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Old 11-01-2016, 10:41 PM
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I think I will sell my 4 wheeler (I hardly ride it anymore) and buy me a SAINT. I wonder how it compares to S&W's top tier AR's?

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Old 11-01-2016, 11:02 PM
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Academy has it for $850...buy one for me and I'll compare it to my Sport II for you gladly ��.

It is a nice looking rifle and I've had excellent service from every Springfield I've ever had.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:14 PM
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I was able to handle one today at my LGS. It felt and looked good for an entry level AR. Bravo Company furniture (I believe). It was $180 more than a Sport II in the same store.

I'm normally a fan of Springfield. I have one of their 1911s and a couple XDs in the safe. All the hype and marketing for another AR?
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:15 PM
Brian in Oregon Brian in Oregon is offline
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What, exactly, makes it better than the Sport II? Especially if one does not care for the buttstock or forend on the Saint?
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian in Oregon View Post
What, exactly, makes it better than the Sport II? Especially if one does not care for the buttstock or forend on the Saint?
What makes a Colt any better than a Sport 2?
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:40 PM
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What exactly makes it in any way unique? I can't find any reason to pay more than 600 bucks for it. I'm waiting for this balloon to hold air before I get excited about how shiny it is...

I'm dissapointed, honestly. Can I be critical without being rude? I don't want to burst the OP bubble, sorry Disabled1.

I mean c'mon, this is SA! Where's the wow? Why not make it with an ultralight titanium monolithic chassis with integrated quick change mount points for accessories, or with an integrated Tpoint mount, or with a quick change barrel system, or with something more interesting than another "new" MSR in pseudo M4 pedigree? Keymod rather than Mlok? Yawn.

If you really have to have a SA MSR, go for the Scout Squad | M1A™ Rifle for Sale | Semi Automatic Firearms. My two cents.

Oh, it's 1/8 and melonited. Ok. $640.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
What makes a Colt any better than a Sport 2?
Exactly. I couldn't find any reason to buy a non-chrome barrel Colt over the M&P-15. I also don't see any reason to pay the extra money to buy a melonite Springfield over a melonite M&P-15.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:08 AM
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The Saint is a better rifle on paper than the Sport 2 is.

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
BCM grip vs A2 grip
BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
M16 BCG vs AR BCG
Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger

Probably a few things I am forgetting. Each individual will have to decide if the different features are worth the money. Personally, if it can be had for around $800, I think it makes a good alternative to the Colt LE6920. But if you don't like the BCM furniture, it probably is not the best buy available.

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Old 11-02-2016, 08:23 AM
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I think it's a lot of rifle for the money, only thing I don't like is the handguard, but I could live with it. Only thing that puts me off is the cheesy name and advertising, those videos are a total cringe-fest.

Trouble is for $899 you can get a Colt 6920 or 6720, and I think not owning a Colt yet the 6720 would be my pick above the Springfield.
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnoob View Post
I think it's a lot of rifle for the money, only thing I don't like is the handguard, but I could live with it. Only thing that puts me off is the cheesy name and advertising, those videos are a total cringe-fest.

Trouble is for $899 you can get a Colt 6920 or 6720, and I think not owning a Colt yet the 6720 would be my pick above the Springfield.
I agree about the name, advertising, and roll mark. The $899 is MSRP. It should sell for $800 or less. Not too many folks are excited about another basic AR-15.
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by arnoob View Post
Trouble is for $899 you can get a Colt 6920 or 6720, and I think not owning a Colt yet the 6720 would be my pick above the Springfield.
I just picked up a Colt 6920 for that price. The resale value will definitely be more than the Springfield simply because of the name recognition to the uninitiated. I have both a M&P15 and a M&P15A in the gun safe. I paid more for them than the Colt. Although both are excellent rifles, I doubt the resale would would be more than the Colt.

