Gordon:

Beware!! These little guys (or gals)... Are addictive, and pose a genuine threat to your wallet!!! You got a real deal on that first one. I wish you well in the future, as I can see some of the early warning signs of addiction!!! Just kidding. I wouldn't let either my .25 or my .32 go for any amount of money. They are tactile pieces of history that are just as functional today as they were a hundred years ago. Sure, the .25 is not a .357 magnum, and it doesn't start with a "4", but in my police role, I have seen a big healthy young man dropped like a sack of feed with a .25. I have also spoken with a guy who took a .44 magnum through the torso, and was back to work in a relatively short time.

Why? Shot placement. The .25 hit something important. The .44 didn't.

Do I carry a .25 EDC? No. Would I rather have one than a pointy stick? Yes. Have I ever carried one for protection? Yes.

Hang on to it. They grow on you.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Thanks, Les. That revolver belonged to my dad, and was coincidentally made in the same year he was born. He and my uncle would shoot incredibly hot loads (357 magnum in everything but name) through it, and it survived and is still in excellent mechanical shape. After he died, my mother gave it to me. Of course, it is not for sale at any price.

I do take it out and shoot it now and then, and it is indeed a great shooting revolver.

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I just found this one at my local shop while picking up a 25-5 I just acquired from a member. This one is a colt model 1903 dated to 1920. I believe it to be refinished with original big horse grips that turned brown. It will be my shooter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Moralem, you mentioned your Colt Pocket Auto has original grips that turned brown. I used to carry these on a daily basis a couple of decades ago as they were reasonably priced, wonderful shooters, very accurate and totally reliable. They also were much easier to carry in our hot, humid climate than a 1911.

I once purchased one that had one pristine "black" grip -- the right one, and the left grip -- the one that would be next to the body on a right-handed shooter -- was brown. Couldn't figure it out, wondered if it had been exposed to sunlight for a long time somehow.

Then, I carried one with pristine original grips for MANY hours on an especially hot, steamy day, inside the waistband. Perspiration, etc. turned the left grip brown in just one day!! Horrified, I tried Armor-all on it, and it restored the original black finish. I then did the same with the other one with a "brown" inside grip, and it fixed it also. Hope this helps!

I noted all the rave reviews of the Remington 51. I admit, it is elegant and sleek as can be, but is a Pederson design and IMHO overly complicated. I had 2 in mint condition and both were jam-o-matics with perfect factory mags and factory ammo. Got rid of them both. There's a reason why Remington only sold (IIRC) about 60,000 of those and Colt sold ~535,000 .32 M1903's and another ~135,000 .380 Model M's (the colt factory designation for the 1903 Hammerless Pocket Auto.)

They are incredibly well-built guns, and it's hard for me to imagine that the new "Colt" repros will be as totally reliable, smooth and accurate as the originals...

Enjoy your fine pistols! They are truly a vestige of a wonderful era in American firearms manufacture that we'll never see again.
John

John

Thanks for that info on the grips. I may try the armor all on the inside of the grip and see what happens. I suspected that they turned brown from exposure just wasn't sure how and in this case on both sides. Here is a pic of my 1908 model 1903 Type II


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I have several Colt 1903's but this is my favorite, manufactured in 1923. I also have a Remington 51 and I think the ergonomics are fantastic, but it's hard to beat the classic lines of the Colt pocket pistols.

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- Change it back -

"Sure, the .25 is not a .357 magnum, and it doesn't start with a "4", but in my police role, I have seen a big healthy young man dropped like a sack of feed with a .25."

