This is my great garndfather's duck gun, a W. W. Greener 12 bore. It's damascus, of course, and the barrels are very thick at the breech. In the late 1930s I remember my father firing it with 12 gauge high brass loads; I haven't fired it with anything. I'm scratching my head about the proof marks on the barrel. The crossed pennants and the 'Not for Ball' I understand, but what does 13B 14 M mean? And the marks to the left of the leftmost crossed pennants are puzzling. That round mark is almost as deep as it is across. I have no idea what is the mark to the left of it, and to the left of that one there's an elephant! Do we have any exprts on Victorian shotguns and their markings who can explain these markings?

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The markings were used betw 1875 and 1887. So that dates the shotgun somewhat. The 'Not for Ball' marking started use in 1875.

'N' could be a bbl fitter, a filer or polisher. Could be a bbl grade marking. Not really sure.
The Elephant figure is a Greener trademark.
To the right of that is a Crown/BP,,,Birmingham Proof (Black powder)
The deep dot next up and to the right,, I don't know..

The 13B 14M stamping was a system used at the time of marking the bore dia.
It was was the measurement of the bore dia at a specific distance (10"?) from the breech end of the bbl.
The measurements were done with plug gauges. In this gun the bore would accept a 13ga plug,,but not a 14ga plug.
It means the bore dia at that point is somewhere between the dimension of 13ga and just under 14ga.
It's not at all uncommon for 12ga guns from that era to be marked 13 (tight bore),,or even 11 (oversize bore).
What did matter is that the size of the bore AT the Time of Proof was noted on the gun.
If the gun was later altered by honing out the bore, the alteration could be found by measuring the bore dia.
Alteration beyond a certain number of .000 put's the gun 'out of proof' under Brit Proof Law and the gun would be unlawful to be sold w/o first being reproofed.
Such a gun would have a second set of proof marks applied at the time of reproofing.
Even US buyers of British shotguns are real sticklers for their guns to be 'in proof'. While US made shotguns are honed and reamed out w/o a thought as there are no US proof laws.
To me, the same safety rules would seem to apply though .



WWG is back in the hands of a family member once again.
They do have the records of production and for a fee will provide info as best they can on any gun they have built going back to 1829.
Information

Nice shotgun and great see it still in your family.

Thanks, 2152hq. That's GREAT information. I didn't know about the bore diameter measurements or that the elephant was a Greener trademark. Nor could I read the 'crown BP' stamp. That ball shaped stamp is about half as deep as it is wide. Don't know what that means. Thanks much for your post.

My great grandfaher had good taste in guns. The picture is of his deer rifle, a Colt Lightning rifle in 38-40. I think it's a factory special with pistol grip stock, checkering, fancy wood, and not visible, the butt plate cap is a half dollar dating 1882. It's the first center fire rifle I shot.

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I have a local guy that about once a year drags a Greener ML
shotgun in here and tries to trade it to me, Even of course for
whatever I've got that is worth about $500. This gun is no
creame puff and has been extensively "cleaned up". I would
not want to shoot it. The only thing I can say is the locks are
in good condition mechanically. I think he got sucked in on it
and is trying to break even. Would I get hurt giving him $100
$150 for it? Greeners are nothing you see in this area, unlike
owner, I am not awed by the brand.

Thread drift
A friend has an old greener hanging in her kitchen.We all were shooting sporting clays one day and her boyfriend brought it along,but she didn't want to shoot it.I was offered it to try with some 2 1/2" shells.Im not sure if the stock had been shortened or it was made with about a 12 1/2" LOP. Three shots,three misses and Randy was howling.I was holding it an inch off of my shoulder for every shot.I bruise easily in my old age lol.
Haven't tried it since