You get to a point in your collection where resale value becomes important if you need to sell something for another project.
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:45 AM
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I've been following the buildup to this thing for about a month and half. After watching some of the videos on their Defend Your Legacy website, I thought sure it was going to be some sort of CCW pistol. Maybe their own American made pistol with all the hype they were pouring into this thing. Yesterday, I eagerly booted up the computer, and went straight to their site to see what all the hubbub was about. When I finally saw that it was another AR in a market flooded with them I was extremely disappointed. Yeah, the SAINT (Is that an acronym?) is better, on paper, than the Sport II that I have. But there's nothing that the SAINT has, that would make me get rid of my Sport II for it. Had it come out when I was looking, I probably would have looked seriously at it. Personally, I'm all AR'd out. If I ever get another one, I'm going to build it. If anyone is in the market for an AR, I would recommend they look at the SAINT closely. It seems like a really nice rifle.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:35 PM
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Wouldn't be surprised that this came about from Springfield's sponsored USPSA/IPSC shooters. And if I was looking at getting a Colt, I think I would take a serious look at the Colt Competition at Cabelas, especially if I lived outside of the DPRCa. That said, have no problems with my Sport II. It does everything I want.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:44 PM
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What makes S&W better than a Rossi/Taurus/Rohm/

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Old 11-02-2016, 02:14 PM
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My thoughts.

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
yawn

1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
yawn

Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
*Worthy of consideration*

BCM grip vs A2 grip
yawn

BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
yawn

BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
Worthy of consideration for a plastic handguard... not a big deal.

M16 BCG vs AR BCG
yawn

Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger
A smoother lousy GI trigger... yawn.

-----------------------

Apples to Apples... given the choice for the same dollar I'd rather have a Sport with a $200 trigger.

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Old 11-02-2016, 02:32 PM
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Not impressed. For all the hype and build-up, I expected something new, unique and different. It's just another AR with a name. Kind of a letdown.
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:01 PM
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If'n you are after an entry level AR, buy an Anderson lower for $164 at the next gunshow and slap a PSA "Freedom" (not PTAC) with bcg for $279 and you are gtg except for a rear sight. My latest; and if you look carefully you can see the gold color on the empty deflector from 150 trouble free rounds on it's first outing. Joe
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:55 PM
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My counters to Phil's thoughts...

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
yawn
Everything else being equal, the 4150 barrel should last longer in theory... Kinda like 60,000 mile tires vs. 80,000 mile tires... one will outlast the other, but they are both wear items. You decide if the premium for longer wear is worth it.

1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
yawn
Pretty much agree, but if everything else was equal, would choose the 1:8

Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
*Worthy of consideration*
Agree

BCM grip vs A2 grip
yawn
Still have the A2 grip on your rifle? A plus if you like the particular grip.

BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
yawn
Same answer as grip. It is an upgrade, but only of value if you like the stock.

BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
Worthy of consideration for a plastic handguard... not a big deal.
Again, an upgrade, but only if you like the upgraded hand guard.

M16 BCG vs AR BCG
yawn
Agree, but many folks are convinced that they have to change this out.

Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger
A smother lousy GI trigger... yawn.
Smoother is better...

Buffer is a heavy buffer vs. carbine buffer...
Same thought as the BCG

-----------------------

Apples to Apples... given the choice for the same dollar I'd rather have a Sport with a $200 trigger.
But there is enough difference between the two to justify the higher price tag.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westie1 View Post
Wouldn't be surprised that this came about from Springfield's sponsored USPSA/IPSC shooters. And if I was looking at getting a Colt, I think I would take a serious look at the Colt Competition at Cabelas, especially if I lived outside of the DPRCa. That said, have no problems with my Sport II. It does everything I want.
The Colt Competition is made under license by Bold Ideas Texas. It isn't a Colt and resale will be hurt because of that.
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
My thoughts.

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
yawn

1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
yawn

Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
*Worthy of consideration*

BCM grip vs A2 grip
yawn

BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
yawn

BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
Worthy of consideration for a plastic handguard... not a big deal.

M16 BCG vs AR BCG
yawn

Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger
A smoother lousy GI trigger... yawn.