For over 10 years, my CC pistol has been an Italian Galesi .25 auto from the early 1960s. As well made as any of the small .25s, prettier than most, and 100% reliable so long as it is loaded with CCI Blazer FMJ ammo. Not so much with other brands. That's fine with me, as FMJ bullets are the best choice for a .25 as penetration is deeper, and "expanding" .25 ACP bullets often don't. The Galesi is small, light, and concealable. I carry it in a sheath in my left front pants pocket and there is no clothing "print" at all - no more than car keys or a pocket knife. I often forget it is in my pocket. I always avoid going to areas where it is more likely to be needed (seedy bars, bad parts of town, etc.), and operate under the assumption that if I ever do need to use it, it will be up very close and I can get off several shots to critical body areas rapidly. Much better to have that .25 with me at all times than a M1911 which is not.

Well, I've posted this one elsewhere, but here is a Colt 1917 Army marked gun, in the coarse finish that was found near the end of production for the First Woeld War. According to the serial number, though, using "Proofhouse's" numbers, it would have been made in 1920, well after the end of the war. It has all of the military marks though. I'm certainly no expert on military arms, and put it forward as fitting into the "Roarin Twenties" theme. It is in almost mint condition, but with some unusual exceptions: notice that someone has thoughtfully done a rather crude "checkering" job on the otherwise nice grips, also, not showing in this photo, but the bottom of the grip frame surrounding the lanyard swivel, the metal is a patina, almost like the gun had been carried in a full flap holster, and was only exposed in that area for wear. ??? Who knows. But there is no bluing wear on the barrel or elsewhere to show that it had been kept in a holster. Bore looks like the day it came from the factory. I shoot it with both moon clipped 45 autos, and my special Auto Rim handloads.

It may be close to the date of Wyatt Burps neat snubby conversion.



Anyway, I'm not sure how I can call a cannon of this size a "Slick Shooter", but it was in the right place at the right time!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Moralem:

Thanks for sharing with us!! Yes, that looks like it has been refinished, but that will not affect its value as a shooter. These little guns fit the definition of "slick". They have nothing to snag, and they are slim and were designed by probably the greatest firearms genius ever to live. They are just as appealing today as they were 100 years ago. You have a great shooter there!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Great, Faulkner, that is an impressive 1903!!! It warms my heart to see all of these treasures from the past being preserved and used by folks so many years after they were built. As I have said earlier, this particular gun was designed by a genius, and built by master craftsmen, and are just as functional today as they were 100 years ago.

Thanks for letting us see it!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

DWalt:

A little off topic, but here is my similar rig... Too late for the Roaring Twenties, but cool nevertheless. The pocket holster was made by "Alfonso's of Hollywood", better known for crafting a lot of the Western rigs worn in the movies. The little Baby Browing fits right into it, and the whole thing disappears in my pocket.



You are right: it's better to have a .25 in the pocket than a .45 home in the safe.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Here's a couple. I'd like to pick up a nice Remington 51 in .380 one day. Please excuse the rust on the Colt .380; the person I bought it from stored it in a damp environment. A Kroil bath and some Big Frontier pads cleaned it up nicely.

Koz5614:

Nice looking guns. The Savages especially intrigue me, as I have had no experience at all with them. But one is on my wish list! Thanks for sharing with us, I would love to know what role those guys played in the Twenties!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Nice thread professor.
Some time ago I was looking at a Sig P238. I like the condition one aspect. They are $700.00. I prefer the old firearms.
I am liking these old 380 Colts though, but never had one in my hand. Is the hammer exposed if you carry condition one? A pic cocked would be appreciated.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

M1A:

Well, the sig is obviously a great firearm. And I do have modern firearms, and shoot them sometimes. But you know that I love my older guns!! Yes, the 380 version of the Colt is essentially the same as mine, which is a .32 ACP. They work the same way. I don't have the 380 version, but I can tell you that the gun has a hammer. It is not striker fired, as for example the .25 Colt, which (both appear in the first post on this thread) is striker fired. The hammer is completely enclosed, however, sort of like the hammer on the S&W Centennial revolver. It's there, but it cannot catch on your clothing or get anything jammed up in it. Colt advertisements of the era touted this as a benefit, which it is. Also, unlike with Mr Browning's other famous auto, folks aren't frightened by seeing the cocked hammer.

