Would you make this trade: Winchester Model 100 for CZ-75B + $

[Double-O-Dave]

Good afternoon:

I have a chance to trade a LNIB CZ-75B in .40S&W with the factory box and documents for a used Winchester Model 100 in .243. I acquired the CZ-75B in a trade a few years ago, and don't have a lot of money invested in it. I don't think this pistol has been fired outside of the factory - I certainly haven't fired it since I've owned it. The Winchester appears to be in good to very good condition. It has been fired, and the deal is for the rifle only. No scope, sling, box, etc.

The owner was asking $695.00 for the rifle, and it has been unsold for about a month. He is proposing my CZ and $150.00 cash to him. I believe, assuming the rifle is in good condition, $100.00 + the CZ is probably a fair deal.

I don't really need another deer rifle (I have a nice Savage 99c in .308), but the CZ has been sitting in the safe doing nothing for the past couple of years.

What do you guys think? I'd love your advice and opinions.

Regards,

Dave

[RobertJ.]

First thing, I'd ask if it had been sent back in to Winchester. There was (is) a recall on the Model 100, due to an issue with the firing pin.

Second, is it a pre 64?

If it is, I'd make that trade, but I don't think I'd add more than $100.

I had a post 64 in .308. I traded into and out of it before I knew anything about the recall. It was a decent enough rifle, but I wouldn't trade away a nice CZ for one.

[Rpg]

I'd do the deal.

I admire the CZ's but they are readily available and not something I'd use (I'm happy with my Colt 1911's for centerfire semiauto pistols).

The Winchester, on the other hand, is a desireable rifle in a very desireable chambering.

I think of these situations as 'which one would I rather have?'

I'd rather have the Winchester.

[Double-O-Dave]

Originally Posted by RobertJ.

...Second, is it a pre 64?

Per the photo, it's a post '64 rifle. I have an email out to the owner asking about the recall.

Thank you, Robert J.

Regards,

Dave

UPDATE: the owner says it is a 1972 manufacture. He says he doesn't know anything about the recall.

[Stu Honea]

I would do the deal ASAP.The 100 is a great and hard to find rifle regardless of the recall status.

[model70hunter]

I'd be all over it. My first deer rifle was a pre 64 308 carbine, Red W I think. The firing pin set up is pretty complicated and if it gets gunky or rusts up it can go full auto. I killed a bunch of deer with it. I traded it for a Win M 70 in 270. I later found out about the recall.

I once read you can check with Winchester to see if it is recorded as repaired.

I think one in 243 would be one awesome rifle.

And that full auto thing, I knew a hypo guy who had one with the stuck firing pin. Full auto, 308 surplus ammo with 5 and 10 shot magazines was pretty wicked.

I have been looking for an affordable carbine in 243 and 284 for a long time, I see a few in 308 and the 284 ones are pricey. Mostly I only see the longer rifle models.

Until a couple of years ago the county I hunted in MO had unlimited Doe or antlerless tags. Several times I've bumped into a herd of Does and got 2 using a bolt action before they dispersed into the woods. Now if I had your new little carbine, well.......

[smith17]

I see quite a few 100s at local shows but most are in .308 and they are generally in the $475-550 range. If I remember correctly, the basketweave stocks are all post-64. I would allow a .243 a $50-100 increase in value over a .308 in similar, 90% shape. I don't see them as often.

Ed

[Double-O-Dave]

Good afternoon:

Okay, here is where we are as of this morning: I sent the owner photos of my CZ-75B this morning, along with the Winchester factory phone number that handles the Model 100 recall. The recall is still in effect, and if you mail in your firing pin, they will mail you a new firing pin along with a check for $30.00 for a gunsmith's labor to install the new firing pin. If you provide them with a serial number, they can tell you if the recall has been performed.

The owner said the factory indicates the recall has been done, and he asks if I am interested in the trade. I am going to offer him my CZ-75B and $100.00 cash, and see if he is interested.

Thank you to all who responded with your advice.

I am much obliged and will let you know how this works out.

Regards,

Dave

[DWalt]

Just to add my 2 cents, I think it's a good trade - if you would rather have a rifle than a handgun.

[Stu Honea]

Good luck,Dave.I think you will really get a lot of enjoyment with the Winny 100.

[Double-O-Dave]

Okay, I countered with $100.00 cash and my CZ-75B, and he said he would do the deal for $125.00. He was asking $699.99 for his rifle. I valued my CZ at around $600.00, and I just confirmed on the online firearms auction completed site that they have sold at the $600.00 range. I cannot find any past sales for the Winchester 100 in .243. I told the seller my thinking on this, and politely declined his offer. I know, I could lose a sale over $25.00.

Well, I'm prepared to do so after explaining my philosophy of selling to my son. I explained to him the need to make a fair deal - one that was fair to both parties. So now, I need to show him how this really works in real life, and that sometimes, there is no deal.

Regards,

Dave

[RobertJ.]

Hey, sorry you didn't get your rifle! He could still take you up on it, though.

If not, then the bright side is that it wasn't a rifle you "needed". Just around the corner could be the rifle that just does it for you. Also, you've still got great trading stock, since that CZ isn't a pistol that you consider a need, either. Plus, only you know how much you're really into it for. All the other guy needs to know is what they're selling for right now.