-----------------------

Apples to Apples... given the choice for the same dollar I'd rather have a Sport with a $200 trigger.
I still don't ride my 4 wheeler that much. So, a Saint over a S2 will be a great choice, ANY DAY!
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:14 PM
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waiting on the colt fanboys to come running in.... we all know how much better a colt is over anything


but in all seriousness, from what i'm getting from this thread, why pay any more for an ar than the sport? what makes like daniel defense better? how can you justify those prices for simply free floating the barrel?
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:41 PM
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SA is just trying to play catch up in the AR game. I don't have feelings negative or positive about their rifle. I have one of their pistols and I like it. I like their M1A but I'm not sure I want another $1600 rifle just yet.

I'm not a brand loyalist, I go with the best buy for my money in the features that I want. If the SA offers it, I will consider it, as I will consider a Colt, S&W, and so on. Whichever seems to be the best match, is the firearm I'll get. Which ever one it would end up being, the trigger is going to get changed out unless it comes with a better trigger than standard AR already but it has to have the right pull weight as well.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtsandman View Post
SA is just trying to play catch up in the AR game. I don't have feelings negative or positive about their rifle. I have one of their pistols and I like it. I like their M1A but I'm not sure I want another $1600 rifle just yet.

I'm not a brand loyalist, I go with the best buy for my money in the features that I want. If the SA offers it, I will consider it, as I will consider a Colt, S&W, and so on. Whichever seems to be the best match, is the firearm I'll get. Which ever one it would end up being, the trigger is going to get changed out unless it comes with a better trigger than standard AR already but it has to have the right pull weight as well.
I just recently bought (2) of these for my AR's. The spring kit will come next. But, just eliminating the creep has done wonders for the trigger.

Grade 8 Trigger Adjustment Screw 223 6.5Grendel 300Blackout, with TOOL | eBay
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:56 PM
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I just recently bought (2) of these for my AR's. The spring kit will come next. But, just eliminating the creep has done wonders for the trigger.

Grade 8 Trigger Adjustment Screw 223 6.5Grendel 300Blackout, with TOOL | eBay
I've seen those before but never talked to one who had one installed. Does it stay set pretty well or is a lighter thread locker, like blue or pink going to be needed?
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:03 AM
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For $499.95 delivered to your FFL, I think the Radical Firearms AR (made in Texas, by gosh) is a better deal than this or the M&P - although these are both good guns. Very good trigger out of the box and nice features.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
snm8510 wrote:
waiting on the colt fanboys to come running in.... we all know how much better a colt is over anything
Don't let the people at Rock River hear you say that.
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Old 11-03-2016, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
cyphertext wrote:
Everything else being equal, the 4150 barrel should last longer in theory... Kinda like 60,000 mile tires vs. 80,000 mile tires... one will outlast the other, but they are both wear items. You decide if the premium for longer wear is worth it.
That analogy may be overstating things somewhat. The range of alloying elements in 4140 and 4150 is identical except for the amount of carbon (40/100 percent vs. 50/100 percent, on average) and except at the limits of mechanical performance makes little difference, particularly in the case of a semi-automatic-only rifle.

It might be more apt to say that it's like someone who is only going to drive 30,000 miles in their lifetime comparing 75,000 mile tires with 80,000 mile tires. For most users, the theoretical difference in barrel life will be of interest only to the shooter's heirs.
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:31 AM
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The rifle and the marketing are two different issues.

On the cost/value front, if the MSRP is $899, then they'll probably be had for a little less than around $800 flat. Is that worth it? For me, probably not. Especially with that silly name on it.

On the ad campaign front, it's beyond ridiculous. I really believe SA must've seen the success Sig had with their Legion Series and its silly "Oooooh! Tactical Wizards and 12th Level Phantom Warrior Black Belt Tank Paratrooper Recon LRRP's Only Need Apply! Oooohhh! Ooooohh!!"atmosphere. SA must've been inspired by that to try something they "thought" was hip.

One can almost hear the marketing meetings on the sweaty gym vids used to sell this thing..."This is mod, chill. Folks be thinkin' this is their next bae! They go cray for dis! Deez models, dey is trill, streets ahead! We be fleek and that M&P? It's rekt, bro! Saint girls are hella dank, dust ol' Colt boys getting jelly!"

