Hi:
This rifle was given to me to clean by a Viet Nam veteran who bought it back as a souvenir. The paper work with the rifle description states it is a Chinese Model 54 (?) caliber 7.62.
The fixed bayonet folds along the barrel.
Question: Is the proper cartridge 7.62X54R like a Russian Mosin ?

Thanks,
Jimmy

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Chichu rifle.jpg (27.2 KB, 305 views)

Dropped only once.
Yes, same round.

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7.62X54 R That's what my FIL's gun shoots,Its a clone of your friends. He is scared to shoot his, I later discovered that the CIA planted spiked ammo for these and 7.62X39.

A little c4 loaded in place of the powder, works every time.

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Jimmy,

Izzydog is right on the money 7.62x54R. Just the same as the Russian version. Lots of ammo around. I recommend using modern non corrosive ammo, no use in risking damage to that fine old warhorse. I have half a dozen of them from several different comblock countries. Those carbines kick like a mule, though!! Very accurate cartridge.

Best Regards, Les

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Shoots about like a warm 30-06

Thank you all for the information,
Jmmy

Be ready for an impressive fireball with surplus ammo,short Mosins are akin to a freakin' flashbang

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As everyone said it's 7.62x54. Also surplus ammo is absolutely fine. Worst thing that happens is inconsistency from one country to another or from one year to another

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Actually, if it is from China it is the Type 53 carbine.
I have one dated 1955, all matching, shoots great. I shoot modern and surplus in it.

I have a Polish made M-44 (same gun, but made in Poland) that was made in 1953. It's a great shooter, and the only problem I had was trying to get the front sight to move in its dovetail to adjust for windage. Mine was "as new" when I bought it, and I was very surprised the first range trip when it shot about a 2.5" group with surplus Soviet ammo at 100 yards. I was also amazed of the rifles simplicity ease at which it could be totally disassembled. I could think that there are a lot of other combat weapons that were worse then my M-44 to carry into some hazardous part of the world. Moisin-Nagant variations are all good rifles.

Arik:

I too shoot surplus ammo, but when I shoot ammo that potentially is corrosive, I have a different cleaning protocol than when shooting modern, non-corrosive ammo. I have seen bores ruined by unknowledgable folks using corrosive ammo and failing to clean them properly. The only reason that I advised using modern non-corrosive ammo was that I was unfamiliar with whether Jimmy's friend would know all of the pitfalls which might be out there.

I agree with you, and stockpiled many cases of such ammo back when it was available at very reasonable rates!! But I am careful about cleaning after shooting it.

Best Regards, Les

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Ah....well that's a whole different story! Of course cleaning is a MUST with surplus corrosive ammo! When you said "risk damaging" I was thinking you ment like physical damage ...like KAAABOOM

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I shot some corrosive ammo through the mosin's I've had-I used cleaning products meant for black powder and tried to clean as fast as I could after.

Seemed to work,maybe a few dark spots but that was it.

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A friend of mine back in about 1971 or 72 his dad brought one back with papers it was in a white zipper case . Also another brought back a Ci Com type 68 with a maybe 20 round mag that stuck out the bottom it had a regulator on it John always said here s fast and to dam fast . the gun looked like a SKS but was not . The pro vost papers said sks though

Probably a Czech vz52 7.62x45



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On a bolt action rifle like this, the easiest way I've found to neutralize the salts from the corrosive ammo is when you get home, pull the bolt, and put some very hot water in a bucket, and add some dish detergent. Put the muzzle in the bucket, and using a cleaning rod and patch, from the breech, work it in and out until you are drawing the soapy water up the barrel all the way to the breech. Dump the water, put some very hot clean water in the pail, and repeat with a clean patch. Then use a dry patch to dry the bore, and let the heat from the barrel which is hot from the water dry it out. Maybe I'm an overachiever, but I then clean with a regular bore cleaner like Hoppes and lightly oil with another patch. Takes longer to type this than to do.

If I'm out in the field, I keep windex in the jeep, and spray some down the bore and on the bolt, then dry with a patch and clean with Hoppes or other... Shooters choice is good...

The ammonia in the windex supposedly neutralizes the corrosive salts.

Anyway, these simple techniques seem to work OK for me.

Sometimes, though, another problem with surplus ammo is the gilding metal from the jackets on the bullets will build up in the bores, depending on the ammo. I had some Turkish WWII 8mm ammo that was particularly bad about this. Need to clean with product designed to remove copper fouling.

Hope that this helps.

Best Regards, Les

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If you like a carbine that kicks like a 300 magnum, and throws a ball of fire like a flamethrower, you'll love this gun!

As noted above if it's Chinese made, it's an M53 Carbine.

The M53 was the Chinese version of the Soviet M44 Carbine and overall quality is very close between the two.

I have an M44, and it's interesting but not what I'd call real accurate, and it's light enough that putting a lot of rounds through it gets your attention.

The 7.62x54R round is similar in size to the .30-06 and operates at only slightly less pressure (49,000 CUP versus 50,000 CUP). In a 24" barrel it'll launch a 150 gr bullet at 2800 fps and a 180 gr bullet at about 2700 fps.

You'll find surplus ammo in both 147-148 gr "light ball" and 174 gr "heavy ball" loads. Unlike the semi-auto PSL, etc, the 91/30 and M44 shoot the heavy ball just fine, but in the M44 you'll appreciate the slightly reduced recoil in the M44.

----

Water and ammonia are the key assets in eliminating corrosive salts.

Hot soapy water works just fine, but if you don't want to get water in the bore you can use GI Bore Cleaner (if you can still find it), or one of the water based black powder solvents.

