|
|
 |
|
10-21-2016, 12:26 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Just West of Houston
Posts: 3,468
Likes: 787
Liked 4,674 Times in 2,062 Posts
|
|
I fail to understand how that gun could have blown apart like that without the cylinder being blown apart. Separate the frame and even the trigger guard? I would be surprised after looking at the picture that his hand was not blown apart as well. How he still has a trigger finger is beyond my understanding. I am guessing Colt did more than cut the barrel off. More like they cut the gun frame apart also. The whole gun looks like it was disassembled{destroyed} by someone.
It would make a great paper weight conversation piece anyway.
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 12:28 AM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 362
Likes: 200
Liked 418 Times in 155 Posts
|
|
Darn you Chevy and that '74 Vega!
|
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 01:29 AM
|
 |
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 1,587
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRaider
Darn you Chevy and that '74 Vega!
|
LOL!! I had one of those creatures, a 1971 Vega wagon. Traded it in at a Ford Dealership (because no Chevy, or GM dealer for that matter, would take it in for trade) and never looked back.
Aluminum engine block... no cast iron cylinder liners, GM's bright idea instead was to impregnate the aluminum cylinder walls with silicon (not silicone) to harden them against friction wearing... big fail. Scored cylinder walls, rapid wear... at 12,000 miles I was running a 50/50 mix of Castro GTX 50wt oil and STP to keep it from bellowing black smoke, and using 1qt of oil every 500 miles.
Sorry for the thread drift... but your comment rapidly brought back memories from my misspent youth.
__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222
Last edited by Gunhacker; 10-21-2016 at 01:32 AM.
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 07:30 AM
|
|
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker
LOL!! I had one of those creatures, a 1971 Vega wagon. Traded it in at a Ford Dealership (because no Chevy, or GM dealer for that matter, would take it in for trade) and never looked back.
Aluminum engine block... no cast iron cylinder liners, GM's bright idea instead was to impregnate the aluminum cylinder walls with silicon (not silicone) to harden them against friction wearing... big fail. Scored cylinder walls, rapid wear... at 12,000 miles I was running a 50/50 mix of Castro GTX 50wt oil and STP to keep it from bellowing black smoke, and using 1qt of oil every 500 miles.
Sorry for the thread drift... but your comment rapidly brought back memories from my misspent youth.
|
My ex-wife owned a Vega when we married. I hated that thing.
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 08:09 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 362
Likes: 200
Liked 418 Times in 155 Posts
|
|
Ah yes, American engineering from the 70's....the Thermo Quad carburetor, GM's 4-6-8 engine, the Ford Pinto, Oldsmobile diesel 350's.... it was an interesting time to be alive.
|
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 05:44 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 31,000
Likes: 41,665
Liked 29,250 Times in 13,830 Posts
|
|
That was a PATHETIC...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRaider
Ah yes, American engineering from the 70's....the Thermo Quad carburetor, GM's 4-6-8 engine, the Ford Pinto, Oldsmobile diesel 350's.... it was an interesting time to be alive.
|
That was a PATHETIC. No cost cutting and make it better. Just cut cost...everywhere. The Pinto was an ashamedly crude attempt to make a high mileage car. And yeah, the early Diesels were a big flop. But at the same time, somehow America kept making the 'best' cars. At least that was what I was constantly told.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Last edited by rwsmith; 10-21-2016 at 06:36 PM.
Reason: spelling
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 05:55 PM
|
 |
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AR—Town & Country
Posts: 7,491
Likes: 80,377
Liked 26,153 Times in 5,958 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRaider
Darn you Chevy and that '74 Vega!
|
My parents had one when I was a kid and when it went out of warranty and stopped running for the upteenth time my dad let me and my friends drag it to the far back pasture and shoot it for target practice.
__________________
Possum—The other white meat!
Last edited by 6518John; 10-21-2016 at 08:14 PM.
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 07:08 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,154
Likes: 10,997
Liked 10,886 Times in 3,282 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star
My ex-wife owned a Vega when we married. I hated that thing.
|
Which thing; the old lady or the Vegematic?
|
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-21-2016, 07:21 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: middle Ga.
Posts: 2,525
Likes: 211
Liked 610 Times in 301 Posts
|
|
Are there any pics after the KB and before Colt dissected the gun?
|
10-21-2016, 09:25 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,450
Likes: 37
Liked 5,435 Times in 1,762 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912
The arc of trigger guard remnants look like
some metal is missing.