Um, yeah.

I'm not bashing Sig for starting this type of ad hype (I'm actually pretty close to a fanboy) but I am blaming them. That whole secret decoder ring thing with the case, coin and knife was just embarrassing. Just sell the darned gun and make the other toys included options, whydoncha? No secret handshakes or disappearing ink messages are really needed. Frankly the whole affair felt like some 1950's breakfast cereal mail-in campaign to join the Captain Midnight club or something. Ugh.

But it did seem to catch fire and Sig sold a lot of Legions - I think SA watched all that silliness and thought "We need something mysterious, trendy and name-catchy, too!" Makes one wonder what company is next up to crank out some magical, mystical, cryptic "it!" campaign, filmed like a mid-90's Zima ad. I bet it's S&W.

At any rate, it'll be interesting to see where the real world prices land and how the gun actually shakes out, though.

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Old 11-03-2016, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Disabled1 View Post
I just recently bought (2) of these for my AR's. The spring kit will come next. But, just eliminating the creep has done wonders for the trigger.

Grade 8 Trigger Adjustment Screw 223 6.5Grendel 300Blackout, with TOOL | eBay
Keep in mind that the safety on an AR does not block the hammer from falling forward and striking the firing pin. All the safety does is block trigger movement. Why is that important to understand? Well... sear engagement works as the default drop-safety on a GI trigger. If you reduce sear engagement too much you increase the potential for the hammer to lose sear engagement and slam forward firing a round when the rifle is dropped or otherwise exposed to rough handling. Be cautious when tinkering with your trigger.

Here's an animation that explains how a GI trigger works.


Here's a vid of what the screw does...


Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 11-03-2016 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:00 PM
44wheelman 44wheelman is offline
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Yeah but, 4150 and 4150CMV are not identical. The big difference; Mil spec 4150CMV has .25% vanadium, marginally less carbon than than 4150 (C=.41-.49...only marginally more than 4140 C=.38-.41) and other minuscule tweaks.

MIL-B-11595 E BAR METAL BLANKS STEEL BARRELS SMALL ARMS

Just had to look up what the CMV acronym brought...

We use tool steels in the 9% and 15% Vanadium content, but I'm sure the military feels that .25% must bring alot of wear resistance to the table too.



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Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
That analogy may be overstating things somewhat. The range of alloying elements in 4140 and 4150 is identical except for the amount of carbon (40/100 percent vs. 50/100 percent, on average) and except at the limits of mechanical performance makes little difference, particularly in the case of a semi-automatic-only rifle.

It might be more apt to say that it's like someone who is only going to drive 30,000 miles in their lifetime comparing 75,000 mile tires with 80,000 mile tires. For most users, the theoretical difference in barrel life will be of interest only to the shooter's heirs.

Last edited by 44wheelman; 11-03-2016 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:01 PM
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I have been pondering and researching AR's for a few weeks. I went to my LGS yesterday to check out their offerings and man I was not dissapointed! My main interest was an M&P 15T and they had one in stock. They also had a few Saints priced at $799. I liked the Saint but just was not crazy over the fixed front sight. I want to add an EOTec red dot sight and preferred the fold down front and rear sight of the 15T. I did think about saving a few bucks, going with the Saint and taking off the fixed sight and adding a folding front sight. I left that store and went to a small store that a friend of my FIL owns to see if they could order me a 15T cheaper. He checked it out and said he couldn't get one and was not sure when any would be available. Dern! Went back to the other store and they had sold all their Saints but still had the 15T. I bought it and another guy was buying 2 Sport II's at the same time. The election has got the gun business hopping! In particular AR 15's. It was dark when I got home with it and dark when I got home tonight so I have not shot it yet. Hope to get home a little early Friday and try it out.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
The Saint is a better rifle on paper than the Sport 2 is.

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
BCM grip vs A2 grip
BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
M16 BCG vs AR BCG
Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger
This is an interesting list of things that are different from the Sport II, but not one of them describes why it's $250 better.