Like most here, for me, buying, selling, and trading (or thinking about one of those) is just part of daily life!

[model70hunter]

Is he close by? I think I'd go see it in person, take a box of pistol ammo and one $100 dollar bill. Look it over and say this is it. Or.

If he came down from 150 to 125 he has split the difference.

It is so close I'd personally hate to lose out over a few bucks.

You can explain fair for both to your son by saying the gent did offer to meet me in the middle.

No offense to anyone who owns one but some guns like the CZ are still growing on trees so to speak, the model 100 tree is long gone.

I know you will love that 243 Win.

[mtgianni]

I think that is the smart thing to do. I would rather have a bolt anything than the winchester 100's I have handled. (3) There is a lack of accuracy with the autos and the 40 CZ 75 is a great gun. It just needs to be let out and run more.

[DWalt]

The future appreciation potential for the Winchester exceeds that of the CZ. However, that assumes you are interested in appreciation potential. If you are merely looking for a good hunting rifle, there are many other choices.

[Jessie]

Maybe you can agree on the $125 price and he throws in a box or two of ammo, which would bring it close to your original offer. Or, as mentioned, offer him the additional $100 and YOU throw in a box or two of .40s to sweeten the deal for him.

[dmar]

It comes down to what you really want. If you really want that model 100, $25, or even $50 would not make a difference...

From a deal standpoint, I do think that you made the right decision. I absolutely love Winchesters (got a bunch of them), and also think that CZs are great firearms (got a few of them). That said, the overall market for deer rifles is not exactly booming. Talk to any gun store owner and ask if he only had the choice of stocking 100 deer rifles, or 100 pistols , which would he choose to have in his store... Then ask if he only had the choice of stocking wood stocked/blued deer rifles, or composite stocked/stainless deer rifles, which would he have in the store. Most people looking for deer rifles these days are looking at relatively inexpensive composite stocked rifles. These guns today are cheap and accurate.

Now, I know a lot of folks can polk holes in this example, but the foundation of the argument is sound because that is today's market. There are a lot of people that love to collect Winchesters, I get it, and I'm one of them. But, compared to the overall market, a CZ-75 is a much hotter commodity. A seller of an old wood stocked, blued rifle, needs to find the right buyer. Especially when that rifle is not chambered in .30-06, or .308... This is even more the case considering the W100, while being a nice rifle, is not a pre 64 M70, or even just a M70... There's a reason the seller still has that gun after trying to sell it for over a month now.

If he's looking to move that M100, it's a $500 to maybe $600 gun. Even then, he still has to find the right buyer. He may well find his buyer at $699, but I hope he's not in a hurry, it's going to take him a while. I know I wouldn't pay $700 for a post 64 model 100; no interest.

This all being said, if that rifle is calling out to you, get your extra $25 and grab it. Otherwise, you made the right decision. If the seller is not in a rush, the he made the right choice, as well.

Just my thoughts/opinion.

[Arik]

I wouldn't. I get more use out of handguns than I do out of rifles....especially hunting rifles. My 3006 hasn't seen the light of day for 3 years. I especially wouldn't do it on an odd caliber. 308 or 3006. Something readily available in commercial and military

Also I think the CZ is overpriced .....and I know you found a CZ75 for $600 but that may be a local market. They arnt even that much new here. Typical used CZ range from $250 beat up - $500. Typically a nice previously owned ones are in the $450 range

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[ken158]

The Winchester is an icon - not so much with the CZ and if the Winchester is a carbine - that is a bonus. I would trade. As often said right here on this forum, pay the man and get what you want as the pain of the cost will subside over time...

[Double-O-Dave]

Good morning:

Well, this morning I received an email from the rife owner accepting my original offer. From his message, he is eager to make the deal. I talked with my son last night and asked him for his opinion, and he said he thought my offer was fair, and my reasoning was good. He said he would have passed on the deal, also.

I hope to meet with the seller in a couple of days to do the deal - photos to follow, as will a range report once the rain stops.

Thank you again to all who responded, I am very grateful for your thoughts and advice.

Regards,

Dave

[dmar]

Congrats, I think that's a fair deal. Look forward to the pics...

[model70hunter]

If you don't have any 243 ammo on hand I had good accuracy in my Rem 700 with Win 100 gr cheapest ammo.

I used to buy several different brands of ammo to test guns, usually after a 5 round group the best was used and the rest sit unused.

Now I buy one brand, if the accuracy is acceptable I don't waste time or money on others. If accuracy is not there I will buy a different brand.

I recently traded off a Rem 25-05, I changed out the scope before last deer season. I had purchased some years ago 3 brands of ammo, Hornady supreme, PPU or Privi Partizan and Rem. All in 120 grain.

When I zeroed it with the cheap PPU I found all PPU and Hornady ammo made one very small group. The Rem was at the same verticle height but 1" to the right.

I had bought the PPU from Cabellas years ago when it was on sale for 10 bucks a box. They killed deer.

I think I might clean the bore well and try a box of PPU in 243 100 gr to see what kind of accuracy you get.

