Law. ZERO paperwork is required by the FEDERAL Government to complete either transaction, State and Local laws may impose restrictions above and beyond FEDERAL Law.

Now to make sure that you are in compliant with your State and Local laws. Your State's Attorney General will have these answers on his/her website in regards to the State laws. You can probably call City Hall and reach the correct office to explain any Local laws to you.

I'm not a lawyer or expert on your local or federal firearms laws, so take this for what it is worth. I believe the OP age of 20 would make it illegal for him to purchase a handgun from anyone, dealer or individual.

As an individual selling a gun I can't knowing sell to any restricted person. Age below 21 would make a person restricted concerning a handgun a purchase. When selling a handgun I would always ask for ID to make sure the person was a resident of your state of residence. I would double check age on any one on the young side too.

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Bill Bates

Buying a gun from an individual is pretty simple in SC. If both of you are legal residents of the state,and of legal age (18 in SC),and neither of you are a convicted felon,no "registration" is required. Your dad can just give you the gun,no problem. If you simply MUST have it registered to you,you and your dad can go to any FFL holder (dealer),and have the dealer do a transfer. He (the dealer) accepts the gun from your dad,enters it into his bound book and,in turn, transfers it to you by having you fill out a form 4473 which,when filled out by you,officially makes the gun YOURS. That transaction will cost you anywhere from $25-$50 depending on the dealer you choose to do the transfer. Seems like a lot of trouble to me,but it's your decision.
f.t.

New S.C. Handgun Purchasing Law Drops Minimum Age To 18 - CBS News

p.s. IMO,if you are old enough to enter the military,fight or die for your country,you're damned sure old enough to buy your OWN damned gun!

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South Carolina-God's country

FT, this will not work. Under FEDERAL Law, a FFL holder can not transfer a handgun to someone under the age of 21.

A Private Party transaction does not have the same FEDERAL restriction.

Additionally a 4473 is not registration, it is an affidavit of eligibility.

Do what Fat Tom just said.
Have your Dad buy the gun and give it to you.
Shoot away! Safely!
Congratulations for living in South Carolina, one of most gun friendly places on the planet!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

You are in a bit of a gray area IMHO because of the time line you layout in your post. Your post calls into question is your father intentionally or unintentionally committing a straw purchase.

You state he purchased the gun "for my use" and is now in what sounds like a quick turn is going to sell it to you. One might consider that a straw purchase. The ATF could choose to view your father as purchasing a gun with the intention to sell it to a prohibited person, in terms of federal law. They could also view your fathers "yes" on the 4473 stating he is the actual purchaser of the firearm to be a lie.

I am not a lawyer so take my advice and consider how much you paid for it but you do not have a straight forward transaction here. It does not mean you cannot do it but you have some exposure here IMHO.

If the timeline were different then your father could simply sell you the handgun because SC does not require a FFL to be involved in a face to face transaction and it is legal for an 18 year old to own a handgun in SC.

This would not meet the definition of a straw purchase.

If you say so... I am not saying it is I am saying that with the details as the OP has presented them it has a chance to raise the eyebrows of the ATF. If you disagree that is OK but it would be nice if you stated why instead of a drive by blanket statement.

My apologies for my brief reply, and I am not a lawyer.

But here it is, He is not a prohibited person and that is why it would not be a straw purchase. Folks buy guns then raffle them for charity, legally, I can buy a gun with the intentions of giving it away or selling it as long as the person i give it to is not a prohibited person (and I don't cross state lines to do so).

A straw purchase occurs when the actual buyer of a firearm is unable to pass the required federal background check, or does not want his or her full name associated with the purchase, and has someone else who can pass the required background check purchase the firearm for him or her.

I may be wrong, and that's okay, through these discussions we all learn.

Here's how to completely comply with federal law and not have a straw purchase.

Dad: "Happy birthday (Christmas, whatever) Son! Here's my present, a gun!"
Son: "Thanks DAD!!"