I'm not convinced the mid gas system is better than the carbine or vice versa. I have all three, carbine, mid and rifle, and all my guns work without issue. I would love to discuss why one is better than the other.

Upgraded trigger? Upgraded what? Until I actually feel one, I'm with Phil on that, meh.

Everything else is personal preference. Now, if you like all that stuff over the standard cheapo stuff on the Sport II, it will probably save money by buying the SAINT over changing out all that stuff on the M&P. But if you're not in love with it, it's not worth the price because you'll change it out anyway.

At this price level the forearm should be free float and Key Mod or M-Lock.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
This is an interesting list of things that are different from the Sport II, but not one of them describes why it's $250 better.
Every item in that list is an upgrade vs. what the Sport 2 comes with. Are you saying that a BCM key mod hand guard with heat shields is not better than the standard carbine hand guard without heat shields that comes on the Sport?



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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
I'm not convinced the mid gas system is better than the carbine or vice versa. I have all three, carbine, mid and rifle, and all my guns work without issue. I would love to discuss why one is better than the other.
Mid length is said to have a softer recoil impulse. I honestly don't think I could tell if I were shooting blindfolded. But if comparing the Saint to the Sport 2 as stock, the mid length hand guard of the Saint will give you more room on the hand guard, and the sight radius is increased. And, that bayonet you secretly wanted to add to the rifle will fit properly on the 16" barrel with mid-length gas system.


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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Upgraded trigger? Upgraded what? Until I actually feel one, I'm with Phil on that, meh.
The trigger is nickel boron and polished which should make it smoother than the stock trigger. Probably won't feel much different than a polishing job on a GI trigger, but it is already done for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Everything else is personal preference. Now, if you like all that stuff over the standard cheapo stuff on the Sport II, it will probably save money by buying the SAINT over changing out all that stuff on the M&P. But if you're not in love with it, it's not worth the price because you'll change it out anyway.
You may not like it and you may change it out... and if that is the case, then you probably should not buy the rifle. But you can not argue that the BCM furniture is not an upgrade over the standard stuff.


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At this price level the forearm should be free float and Key Mod or M-Lock.
Many rifles are at or above this price point that don't have those features. Colt LE6920 comes to mind and it as basic as basic gets. BCM M4 Mod 0 is also well above the $899 MSRP price, and it is not free floated either.

I don't think it is a bad price for what you are getting. I don't care for the roll mark, but it appears to have many of the things that Sport owners upgrade to already. Each individual will have to decide for themselves if the upgrades are worth the money and a good value.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-2016, 10:45 PM
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For the time being the best bang for your buck is the Colt Expanse.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:51 PM
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Well, it just so happens that if I sell my 4 wheeler I will have enough to buy a SAINT and some other lower priced EL AR. And, a FIELDSPORT red and green dot sight for $22. Decisions, decisions.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:24 PM
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Let me give you my perspective.
I am not an AR guy. Don't own one, don't want one. In fact, this is my first time to even look, much less post in this particular forum.
Nor do I know the differences between one brand or another, features, mods or whatever else is involved with an AR type rifle.

However, I do know Springfield Armory. I own a couple of M1As and several 1911s. I know their quality and I know their customer service is the best.

So if, and that's a big IF I were to buy an AR, I'd buy a Saint and never look back.
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
44wheelman wrote:
Yeah but, 4150 and 4150CMV are not identical. The big difference; Mil spec 4150CMV has .25% vanadium, marginally less carbon than than 4150 (C=.41-.49...only marginally more than 4140 C=.38-.41) and other minuscule tweaks.
Okay, so all you have done to my comment is change it to say that it might be more apt to say that it's like someone who is only going to drive 30,000 miles in their lifetime comparing 75,000 mile tires with 90,000 mile tires.

The conclusion, however, remains the same. Overkill is overkill. For most users, the theoretical difference in barrel life will be of interest only to the shooter's heirs.
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:29 AM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Quote:
kanewpadle wrote:
For the time being the best bang for your buck is the Colt Expanse.
No, it's not.