Sounds exciting. Heck I think I'm almost as excited as you.

[Double-O-Dave]

Gentlemen:

For better or worse, one of the first, and best things I learned during my brief career in the Army was the concept of integrity. Frankly, the idea that "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" really resonates with me. I was lucky in acquiring the CZ-75B, financially, I'h ahead (slightly) in this deal, but the most important thing for me was showing my son how to make and negotiate a deal that is as mutually beneficial as possible. I love the "win-win" and am constantly surprised and saddened by those who prefer "lose-win" or even "lose-lose".

I'm really getting to old and crippled to go out into the field anymore, but I will do so as long as my son wants to. He'll most likely use the .243 more than I ever will, and he will no doubt inherit it once I am no longer on this side of the grass.

I really cannot tell all of you how grateful I am for your counsel and advice. All of you have helped guide me and influence my decision.

Best regards,

Dave

[Double-O-Dave]

Good morning:

Well, good news/bad news...I was finally able to meet with the Winchester owner last Saturday, and we made the trade. The gentleman was an older guy, and said he mainly just dabbled in guns now as a hobby, and I tend to believe him. The little Winchester was in beautiful condition - easily a 98% gun. I purchased a new Nikon 3x9 scope and Leupold rings, and had them mounted and bore sighted. I purchased a couple of boxes of ammo, and my son and I went to the range yesterday to sight it in.

Well, now the bad news...this is the most inaccurate rifle I've ever shot in my life! From the bench, at 100 yds., it shoots basketball sized groups. Yes, I shot from a sandbagged rest, yes - I let the barrel cool off between shots, yes - I am an experienced shooter, yes - I let someone else shoot the piece (my son, he got the same results), and yes, the scope mounts are tight, as is the action in the stock.

I think I will try glass bedding the stock - this will be my first attempt at doing so - as I cannot think of anything else to try. Anybody have any ideas at to what else I can do?

Thanks.

Dave

[model70hunter]

Sorry Dave. I owned a Model 100 Carbine in 308, lucky perhaps but it was a tack driver. Shot one Doe from prone at 400 yards and used it for a coyote gun.

I'd check the crown inside the muzzle for dings on the lands or rifling.

I'd clean the heck out of the bore. I just read multiple references to a dirty bore affecting accuracy in this gun. And keeping the piston oiled.

Most things I read when I googled it reflected positive accuracy but the gun has a history of inaccuracy, cleaning perhaps?

I also saw where ammo brand made a difference. If it were me I'd try several different brands after cleaning the bore.

I noticed most folks like the 100 grain ammo.

I had a Rem 700 in 243, it was quite the deer machine with 100 gr bullets.

I'd try cleaning, different ammo and I would also check to see if the stock is wharped and putting pressure on the bbl. I do not know how free floating this is supposed to be.

Hey Dave, keep your head up, accept this as a challenge to beat rather than it was not right day one. When it is fixed you will walk tall.

Glass bedding, I've done a ton of stocks. I read up and did my first one, 2nd and then it gets easier. If you feel a need to go this route you can PM me and we will get it figured out.

There is a how to glass bed a 100 in this link, multiple steps.

Help with Winchester 100 - The Firing Line Forums


To summarize, if it was me;

1. Clean the bore and reclean. Oil the piston.
2. check for crown rifling damage.
4. check stock to make sure it is not wharped.
5. Try different brands of ammo.
6. Find out if the bbl needs to be free floated.

Duane.

[Double-O-Dave]

Hi Duane:

Thank you for your encouragement, advice, and offers to help. Luckily, I enjoy a challenge, and a project gun is always fun. Also, I could not pass this piece on to someone else until I get the problem fixed. I still don't regret the trade, but the accuracy issue was unexpected. I emailed the previous owner and he said he has no recollection of any accuracy issues with the rifle. It is a beautiful little carbine, and once I get the accuracy issue figured out, I think it will be a fun little hunting rifle. One good thing is that I shot 2 boxes of ammo yesterday, and there were no failures to function, or fire. I am hoping it will end up being a simple fix - like free floating the barrel, etc. Luckily, I have other long guns to use until I get the accuracy issue figured out and resolved.

The bore and crown are in great condition, and the barrel is clean. This is easily a 98% gun. I will post updates as they become available.

Again, many thanks for your good ideas and offers to help.

Regards,

Dave

[model70hunter]

Best of luck with it. I googled Win Model 100, I saw some crazy high prices on the Carbine. If it isn't a shooter it will thrill a collector at a profit for you.

Dave I still buy basket case guns, I love making them right. I've bought plenty of new guns but there isn't much love in taking a mail order bride out of a box and start, huh, well shooting a way. I to like the challenge.

I know 98% isn't basket case, but the accuracy seems to be.

Good luck, Let me know how it comes out.

I sold my 1st 100 Carbine to get a model 70 Win. I got onto the small group thing and started reloading. The bolt made it easier on both counts. Some years ago an LGS owner friend took a 308 Carbine in trade, he offered it to me pretty cheap. It had the recall done. I scoped it and do not remember any accuracy issues. I never got around to hunting with it and sold it to make room in the safe.