FBI selects new pistol to go with its 9mm ammo

Florida J Frame · #51 07-04-2016, 04:29 PM

Here's on of the tests on the G2

apollo99 · #52 07-04-2016, 04:58 PM

Muss Muggins do you have any pictures to back up those claims, I'm not doubting you I just want to see the 31 year old nurse.

Muss Muggins · #53 07-04-2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apollo99

Muss Muggins do you have any pictures to back up those claims, I'm not doubting you I just want to see the 31 year old nurse.

Here's both. You decide which is which . . .

grcoffman104 · #54 07-04-2016, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Here's both. You decide which is which . . .

Having been married to 3 nurses over 30 years I should not judge or offer comment.

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Dennis The B · #55 07-04-2016, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tradester

Why is the FBI switching to 9mm. I thought that they went to 40 S&W after being outgunned in the 1986 Miami shootout.

The suspect ammo, I believe was the Winchester 115gr STHP. The true performance was somewhat less than advertised.

That written, 9mm ammo has come light years since. I'm still a fan of .45 Auto, but I also carry a LWT Commander in 9mm, as well as my favorite, the Super .38.

PS - The original solution was the 10mm. S&W "down sized" the 10mm to the .40 S&W. There were too many complaints from agents about recoil, gun fit, etc.

Brasky · #56 07-04-2016, 06:11 PM

Bout time! Glock 20 without finger grooves would be awesome

Texas Star · #57 07-04-2016, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grcoffman104

Having been married to 3 nurses over 30 years I should not judge or offer comment.

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I hope they were easier to get along with than Linda, the nurse wife of Danny on, Blue Bloods. That woman bugs me!

I was in the hospital last year for pneumonia. There were a number of nurses, but only one hot one and she was also the nicest and most nurturing. Yes, I have photos, but no permission to post them. Most nurses I've known were pretty abrasive. Maybe Glock found a good one, who really nurtures him.

A caring nurse at his age is probably a good thing for old Glock. Look at Hugh Hefner: He married a woman still not 30 (he's 90) and he got a deejay-singer. But they seem to get along great, and he even bought a five million dollar house for her and her mom to live in after he dies. And they love the same dog. A couple should have some things in common.
These two both majored in psychology and they like that weird dog. I think that, for him, this third wife is the best yet, in several ways.

I don't know Gaston Glock, his ex-wife, or the new nurse-wife. It may not be all about getting a younger woman.

But Glock's marriage issues probably don't affect his low bids on police and military contracts. How can he do that?

And I do feel that a Glock has a higher potential for AD's than most other guns. Most AD's that I've read about in recent years have involved Glocks. I prefer a visible hammer and a conventional DA/SA trigger system.

Donn · #58 07-04-2016, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naphtali

Why is Mr. Glock a problem?

1) Leaving his wife and family to twist in the wind while he took up with his "nurse." And, 2) He's on record more than once saying he believes his pistols should only be available to police and the military. Meanwhile, he's making money by the truckload selling to people like us. Well, like others, not me.

Mainsail · #59 07-04-2016, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik

Not all FBI agents are gun people. Not all military people are gun people. So now you are partnered with a guy who thinks a 38 Derringer is good because it fits his hand and it goes bang. You want to go into a dangerous situation with him? Or maybe he likes some obscure weird gun with anemic ammo. Would you be ok with a partner that carries a Nagant revolver in 7.62x38? Poor sight, poor ammo, 15# trigger pull and 5 min to reload. But it balances well.

If it's your life on the line learn to use your gear. Practice. Practice practice then practice more and more. I bet if you practiced more with your Glock you'd be as good as your friend. Most people don't practice enough

The FBI didn't force you to join. You joined so you get used to what you're given.

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Are you for real?

Does everything in your life need to be one extreme or the other?

How about glock and Sig, or glock and Smith, or glock and springfield, or glock, sig, and springfield? I have to ask, have you been drinking tonight?

ispcapt · #60 07-04-2016, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis The B

PS - The original solution was the 10mm. S&W "down sized" the 10mm to the .40 S&W. There were too many complaints from agents about recoil, gun fit, etc.

