Anybody happen to know what the major and minor barrel diameters (groove and land) of an original Remington New Army .44 revolver were/are??

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Go to the bottom of the page @ Technical Info and they give the nominal bore and groove for the NM Army.
It's in regard to the later factory cartridge conversions to 46RF.

It's 'Wiki I Know Everything',,so I make no claim to correct numbers# !
I think it's what you're looking for, but I get the Rem'ton models mixed up.
They factory converted to '44 Remington' also. A search of that old cartridge may lead to some data if
you can wade through all the Magnum links.
.46 rimfire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look up capandball YouTube channel. Iirc he does a long video measuring one and comparing, contrasting with a repro

Thanks for the link!! It answers several questions I have about a Remington New Army conversion I just picked up. It's not a factory conversion but was probably done "way back when" as it appears to be converted to .44 S&W American.
(At least that's the premise I'm working on right now.)

Would you happen to know if the 44 American was loaded with a hollow base bullet? I know it was heel seated, but if it was also hollow base my search may be over......

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

AFAIK the 44 (S&W) American was just a heeled bullet,,no hollow base.


There is an article is a past issue of Reloader magazine (I think it is, I don't think it was in Rifle magazine) on making up ammo for this,'Seems the author used cut down 41mag brass.
Maybe I remember that from another source. Tough getting older.

There was a similar article in Guns & Ammo a few years back, and yes, he used shortened .41 Mag cases. So sorry can't remember author.

The 44 S&W American uses a healed bullet bigger that current 44 caliber guns. The 44 Henery (rim fire) and the 44 S&W Russian (center fire) are interchangeable and pure lead bullets in the 200 to 246 grain will work in guns chambered for them (size them .430 or a little bigger until you can measurer a recovered bullet). 20 grains of FFFg black powder will be at the lower end of original power. Have fun!

Ivan

I'm getting real close to fabricating some rounds for this gun.......
Turns out it isn't a 44 American...(At least not if the published dimensions are correct..) Looks like I can base the case on a shortened 44 Russian, Special or Magnum. All depends on just how much trimming I need.... Major diameter of the bore is ~.457 which just happens to match the cylinder throat. I can turn about .015 off of the first band of the bullet and end up with a heel seat that should fit nicely in the shortened case........

I just realized....How do you crimp a heel seated bullet??

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Just curious; How did you determine that the "BORE" diameter is .457? That would mean you groove diameter is around .468 or bigger. And your bullet would need to be that large. Any 45 ACP bullet would just drop through the barrel. I use .454 round balls in my repro New Army and it cuts a small ring of lead when seated in the cylinder. (The inside of the cylinder is bigger that the barrel.) For an accurate barrel diameter not cylinder diameter, drop an unsized round ball of a diameter you think is a tiny bit big in the muzzle of the barrel, if it isn't way too big lightly hammer it down the barrel with the cylinder removed. When it falls out, use a micrometer or good caliper and measurer the diameter in 1/1000ths of an inch from at least 3 different directions. the largest measurement is +.001" is the diameter for a perfect fit. If it is bigger than any standard Round ball, Then you might try the soft lead Conical flat or hollow base bullet. Black powder will sometimes got a flat base bullet to "Upset" or "Obtrude" to the needed diameter, up to 6-8 one thousandths.


Ivan

By The Way: on healed seating bullets, very lightly bell the case, seat to proper OAL. The seating die will straighten the case mouth and the neck tension will hold the bullet in place. If you need "Waterproof" ammo you will need to use a sealer placed inside the case mouth (I use a Q-tip or tooth pick) just before seating the bullet. Be sure the case mouth was sized slightly smaller that the bullet heal by 4 to 8 1/1000ths inch. A roll crimp isn't necessary. The heal needs to be 1/8 to 3/16 long.

Ivan

IMHO there are two "BORE" diameters. Minor, which is the land diameter and major, which is the groove diameter. I estimated the major diameter by slugging the barrel and measuring with a micrometer. I had to "estimate' the final few thousands as the barrel is a 5 groove, but the throat measurement is easily measured with a set of ball gauges and the micrometer. If the throat and barrel are off by a one or two thousands, it's not going to make much of a difference as I don't expect to get one-hole accuracy out the gun in the first place....
Hollow based bullets could make up for some of this, but they can have their own problems. i.e. uneven expansion, more difficult to get a even cast and generally a PITA to make.
As to crimping, my experience with revolvers is that they are subject to "back out" under recoil with just a friction crimp. (Especially with heavy bullet and loads.) With single shots, no problem....
A number of years ago I had a LeMat (replica) that the cylinder throats wouldn't hold the ball well.
It turned out that the mouth of the charge hole was slightly smaller than the rest of the throat. I would get the "ring" of shaved lead when ramming and then the ball would be somewhat loose in the cylinder. I finally had to taper ream the mouth to get it working correctly.

I'm thinking of taking a look at the Lee collet crimpers or even making a version of my own design. It probably wouldn't be a roll crimp, but more of a "stab" crimp....
I will see.......

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446