Any chance this revolver was demilled/destroyed
evidence, etc?
|
I have a hard time seeing an exploded revolver there. What I see looks like what I have seen only once years ago -- a confiscated revolver that was sawn up by a police department along with a bunch of other guns, to the great and loud consternation of local gun owners who had wanted a sale of confiscated guns.
__________________
Pisgah
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-22-2016, 02:03 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 1,565
Liked 1,364 Times in 560 Posts
|
|
Jerry K. states right in his manual that alloy frame Colts were not made for continuous use, or for more than the occasional +P round. Even one round of +P+ could rupture cylinders or crack frames.
So technically, the alloy frames such as Cobras, were not made for everyday use, even with standard ammo. Most likely designed as just a back up gun to be used on rare occasions.
Just another reason to be leery of buying any of these old alloy frames if you intend to shoot it frequently, and why I passed on one for a great deal.
|
10-22-2016, 02:07 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,774
Likes: 17,025
Liked 39,804 Times in 7,848 Posts
|
|
...Jack Ruby's Cobra worked well...
__________________
A Country Boy Can Survive
|
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-22-2016, 02:15 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Just West of Houston
Posts: 3,468
Likes: 787
Liked 4,674 Times in 2,062 Posts
|
|
Vegas make good drag cars with a fire breathing 350 in them.
|
10-22-2016, 02:50 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 362
Likes: 200
Liked 418 Times in 155 Posts
|
|
Jack Ruby should've had a Vega drag car, he might've gotten away...
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-22-2016, 04:47 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,630
Likes: 241
Liked 29,144 Times in 14,091 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPac
Jerry K. states right in his manual that alloy frame Colts were not made for continuous use, or for more than the occasional +P round. Even one round of +P+ could rupture cylinders or crack frames.
So technically, the alloy frames such as Cobras, were not made for everyday use, even with standard ammo. Most likely designed as just a back up gun to be used on rare occasions.
Just another reason to be leery of buying any of these old alloy frames if you intend to shoot it frequently, and why I passed on one for a great deal.
|
Precisely the reason I own no alloy-frame revolvers (regardless of manufacturer) and never will. I might take one if someone gave it to me. But buy? NO WAY!
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-22-2016, 09:36 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,154
Likes: 10,997
Liked 10,886 Times in 3,282 Posts
|
|
Wails, sum beach, lookie maw 'sploded S&W. Mebbe awe kin gits me a new one, too...
Last edited by Warren Sear; 10-22-2016 at 09:42 PM.
|
10-22-2016, 11:49 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 522
Likes: 4
Liked 954 Times in 252 Posts
|
|
I suspect your would have had more luck with the person who sold you both he Colt and the box of ammunition. I'm not a lawyer but I suspect that's where the liability rested.
Rich
|
10-23-2016, 01:38 AM
|
 |
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sadly, Seattle WA
Posts: 10,619
Likes: 22,917
Liked 10,362 Times in 4,298 Posts
|
|
I'm sorry the OPs gun blew up......but 40 years is a long time ago. Both Colt and S&W make fine guns, and both manufacturers have produced guns that blew up. Quite honestly I don't see where there is a story here.
I'm a little shocked the thread is not locked yet......
__________________
Even older, even crankier....
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-23-2016, 11:23 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,354
Likes: 5,462
Liked 2,783 Times in 1,263 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1gunner
Are there any pics after the KB and before Colt dissected the gun?
|
OP won't be back. He just stopped in to ventilate and polish his grudge.
The pictures are garbage but it looks like the top strap may have broken near the barrel. The rest looks like saw work. We'll never know the whole story.
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-23-2016, 11:41 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,426
Likes: 1,105
Liked 5,154 Times in 1,581 Posts
|
|
Old alloy/aluminum frame revolvers make good paperweights. I would never own one or rely on one. It would be a fool's paradise to do so. I know there are some that are very collectible and valuable, but that would be the only reason to own any of them. I'm saying this without regard to the legitimacy or validity of the OP or his story.
Last edited by sodacan; 10-23-2016 at 11:53 AM.
|
10-23-2016, 01:19 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 362
Likes: 200
Liked 418 Times in 155 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1gunner
Are there any pics...?
|
Best I can do, anyway....
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-23-2016, 04:37 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 146
Likes: 51
Liked 230 Times in 77 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123
I'm very curious about the manufacturer of the "+P ammunition" used in this incident and their response.