In any of the above cases, you'll want to follow up with a good rust preventing oil, and then re-clean the bore in a day or two to get any salts that leach out of the barrel.

Just for fun, here is my Russian Model 44 carbine ( in Russian: Караб********н обр. 1944 ********. )



It was made in 1946, so a little late for "The Great Patriotic War", as my Russian friends call it.

Best Regards, Les

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Accuracy wise will depend A LOT on the condition of the barrel and the ammo used. Especially surplus ammo. While it's technically all 7.62 not all countries made identical dimensions and not all lots or even years from the same country were identical. Some may be .311, some .310 or .312 or even .308. Along with that different propellants were used as well. It's all considered general purpose ammo. With a like new barrel I can keep mine on the fist size center of a paper plate at 100 yards. Of course a smaller sized ammo will open up. Commercial ammo is much more consistent.

For cleaning I never did more than some CLP or Hopes. A few passes with a brush followed by a few with Hopes or CLP. Do that for a few min and done. Never had rust issues

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M-44's are fun range rifles with the price of ammo being so cheap. Here is my modified Russian version.

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Some of the mosins are very accurate. Some that were sniper quality went through the standard rifle batch. Nothing wrong with the 7.62x54r round too. At onetime the Russian Barnaul 203gr SP ammo was $4.95 /20rds. Plus a $99 91/30 mosin and a hunting license and you put meat on the table.

The Finnish mosins are very very accurate too. The Finns took the captured Russian mosins and reworked them till they shot 1" MOA. Then and then only they were put into service. Read about the rifles of the white death were 4,000 Russians attacked 32 Finns and the Russians retreated with 3,600 still alive and 5 Finns were left Alive. Mosin history. The winter war of 39 the forgotten war. When hitler seen the feisty Finns battle the Russians he thought Russia would be a punch over. He was wrong.

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If you shoot corrosive ammo it is insanely easy to clean. Remove bolt, pour a small amount of water from the receiver end down the barrel and let it run out the muzzle (don't let it run the other way as it will get on the stock and ruin the finish). Then run a rag or two down the barrel to dry it out. Then clean as normal. The water neutralizes the corrosive salts

Bill:

I have a bunch of Mosins, and I couldn't agree with you more on the Finn version. Here is mine, unfired when I acquired it, and with a brand new barrel made by the Finns, and completely reworked:



Here are some notes that I made when I acquired this beautiful (well, that is sort of a subjective adjective when describing a Mosin) firearm:

"Notes: The Mosin-Nagant was developed by Capt. Sergi Ivanovich Moisin of the Russian Army with assistance from Leon Nagant, a Belgian arms designer. The rifle was adopted by Russia in 1891, and was the country’s first small bore, smokeless-powder military rifle.[1] The cartridge was developed in the 1890’s, and is still in use in Russian weapons today. The reason is that it is still a powerful, extremely effective cartridge. The Finns not only used Mosins captured in combat, but began to manufacture their own. This example was made in 1970, one of the last to be turned out. An ‘SA’ in a rectangle is the Finnish proof mark. This stands for Suomen Armeija, or ‘Finnish Army’[2]. This rifle appears to be in new condition, and was probably unfired before I acquired it.

[1] Bruce N. Canfield “Ugly Duckling: Moisin-Nagant in U.S. Service” American Rifleman, Volume 156, No. 7, July 2008 p.52

[2] Terence W. Lapin, The Mosin-Nagant Rifle, 3rd ed. (Tustin: North Cape Publications, 2003), p.120"

I have been thinking of starting a thread devoted to the ComBlock firearms, and derivatives, such as this. The Finns captured huge quantities of Soviet matériel, and re-manufactured the basic components into really nice stuff. This rifle has the basic configuration and robustness of the original Mosin, but has been refined and tweaked until it is one of the great rifles of the twentieth century. Capable of great accuracy with the right ammunition.

Best Regards, Les

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I had a lot of Mosins at one time. They were fun to collect. Some people see junk, I saw history. Some were like those old suitcases with stickers of the places it has been. Only on Mosins you have to know what to look for. Some of the most interesting ones had the worst barrels. Like a 1901 with [SA] stamps, "W" wood mark, crown in the center under the date. In other words. ...it was built in Russia in 1901, went to ww1 where it was captured by the Austrians and converted to 8x56 (the W mark). Later it made its way to Serbia (the crown stamp) and eventually to Bulgaria and who know where it was when it came to the US!

8 ended up eventually selling most of them. Now I have a Fin just like Les, another M91 one with a pristine Fin barrel and a Russian M44....well used but shoots great.



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After field stripping and cleaning this weapon, I wish that I had purchased a Russian Mosin back when they were "dirt cheap".
I was impressed by the workmanship.

The Finns took the Russian rifles and rebuilt them to their standards of accuracy. M24, m27, m28,m28-30 and the last of the series was the M39. Lapua makes bullets in different diameters for these rifles as well as their 7.62x53r cases. Then there is the M28-76 which is basically the moisin model 70 in 7.62x53r. There was another model the number of which I cannot remember where the only thing touching wood is the bedding block somewhat similar to some of the old style bench rest rifles. I've a 1935 M27 that I traded for about 30 years ago. Only thing that rifle has seen through the barrel is cast bullets. When my eyes were better 2" groups were easy to get. Now about 3-4" with cataracts.
The other moisin I have is a model 44 made in 1944 and that one loves yugoslavian heavy ball. Loud and lotsa muzzle flash. Definitely gets noticed at the range. Frank

Not to get off track my friends dad was 20 yr Navy and brought his boy back the Moisin and my friend brought back the real type 68 that looked like a sks with a short mag that was fixed for semi only , I know what it was . he died some time back and it was sold at a sale as a SKS but was not .