Actually - no. That's an internet rumor perpetuated by those who don't know the facts. The fact is the 10 mm full power load was not issued by the FBI but for their subguns. The duty gun, 1076, loading always was the 10 mm Lite loading. That loading was selected a year before the bid even went out to select a duty gun. When the FBI was doing their testing they set their desired standards. The 10mm Lite loading met those standards. There was no need for the full power 10mm loading as it far exceeded the max penetration level they had set as standard. It had nothing at all to do with 'recoil' and SAs not being able to handle it. Pure bunk.

cowboy4evr · #61 07-05-2016, 01:53 AM

FYI : I will pass on what a border patrol agent of 11 yrs in service at that time told me several yrs ago .
They had glocks for " ONE " yr , only, then dumped them . Why ? well it seems that when you were in an extended firing session the mags ( made of plastic , or something like it ) literally " welded " themselves to the inside of the heated gun . He told me that they used screwdrivers and pocket knives trying to remove the mag's . They completely tore the mags to bit and pieces and still couldn't get them removed . They contacted glock and got " nowhere " so they dumped the glocks and went to HK's . Problem solved . An expensive fix to a cheap problem was his final comment .

Arik · #62 07-05-2016, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainsail

Are you for real?

Does everything in your life need to be one extreme or the other?

How about glock and Sig, or glock and Smith, or glock and springfield, or glock, sig, and springfield? I have to ask, have you been drinking tonight?

Wasn't drinking and yea for real. You didn't say Glock or Sig or Springfield. You said "what best suits you". Have you missed the tread here about what cops carried? And I guarantee you that given the chance people will pick based on price or comfort level over any duty sized gun

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Arik · #63 07-05-2016, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy4evr

FYI : I will pass on what a border patrol agent of 11 yrs in service at that time told me several yrs ago .
They had glocks for " ONE " yr , only, then dumped them . Why ? well it seems that when you were in an extended firing session the mags ( made of plastic , or something like it ) literally " welded " themselves to the inside of the heated gun . He told me that they used screwdrivers and pocket knives trying to remove the mag's . They completely tore the mags to bit and pieces and still couldn't get them removed . They contacted glock and got " nowhere " so they dumped the glocks and went to HK's . Problem solved . An expensive fix to a cheap problem was his final comment .

Another guy with a lot of BS. Same Glock mags go into their full auto handguns without melting. And the mags are metal with plastic over them

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smith46wesson · #64 07-05-2016, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy4evr

FYI : I will pass on what a border patrol agent of 11 yrs in service at that time told me several yrs ago .
They had glocks for " ONE " yr , only, then dumped them . Why ? well it seems that when you were in an extended firing session the mags ( made of plastic , or something like it ) literally " welded " themselves to the inside of the heated gun . He told me that they used screwdrivers and pocket knives trying to remove the mag's . They completely tore the mags to bit and pieces and still couldn't get them removed . They contacted glock and got " nowhere " so they dumped the glocks and went to HK's . Problem solved . An expensive fix to a cheap problem was his final comment .

I'd find this information highly suspect. James Yeager has a video on YouTube that shows him firing 1,000 rounds through his Glock 19 in less than 15 minutes. The guide rod melted and fell out, but the gun continued to function. There was no issue with the magazines melting. No one is going to fire that amount of ammo in that time frame for anything other than to test the weapon's durability.

Mainsail · #65 07-05-2016, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik

Wasn't drinking and yea for real. You didn't say Glock or Sig or Springfield. You said "what best suits you". Have you missed the tread here about what cops carried? And I guarantee you that given the chance people will pick based on price or comfort level over any duty sized gun

So even though not a single police agency anywhere in the world allows officers to carry *any* firearm of their choosing, you made the jump there?

The opinion I offered was based on agencies with policies that allow their officers to choose from a list of acceptable handguns, instead of having only one gun chosen for them. I didn't think the folks in this forum needed to be hand-fed every minutia of detail.

Absalom · #66 07-05-2016, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik

Another guy with a lot of BS. Same Glock mags go into their full auto handguns without melting. And the mags are metal with plastic over them.
.....

Indeed.

When a new design is introduced, like the Glock was in the early 1990s, controversial discussions are normal and to be expected.

But you'd think that 25 years later, when the Glock has become the by far most widely used police handgun in this country and the world, we could have discussion based on the plentiful data and get past the horror stories told by some guy who supposedly knows someone. That's getting old.