Based on a Wikipedia article the +P was originally implemented in 1972, just 4 years prior to the date given for this Kaboom. In addition in the 38 Special what is today called +P is actually the prior pressure standard for commercial 38 special ammunition. Because in 1972 when the +P labeling was introduced it was because the manufacturers had reduced the pressure of the 38 special ammunitions they were producing to keep the Peak Pressures below the listed maximum for the caliber using new electronically based continuous pressure testing methods. Basically the pressure was reduced because the old Copper Crusher methods couldn't pick up these short peaks in pressure. Because of this reduction in pressure for the 38 special the resulting velocities were also reduced so +P was brought out to "restore" the performance that was available prior to the change in pressure testing methods.
My thinking is that this Kaboom wasn't a failure on Colt's part but a failure on the part of hte ammunition manufacturer. I also suspect that this wasn't a Double Charge, I think this was probably a Triple Charge or perhaps something even higher. In plain truth it was a case that was completely filled with a very fast burning powder which resulted in a massively over pressure charge. BTW, I am a reloader and generally avoid the "fast" powders specifically due to the risk of a massive over charge because slow powders require a much larger volume of powder to produce the same pressure as a much smaller charge of "fast" powder.
|
Would somebody please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding of + P is that it is still within SAAMI specs and any gun built to shoot is generally built to those specs. The whole problem here makes no sense to me unless he tried to clear a squib by shooting it out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
10-23-2016, 04:42 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,350
Likes: 7,540
Liked 5,590 Times in 2,562 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivoak
Would somebody please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding of + P is that it is still within SAAMI specs and any gun built to shoot is generally built to those specs. The whole problem here makes no sense to me unless he tried to clear a squib by shooting it out.
|
I'm pretty sure the consensus here is that this revolver was not damaged by ammo that was within SAAMI +P specs. If it isn't, it should be.
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-23-2016, 04:57 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 1,730
Likes: 995
Liked 1,629 Times in 801 Posts
|
|
How did the top strap blow of but the cylinder remain intact? I'd suspect the ammo was at fault. Putting +P rounds through a 38 special is going to accelerate wear, not blow up a gun.
|
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-23-2016, 09:37 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 113
Likes: 770
Liked 329 Times in 75 Posts
|
|
The only alloy frame gun that I have is a S&W Model 12 that I bought because it was priced very low. The bottom of the barrel is stamped Valley Gun La Ca..could be a range gun. I purchased this back in the late 70's and never fired it and never will...just don't trust em. Rich.
__________________
GOD BLESS THE USA
|
10-23-2016, 11:14 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sitka, Alaska
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
|
Maybe it's my 72yo eyes, but it looks to me as if the barrel's split lengthwise with a portion of the frame hanging onto the threads. 30+ years in the retail firearms business tells me there was a squib that just barely made it into the barrel, followed by either a standard or maybe even a +P.
|
10-25-2016, 10:23 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 31,000
Likes: 41,665
Liked 29,250 Times in 13,830 Posts
|
|
Exactly.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog81
How did the top strap blow of but the cylinder remain intact? I'd suspect the ammo was at fault. Putting +P rounds through a 38 special is going to accelerate wear, not blow up a gun.
|
Even alloy frames need to be able to handle proof loads that are like 1/3 over the max standard pressure for that caliber. I really don't think any of the better companies have made any guns that will blow up after 'x' number of rounds have been shot. And plus P won't blow them up, but it will beat them up faster over time. A cartridge that blows up a strong, modern gun by a reliable make is seriously over pressured.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
|
10-25-2016, 10:37 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,154
Likes: 10,997
Liked 10,886 Times in 3,282 Posts
|
|
None of this matters. The OP is long gone and does not care about the gun or how it was destroyed. He started this thread with an agenda.
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-25-2016, 10:50 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,774
Likes: 17,025
Liked 39,804 Times in 7,848 Posts
|
|
...I was skeptical of aluminum alloy...I own a 1971 Kenworth truck...the frame...rear suspension...and hubs are all aluminum alloy...as well as most of the cab...I earned my living with it for 26 years...always wondering when one of the aluminum components would fail...it's sitting out in the yard with a broken crankshaft...all the aluminum components are fine...
...people park their butts in big aluminum tubes and fly 500 plus mph through turbulence...apparently that aluminum holds up just fine 99.99% of the time...Kenworth developed their knowledge and practice with aluminum alloys during WWII...building aircraft components for the war effort...