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-an...gun-unlicensed

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/re...llers/download

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Science plus Art

You are wrong. Delivering a firearm to an ineligible person is a separate Felony offense.
You can be charged with a straw purchase even if the person receiving the gun IS eligible to buy it for themselves. The offense is using their money to buy the gun for them and claiming it is for YOU.
Lying on the form to buy a gun is a felony.
It IS legal to buy it for a gift.
https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

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Science plus Art

I am with you. I like these discussions so we can learn and get a better understanding of the wacky laws imposed on us.

The way I read it a 20 year old is a prohibited person in terms of federal law. They cannot fillout a 4473 for a handgun and pass the background check. If the son had attempted to purchase the gun from a FFL he would get a "denied".

So if the father purchased the gun with the intention of "selling" it to the son because he could not purchase it himself is that not a straw purchase at the federal level even though the son can own a handgun in SC? He is transferring it to a "federally prohibited person" and he has lied on the 4473. He is not the actual buyer of the firearm.

Now it would not be a straw transfer if the father purchased the gun with the intention of giving it to his 20 year old son as a gift. In this case he is not buying for a prohibited person and he is the buyer of the gun which he intends to gift to his 20 year old son.

Intent goes a long way IMHO. That is why I said this one is in a gray area because we cannot infer intent from the OPs post. More than likely this one would pass muster but you never know and why take chances with the ATF and 10 years in a federal facility.

In Michigan, you can buy a handgun from a private individual at 18, but you can't buy one from a gun store, gun show or any other FFL dealer. Not sure about SC. Easy way to find out is to go to a police station and ask for a permit to purchase, if SC has that requirement.

This oughta clear things up, subject of course to state and local law . . .

Transfer of Firearms by Private Sellers

You have to remember that the prohibition is against "purchasing" a firearm from an FFL, not "possessing" a firearm. Possession is legal for an 18 year old.

Even legal for giving to a child under 18:

Parent purchasing firearm or ammunition as gift, less than 18 years old

Missouri recently dropped its minimum CCW age to 19, creating a quandary for FFL instructors. They can't sell pistol ammunition or a pistol to a 19 year old, but the 19 year old can legally possess both pistol and pistol ammunition, thereby being required to bring their own to class.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

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I'm willing to accept I may be wrong, but I do not concede that as yet.

Great link you posted here, but I am not sure what part of the link you are saying supports your claim?

I did not see where the OP stated he gave his Dad money for the purchase. I quote.
"Daddy recently bought a M&P Shield at a good price for my use."

At 18 he is legally able under federal law to own a hand gun.

Dad can give the gun to whomever he wants as long as they are not a prohibited person



Follow the linked 4473 application PDF and scroll down to the bottom and look at question 11A

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Tell me how you interpret that?

Not if he is using someone else's money or is buying it with the intent to transfer the gun to someone who is prohibited.

The ATF in the past has considered the source of the money to be a big component to the truth value of the answer to 11a. If I am legally allowed to purchase a gun but give you $500 to pick up a Glock for me at the local FFL when you check yes on the 4473 you are lying and are committing a straw purchase. It does not matter if I am prohibited or not.

You however are answering truthfully if you go to the local FFL buy the same Glock with your money and then give it to me. You are the actual buyer who is buying the Glock with the intention of giving it to me as a gift.

I believe that is what OKFC05 is getting at.

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I think it comes down to who pays for the original purchase. This subject can get quite gray.

It does not clear it up for me. I understand he is going to be involved in a private purchase which is legal in SC. In SC an 18 year old can posses and own a handgun. The father purchased the gun legally in the recent past and is considering selling it to his son. At this point none of this or what you linked above proves it is going to pass ATF muster again IMHO. YMMV

I have one question: At the federal level, the ATFs point of view, is someone who cannot pass the background check associated with a 4473 a prohibited person?

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I agree with everything you posted here.

I read the OP again, and I see nothing straw purchasy about what he is wanting to do.