Here is a vintage informational sheet which explains the operation of either of these autos:



These guns aren't as light in weight as we are used to with today's plastic guns, and super alloys, they are steel, but that is a benefit in itself. By the way, Colt is making these (rather, someone is making them for Colt, I think) and they are selling for about $1200.00 if I remember correctly.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Don't think they were ment to be carried cocked

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Well, Arik, I am certainly not advocating carrying cocked, but Colt once did so. I doubt if their lawyers would let them put out this little ad today:



Edited this to include a better quality reproduction of the Advertisment for the Colt 1903. This one is from the November 1913 issue of "Cosmopolitan"!!! I wonder if they would run this ad today??? I would bet that folks back then took them at their word!! I love the little guys, but I don't know if I want to sleep with one in "condition one" under my pillow!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

That second ad shows the external thumb safety. Condition one is the best way to carry. I went back to the beginning of the thread and there it was, just what I am used to with the 1911, but w/o the external hammer.
Are they ammo finicky? JHP ok, or just ball?
I love those ads. Like the Colt 1908 too.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

M1A:

Yes, I would say that condition one on either the 32 or 380 is just the same as on a 1911... except that you cannot lower the hammer on the little guys the same way that you could on a 1911, since you can't get to it. You have to remove the mag, eject the live round, and then you can squeeze the trigger to drop the hammer on an empty chamber. I'll bet that's most folks back then just loaded it and left it that way, unless they were going to the range or wanted to clean it, ... Or had to use it!!!

To be honest, I have only fired full metal jacket ammo, and with that mine has been 100% reliable. All this writing about them, and reading about them and photos of them has me in the mood to do a little shooting soon!! If I get out to shoot, I'll be sure to post a report as a side note to this thread.

I'm trying to remember something, maybe someone can help me out here... The guy that owns Cylinder and Slide, can't think of his name right now, but has the big handlebar mustache, once made what he called a 1903 .45 auto. I think. It was like a big 1903, but was based on a 1911 frame, and had the hammer enclosed in the slide like these do, but with the same grip safety and thumb safety. Looked awkward, but I seem to remember that he theorized that Browning might have intended to make a 45 like that, but that the military wanted an external hammer.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I believe this is late 1920s production. I take it out every now and then.



And here's the link to that giant pistol that Cylinder and Slide makes. Not sure I want to pay for one, but I'd sure like to see it: Cylinder and Slide, Inc.  Pocket Model Information

Edited to add, well, an old ad:

Thanks, Guevera, for the link. .. Man, that is a beautiful Colt!!! I think that the walnut stocks came in in the 1920s. How does it shoot??? if you're like me, when you hold it in your hand, you can't help but wonder who might have used it, and what adventures it might have been involved in!!!

Thanks for sharing,

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

With the 1911 I remove mag, eject chambered cartridge, and then lower hammer. I do not as normal practice lower the hammer with a round chambered.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

Yes, I agree, I was just wanted to point out that although there is a hammer there, you can't get to it. BTW, I got interested, and just took mine apart. Even though most folks will never look at it, Colt took the trouble th color case harden the hammer!! Just like Smith and Wesson, Colt at this time in history finished the internal parts on both revolvers and automatics as though everyone would see them. Some of these internal parts are like little jewels, and of course, the more finely finished parts had less friction, which made the firearms functions better.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

That's a beauty! To enhance the story a bit, what brand, year and cc displacement dirt bike enticed that person to swap his Colt?
(I'm also a motorcycle enthusiast)
Art

My thoughts exactly. One of the reasons I adore J-frames. Not looking to anger anyone, but I sometimes wonder how many folks who claim to EDC a steel 1911 or 686 revolver really carry 24/7...

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Other side of the little howitzer next to a '51 cobra for size comparison. That gun being more appropriate for an L.A. Confidential thread. Th .45 pictured with the lanyard which is always on it now.



Cut down Police Dept. marked (on butt) Colt Police Positive...