Arik · #67 07-05-2016, 10:21 AM

After some quick Googling....the USBP authorized Glocks, Sigs, Colt Python and S&W 66/19 until 1996 when they switched to Beretta 96. In 2006 they switched to HK P2000 40s&w

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grcoffman104 · #68 07-05-2016, 10:51 AM

I will toss out several things here..
1. Silvertip 9mm did great in the FBI miami shootout. It was downplayed as the lack of tactics was covered up by blaming the ammo and calbers.
2. FBI issues a glock and a laptop. Ones career tends to be lead by the use of the laptop.
3. I was a police firearms instructer/armorer for five agencies over 40 years. Most officers removed their firearms from holster, going in to book offender, at range, and hopefully once a year to clean.
Given that...Glocks were more forgiving in the hands of the troops than third gen autos.
4. Retirement is fantastic, but I have to pay for my own bullets now

FBI selects new pistol to go with its 9mm ammo

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Absalom · #69 07-05-2016, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik

After some quick Googling....the USBP authorized Glocks, Sigs, Colt Python and S&W 66/19 until 1996 when they switched to Beretta 96. In 2006 they switched to HK P2000 40s&w

And pertaining to that magazine story, considering that new FBI agents at the academy, as Sigp220.45 explained above, have been firing 1000 rounds a week for 20 years now from their Glocks, you'd really expect them to have noticed if their mags were melting into their guns ..

grcoffman104 · #70 07-05-2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absalom

And pertaining to that magazine story, considering that new FBI agents at the academy, as Sigp220.45 explained above, have been firing 1000 rounds a week for 20 years now from their Glocks, you'd really expect them to have noticed if their mags were melting into their guns ..

Was told in Glock armorer school of a motel jock laying scooter down in chase/shootout with robbery suspect.
Friction from slide fused mag to frame. Officer used knife to pry mag out, reloaded and reengaged. Dept armorer called Georgia, new gun sent, out of warranty be damned.
Was officer owned gun. Only melting Glock story I had confirmed.

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ispcapt · #71 07-05-2016, 11:40 AM

Given the temperatures it takes to melt that type of 'plastic', which we know is higher than boiling water at 212*, I'm impressed they could hold onto a gun that long while shooting enough to melt anything. They must be some really tough hombres. I'm impressed.
But it makes a good story - as long as one doesn't try to critically analyze facts.

Arik · #72 07-05-2016, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ispcapt

Given the temperatures it takes to melt that type of 'plastic', which we know is higher than boiling water at 212*, I'm impressed they could hold onto a gun that long while shooting enough to melt anything. They must be some really tough hombres. I'm impressed.
But it makes a good story - as long as one doesn't try to critically analyze facts.

Or the fact that the said officer has been there for 11 years (2005) and the organization has been using Beretta from 1995/96 to 2006. For him to be an 11 year veteran this story had to have been said in 2004/05

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BUFF · #73 07-05-2016, 05:17 PM

When I was assigned to the robbery/homicide squad, I and my partner were the designated bank robbery guys. We worked with FBI agents a lot, as robbing a bank or a credit union is a federal as well as state crime. Two of their bank robbery/violent crimes guys were on the local FBI SWAT team and were (and are) enthusiastic shooters. They were both issued jazzed-up Springfield Armory, Inc. ( I think) 1911's in place of their issue or personal guns.

One retired and then built a 1911 like his agency gun. I imagine the second agent will cry when they finally have all the SWAT guys turn in their 1911's. Nobody cries over losing their Glock.

Glocks were a very popular choice in my agency, and I rarely saw one bobble on the range and not be a user error. We did, however, have a fair number of AD's with them, many when the folks were taking them down for cleaning after a qualification, without removing the round in the chamber. Fortunately, nobody hit.

I bought my first Glock, a Model 17, in 1989, the first one I saw in person. While not my favorite pistol by a long shot, it has been stone cold reliable. It didn't like early aluminum cased Blazer but shot later Blazer just fine. A factory rep lent our range staff a select fire Model 18 for "evaluation" and I played with that for an afternoon, until my thumbs got sore loading the 33 round magazines. It ran like a Glock, ah, uh, a clock.

Texas Star · #74 07-05-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUFF

When I was assigned to the robbery/homicide squad, I and my partner were the designated bank robbery guys. We worked with FBI agents a lot, as robbing a bank or a credit union is a federal as well as state crime. Two of their bank robbery/violent crimes guys were on the local FBI SWAT team and were (and are) enthusiastic shooters. They were both issued jazzed-up Springfield Armory, Inc. ( I think) 1911's in place of their issue or personal guns.

One retired and then built a 1911 like his agency gun. I imagine the second agent will cry when they finally have all the SWAT guys turn in their 1911's. Nobody cries over losing their Glock.

Glocks were a very popular choice in my agency, and I rarely saw one bobble on the range and not be a user error. We did, however, have a fair number of AD's with them, many when the folks were taking them down for cleaning after a qualification, without removing the round in the chamber. Fortunately, nobody hit.

I bought my first Glock, a Model 17, in 1989, the first one I saw in person. While not my favorite pistol by a long shot, it has been stone cold reliable. It didn't like early aluminum cased Blazer but shot later Blazer just fine. A factory rep lent our range staff a select fire Model 18 for "evaluation" and I played with that for an afternoon, until my thumbs got sore loading the 33 round magazines. It ran like a Glock, ah, uh, a clock.