Dad bought a gun for Junior to use, Legal. Junior now wants to purchase the gun from Dad, Legal.

I see where this topic is always going to get mixed opinions as the laws are convoluted. As you say, it come down to intent.

This is the part that is wrong:
A straw purchase does NOT require that the receiving person be prohibited; so your statement is irrelevant to whether a straw purchase was made. Fact is, in the OP post, we DO NOT KNOW the intent, or whose money was used.

Point is, as a general principle, the receiver DOES NOT have to be a prohibited person to make an illegal straw purchase.

Ask the AZ LEO who took his girlfriends money and signed the 4473 saying the gun was for him to get the LEO discount, then handed her the gun in the parking lot of the store---all right in front of an ATF agent. She was eligible to buy the gun herself, but he was convicted of an illegal straw purchase for using her money and lying on the 4473.

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Science plus Art

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There are exceptions, such as buying for a minor child.

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I though the OP made it clear when he wrote" Daddy bought a gun for me to use".

This is accurate, as is you may also under certain exceptions buy a gun for a prohibited person, such as a minor child.

The story of the AZ LEO is true and a great example of what the SCOTUS has ruled is a straw purchase.

Not if the only prohibition is age. Read the second link again. A parent can give a gun to his/her five year old, legally, in ATFE's view (again, subject to state and local laws . . . )

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

He is not a minor child of 18. He is 20. He is not giving the gun to his son he is "selling" the gun to his son.

I would try to get a written copy of the state firearms rules. Also just to be sure the info you get is up to date, try and ask,via email, to the state so that you have a written copy of the response. Once rules are known, follow them to the letter. IMHO.

And the applicable term of art is "transfer," which is inclusive of sell and give, which is perfectly legal federally, subject to state and local laws to the contrary . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Call me skeptical but the title of this thread, purchase a gun from a private owner, goes on to say it's from "daddy"
That's no private owner in my book, that's family.
A whole different kettle of fish, a family transfer vs a private owner (stranger)
That sound you hear is a chain being yanked.

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Back to back World War Champs.

Doesn't say "transfer" does it? Says receive and posses with written permission for limited purposes.

I am not saying I am right or wrong but if you want to cite the ATF then you should do so accurately. IMHO

You "receive" and "possess" from someone who "transfers" the firearm. We're never going to agree on this. You clearly believe that this proposed transaction is illegal. You are wrong, but if you believe you are right, just don't engage in such a transaction yourself.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

OP: Just to clarify. I am not in possession of the gun. The gun will be gifted to me on my 21st birthday unless there was a way that I could purchase it from Dad so that I could call it my own before then. That is all I was asking. The gun is Dad's and is in his possession.

He can give it to you today if he wants . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

But Is it legally owned by me is he gifts it to me today?

Yes, but don't believe me. Call an ATFE office near you. They field questions all the time like this.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yes,yes,yes. Look at it this way. If the gun is stolen or lost and you report it,along with the serial number,the cops will trace the serial number to your dad who will then tell them that he gave it to you! May I ask why this dogged determination to have it "in your name?" I've given numerous guns to my son and every member of his family,including my 11-year-old grandson and my 9-year-old granddaughter. They are thrilled to have them. Just try and tell either of them that those guns are NOT theirs!
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

If you are comfortable with how your dad bought it and whose money was used and his intent then according to SC law you should be good to go for him to sell it or give it to you. In the end it is up to you not some people on a random gun forum.

All I was trying to illustrate is that this stuff is not as cut and dry as people like to say it is. There is a lot of gray area and a lot of nuances surrounding intent and whose $$& bought the gun.

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A bill of sale will show who owns what.

Date
Name of Seller
Name of Buyer
Make, model, and caliber of gun being sold/bought.
Terms, terms = price and payment, sold as is, or with warranty.

Make 2 copies and both parties sign each copy.


Just to be clear there is no firearms registration by Federal law, and I doubt SC has a registration law, so you do not need proof of ownership, similar to a knife, hammer, TV, lawn mower, etc..