Wyatt:

I like those Colts!!! That Cobra is sweet!! I think those make a great Mutt and Jeff combination. But that cut down Police Positive fits right into the thread of "Slick Shooters of the Roaring Twenties"!!! And the PD marking show that this one didn't just lay in grandmas dresser drawer!!! If only we knew the stories that it could tell. Thanks for sharing these real life treasure with us. This is just the sort of thing I was thinking about when I started this thread.

That idea of cutting down the barrel on the Police Positive in the .38 Colt New Police caliber must have inspired Colt to come out with the Bankers Special. This was a Police Positive with a factory 2" barrel. Here is mine, right from the end of the Roaring Twenties, and issued to the Boston Police Department. Probably made about 1930, so it would have ushered the twenties out!! I've posted this one elsewhere, but it is one of my favorites and fits into this thread nicely...

(Edit Note: 7:25 PM 6/9/2016... Did a little casual research in Geoffrey Boothroyd's "The Handgun", p. 311. He says that the Police Positive Special was the first to be offered in the factory 2" bbl, in 1926, in .38 Special caliber. A year later, in 1927, the factory renamed this model the "Detective Special". The short barreled Police Positive named the "Bankers Special" was not introduced until a year later, in 1928. All originally were offered in the square butt configuration that ours have, and in about 1933, they were all changed to a rounded off butt configuration that most of us associate with the more modern "Detective Specials" up until about 1970.)



Here's a shot of the backstrap with the BPD markings, which I understand may have been applied at the factory:



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I can attest to the addiction. I have several older models, but these are the ones most likely to have been on the street in the 20's....the second picture is my Uncle's 1903 that he left me. It wasn't born till '34, but I thought you'd enjoy it too.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Robert, that's a fine looking collection there. Those early Colts and Smiths could definitely have been out there during the "Roaring Twenties". And although you're right, the 1903 was a little late for the party, it is identical to the ones around during the twenties. That was one of the most popular smaller autos made by anyone, something like 550,000 of them made, and folks from all walks of life kept them at home, in the glove box of the car, in overcoat pockets, you name it. They were touted as being safe to carry in what we now call "condition one", (see the above advertiments from the era), and were free of external thingies that could slow down the draw.

Thanks for sharing your treasures with us!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les, and all other contributors to this post;

This is one of the "best" and most interesting to myself as a student of firearm history. The time period that most of the arms displayed was from a time and period in American firearms manufacture history where craftsmanship was common to production. When looking at your wonderful photos, I see much craftsmanship in the Colt 1903 and Savage reps. This also includes the others, like the Colt Revolvers and pocket arms displayed. You fellas have some great toys, the kind no longer seen in GS or pawnshops. The "Roaring 20's" post here is super and I'll be contributing ASAP to this superb series of posts and photos here.

David

David, the two Colt New Police snubs in my photo were a pawn shop find less than a year ago and the Colt Police Positive 32 with the stags was a gunshop find six months ago. Keep looking, the turn up from time to time.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

A 32 S&W Long from 1924. Just drop it in your pocket and you are good to go.

Stu

Pretty sure my Remington M51 .380 got to see the 20's. S/N shows a manufacture date of 1919.

Another poster noted a couple he had displayed a tendency to jam.
I've had the opposite experience - this one has fed everything I've run through it - several different JHP's ball/FMJ, etc. And is more accurate than a .380 oughta be.
Recall reading articles indicating that in the teens through the 1920's, the Remington sold for five more dollars than the Colt, and thus, sales flagged.

The design is very interesting.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

My two remaining Remington Model 51s have never malfunctioned on me while using factory ammo. They have with some of my reloads, but not often.