__________________
A Country Boy Can Survive
|
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-26-2016, 07:07 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,354
Likes: 5,462
Liked 2,783 Times in 1,263 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmckenzie
Maybe it's my 72yo eyes, but it looks to me as if the barrel's split lengthwise with a portion of the frame hanging onto the threads. 30+ years in the retail firearms business tells me there was a squib that just barely made it into the barrel, followed by either a standard or maybe even a +P.
|
It looks like the barrel was sawed lengthwise. Probably someone trying to figure out why it failed. Or making certain nobody ever tried to fix it.
|
10-26-2016, 11:44 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 31,000
Likes: 41,665
Liked 29,250 Times in 13,830 Posts
|
|
I guess he already wore out....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
None of this matters. The OP is long gone and does not care about the gun or how it was destroyed. He started this thread with an agenda.
|
I guess he already wore out the Colt forums and decided to come here. I'm not worried about anything said, as long as I don't get ammo that is lethal to guns.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Last edited by rwsmith; 10-26-2016 at 11:45 AM.
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-26-2016, 06:38 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 31,000
Likes: 41,665
Liked 29,250 Times in 13,830 Posts
|
|
Some new information...
Again that infallible oracle "Wikipedia" provides this info.
1951-1957 Colt Cobra called the 'Aircrewman' for air crew had problems with cracking cylinders.
'Next Generation' started in 1972.
Also:
In the owners' manual accompanying some post-1972 Cobra revolvers, Colt recommended the use of +P ammunition for 2nd Model Cobra frames only, with the stipulation that the gun be returned to the factory for inspection every 1,000 rounds (compared with a 2,000-3,000 round interval for the 2nd Model steel-framed Detective Special).
They also say that Colt brought out the Cobra again in 1977 but was discontinued due to poor sales.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-26-2016, 07:59 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,350
Likes: 7,540
Liked 5,590 Times in 2,562 Posts
|
|
The Colt Cobra has a steel cylinder. I have an older one, serial number hinting 1966. I just checked, and the cylinder has not turned into aluminum. I have fired a few cylinders of +P through it. I'm still typing with both hands, and the cylinder and frame are still there. Of course, I use factory ammo (why is a whole nother story). +P DOES stress the frame more, but no kaboom yet. Probably never will be, because I pretty much don't use +P in the aluminum frames.
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-26-2016, 08:05 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Huntingdon Pa.
Posts: 4,533
Likes: 7,674
Liked 9,982 Times in 2,955 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAC
Why is the picture so strange looking, and where is the rest of the frame?
|
Somewhere past Jupiter.
|
10-26-2016, 08:42 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rural NW Oklahoma
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 1,156
Liked 1,980 Times in 467 Posts
|
|
At least it wasn't a smith n wesson
__________________
No gold. Only lead. Bobby
|
10-27-2016, 12:25 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 1,525
Liked 1,825 Times in 736 Posts
|
|
After reading through all the posts, I'm seeing an image of a school of Bass watching a jig bounce by and the ensuing discussion as to how it would taste.
John 
|
10-27-2016, 08:12 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: mid Missouri
Posts: 1,871
Likes: 9,407
Liked 2,560 Times in 1,010 Posts
|
|
my Every Day Carry gun (EDC)is a Colt Agent... the same gun as the Cobra, but less finely finished. Mine is parkerized... an extremely durable finish... Over 90% of the rounds I put thru her & perhaps as many as 95% are 148grain lead wad cutters over a charge of Unique that produces about 750fps. The balance of the rounds are .38 Spec Plus P duty rounds...
I've carried this pistol since 1985, first as an off duty pistol, then as primary every day gun, if serious social work is not expected... if I foresee that, I move up to a 4" model 29 S&W .44 mag, with loads about warm .44 special. I've never worried about the Colt... as stated above, it has both a steel cylinder & steel barrel.... I would not worry about any of the fine alloy framed J models that S&W produces.
There is more to the story of what happened to the pistol in the OP than what has been told. Someone has further dis-assembled it for whatever reason only they know. It was not stated who did this, or why. No mention of what brand ammo was allegedly used...a curious thing in & of itself. My guess is that the incident was caused by the ammunition..
I'm glad the person was not injured by this incident, no matter the cause. I'm sure he thanked the Almighty for that.
__________________
be safe,enjoylife,journey well
|
10-27-2016, 08:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 31,000
Likes: 41,665
Liked 29,250 Times in 13,830 Posts
|
|
Talking about it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMETRIPPER
After reading through all the posts, I'm seeing an image of a school of Bass watching a jig bounce by and the ensuing discussion as to how it would taste.
John |
Talking and biting are two different things. Besides, we've been instructed as to proper comportment about these things. 
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
|
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