I think that's redundant. Doesn't Glock mean Clock in German?

No one mentioned the supposedly inadequate case support in .40 chambers in Glocks that have caused some blown cases. Don't know, but I read about it on the Net. Must be true...

jeeps · #75 07-05-2016, 06:54 PM

Everybody knows that just about all US special ops use the Glock 19,Army,Navy,Marines. It is just about the perfect combat pistol in use today. Haters need not worry real Special Op operators really like the Glock .Same for L.E. it's the perfect mousetrap to to stop guy's. Get one while you can!!!

HARDWARE · #76 07-05-2016, 07:04 PM

I recall reading a book with a description of the top delta force man in Afghanistan carrying a 19 with a 17 magazine in it.

That's a guy that could carry literally any sidearm in the world.

I appreciate the glock and own 4 of em... Including a 19 that I carry in my vehicle. But they're just a tool... Like a hammer or something. I can develop no attachment or pride of ownership in a plastic gun.

686fan · #77 07-05-2016, 07:35 PM

I have 4 Glocks (17, 21, 26, & 30S). I think the FBI made a good decision going with Glock.
Unfortunately, the FBI also has a tendency to make some very questionable decisions.

grcoffman104 · #78 07-06-2016, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 686fan

I have 4 Glocks (17, 21, 26, & 30S). I think the FBI made a good decision going with Glock.
Unfortunately, the FBI also has a tendency to make some very questionable decisions.

Roger that.

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Fastbolt · #79 07-06-2016, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

You're right. The .40s in service now will be replaced over the next five years or so through attrition. New agents will get the 9mms first. Eventually anyone who wants one will be able to get one, but since we still have .40 ammo around to burn up there will be no hurry.

We were going to have to buy guns anyway, so this makes sense. Existing leather gear will work, and the ammo cost for 9mm is cheaper. When you buy ammo by the traincar load it adds up.

This switch to 9mm was never about recoil or agents having trouble qualifying with the .40s. I was a Firearms Instructor as an additional duty during most of my 25 years with the Bureau and the "snappy" recoil I read so much about was never an issue. Its about money.

Each agent shoots about 1000 rounds per year in qualifications, and right now there about 12,000 agents. New agents in training at Quantico shoot about 1000 rounds a week for most of the 22 week course, 30-40 trainees per class with classes starting every 2 weeks. SWAT agents shoot more than that, and HRT guys go through ammo like nobody's business. The cost of new guns pales in comparison to the cost of feeding them.

Our ammo budget has been cut every year for the last decade or so, in favor of tech gizmos, training, operational travel, and salaries for the gazillion unarmed analysts we've hired to squint at computer screens. If switching to 9mm will help stay ahead of the budget axe, I'm fine with it.

Thanks for the insight regarding your experience with the bureau's Glocks. Makes perfect sense. It's always nice to hear well grounded opinions based upon practical experience, as there's far too much rumor and personal bias to be found on such things.

Enjoy your retirement. It's like permanent summer vacation.

Now you get to keep your hand in things to the extent you wish, if any, and only for the reasons you may wish. I accepted an invitation to remain active as a part time instructor and armorer, but that was as much to help out a couple friends who successively took over the FTU, as for anything else. (Well, having access to a LE-only range, continued training as both student and instructor ... and a free ammunition inventory ... didn't exactly hurt.

)

Best regards.

jag312 · #80 07-06-2016, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

.....Gaston dumping his wife at 82 and marrying his 31 year old nurse. . . .

Good for him! I hope I can do that when I'm 82.

Valmet · #81 07-06-2016, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy4evr

FYI : I will pass on what a border patrol agent of 11 yrs in service at that time told me several yrs ago .
They had glocks for " ONE " yr , only, then dumped them . Why ? well it seems that when you were in an extended firing session the mags ( made of plastic , or something like it ) literally " welded " themselves to the inside of the heated gun . He told me that they used screwdrivers and pocket knives trying to remove the mag's . They completely tore the mags to bit and pieces and still couldn't get them removed . They contacted glock and got " nowhere " so they dumped the glocks and went to HK's . Problem solved . An expensive fix to a cheap problem was his final comment .

Definitely sounds like this BP "veteran" was feeding you a huge pile of BS. Additionally with Glocks dealings with PDs, foreign govt's and US Gov't agencies it's highly unlikely they would simply tell the BP Agency to pound sand if they were actually experiencing those type of problems.