Stu:

Thanks for sharing with us!!! That's a great looking .32 Hand Ejector! I have one similar to that that was a gun show "save". It had been abused, used as a tack hammer or something, and with a little work, it was up and shooting as well as ever. I will probably post it here in a bit. Those are little gems, and the insides are as nicely finished as a fine watch!! Handy, and definitely "slick shooters"!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Thanks for sharing your Remington. These have long fascinated me, and I am on the lookout for one. I am encouraged to hear your very positive experiences with them. I'm sure that yours played a role back in the "Roaring Twenties"... Nice photo too.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

i read alvin karpis' memoirs some years ago and recall that he had a preference for carrying the savage .380...among other things. I guess that would be a model 1917.

Hardware:

Here's a link to a site with a photo of the guns that Karpis had with him at the time of his capture looks like one might be a Savage:

Alvin Karpis Arrest: Where Was Director Hoover?

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Factory nickel Colt New Service .45 Colt. Well, consensus here and elsewhere was that it's original. Colt had no record of it when I tried to letter it. This gun was actually made in 1932. It should have the checkered wood grips. But it looks 1920s with these grips on it.

zooming in on my ipad it appears that they are all 1911's. that one on the upper right is discolored for some reason.

but that's a great site.. thanks for the link.

when I was reading that I was able to get the address for that location and that street corner in new Orleans appears to be largely unchanged since that time.

I suppose fiction set in the roaring 20s doesn't count , but I wouldn't mind having that gold plated revolver.

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Wyatt:

You're right, that's a gorgeous New Service. And it does have that 1920s look with those older style grips. Thanks for posting it here. I only have the one 1917 version of the New Service that I posted above, but they are great revolvers, and mine is a sweet shooter. I think if I shoot it much, though, I'm going to have to put a Tyler T grip or custom grips on it, the size is just a little big for my hands.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

We "did" that Aussie show here recently, and that gold gun is a S&W Chief's Special. Not appropriate in a 1920's show. Maybe she could have used a .32 H E in gold finish and had a similar look. But the ramp front sight would still differ from the sights on that gun.

TV is often inaccurate.

Hardware:

When I posted that link earlier, I was out, and on my iPhone. I couldn't see the individual guns that well. Now that I'm home, I took another look. I think that the handgun on the far right is a 1903 or 1908, no way I know to tell the difference in a photo like that, but it is a Colt, and it doesn't have a hammer, and it's a little smaller than the rest, which I agree look like 1911s. Interesting stuff.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

John:

The show may be set in the 1920s, but that revolver is a five shot "J" frame Smith and Wesson with the full length cylinder and the larger trigger Gaurd, so that means early 1950s at the oldest, and probably a 38 Special, "Chiefs Special". The Baby Js lost the smaller trigger Gaurd in the early 50s, so it has to have been made after that.

Edit: while I was typing, Texas Star beat me to it!!! We must think alike. I assure you that I was unfamiliar with the show or any discussions about it til I just saw Texas' post!!! Great Minds!!!

I love the Acorn productions, I have all of the Hercule Poirot series, and the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series, and some of the other English Classic mysteries that they do so well. I was not familiar with this series, though, and might have to give it a try.

Thanks for the heads up.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Texas!!!

Note my edit in my post above. I had the same thought about that revolver, and while I was typing, you beat me to it!!! I had never heard of the show before, but independently came to the same conclusion that you did. Glad to see you here!! I've been having fun with this thread.

Best Regards, Your Friend, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

DWalt:

You guys with the Remington 51s and the Savages have me hankering for one of each. I'm keeping my eyes peeled. Great posts. Thanks for sharing.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les-

The show is on YouTube, if you want to give it a look. Several good Aussie series are there, inc., The Lost World.

Thanks, Texas, I'll do that. As I posted earlier, im a fan of series that are set in that period, and now that I'm enjoying my vacation, I've got time on my hands. (As you can probably tell). As soon as photobucket is back up I will post something for you. They are down right now.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Craving a colt 1903 now.. I sold one years ago that had British proof marks on it.

Also a savage ... In fact, I have a line on one and may buy it tomorrow. Also interested in the Remington which I was not familiar with... And a browning 1910 as well... Not to mention my long standing desire for a pre war colt detective special