Well, until you provide a reason for your assertion, it is no more valid than mine disputing you.

In my case, my S&W M&P-15 Sport II cost fully $400 less than the store was selling a Colt Expanse at the time. The S&W rifle is a quality build with good manufacturer support that will almost certainly last me as long as I care to shoot it. In service, it has so far functioned flawlessly. In my circumstances, spending more for a Colt (or any other brand for that matter) would have given me ZERO additional functionality, accuracy or durability, but would have cost me a lot more money.

So, tell me, how does that translate into the Colt providing the "best bang for the buck"?

And how does it translate into Colt providing the "best bang for the buck" for shooters in all circumstances as your post suggests?
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
I don't think it is a bad price for what you are getting. I don't care for the roll mark, but it appears to have many of the things that Sport owners upgrade to already. Each individual will have to decide for themselves if the upgrades are worth the money and a good value.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a modestly upgraded AR... and of course any upgraded AR is going to list for more money than a basic economy one. Hopefully, folks here aren't down on the concept of other than the cheapest AR they can find or build. A Sport II bought at the right price is hard to beat in its class, but even S&W offers and sells more expensive ARs.

My only objection is to the marketing hype that went along with the release of "The SAINT." I found it embarrassingly silly once I saw that it was just another slightly upgraded but otherwise pretty standard AR. It remains to be seen if giving a supposedly cool name ("The SAINT") to your new AR offering was a good idea or a bad one.

I'm old, curmudgeonly, grumpy and even a but jaded. I'm not automatically impressed by an AR just because they gave it a cool name. But maybe they aren't trying to sell that AR to crusty old me. Maybe other folks *are* impressed by an AR with a cool name and those are the folks they are trying to reach with it.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:07 AM
petemacmahon petemacmahon is offline
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IDK, it's just another AR. Kinda like just another Glock. Can't get excited over it. Do I have one, yeah. Do I need another. NO
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:33 AM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Originally Posted by petemacmahon View Post
IDK, it's just another AR. Kinda like just another Glock. Can't get excited over it. Do I have one, yeah. Do I need another. NO
It is just another AR, but I'll take as many manufacturers cranking out ARs as possible. Competition drives prices lower, more to choose from, and harder to push a ban when the rifle is so popular and so widely accepted for hunting, competition, and self defense.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:46 AM
Mark S. Mark S. is offline
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Default Well known manufacturer and customer service makes the difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post

I don't think it is a bad price for what you are getting. I don't care for the roll mark, but it appears to have many of the things that Sport owners upgrade to already. Each individual will have to decide for themselves if the upgrades are worth the money and a good value.
I agree with this (bold) statement. Except for the A2 front sight, these 'enhancements' are what most people change or want to change on their Sport or other basic AR-15.

What makes this SA AR different than most ARs is, like S&W, Springfield Armory is a well known manufacturer that offers a multitude of firearms. That coupled with a great customer service reputation they are able to take a little risk up front when they introduce a new line. And soon after they offer a dizzying number of variations. Think 1911s and other pistols.
Once this SAINT gets off the ground (which it seems like it already has), look for a "Loaded" version of the SA AR-15 in the not too distant future.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
I'm not convinced the mid gas system is better than the carbine or vice versa. I have all three, carbine, mid and rifle, and all my guns work without issue. I would love to discuss why one is better than the other.
There's a ton of information available on the Net regarding different length gas systems. Some of it is over my pay grade. You're a technical guy... I'm sure the readership would benefit from an OP of pros and cons if you wanted to start a thread on it.

I decided an adjustable gas block was the way to go in dealing with my over-gassed carbine. Made a world of difference in felt recoil and the brass is ejecting exactly where the "chart" indicates a properly gassed system should.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:16 AM
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I, like many other AR-15 fans would probably opt to build or slap together an upper and lower of our choice for our next AR.

But that is because I (we) have already bought a couple factory AR-15s and know what we like and don't like in those offerings.

For a first, and possible only AR-15 purchase, the SAINT could be just the ticket. I paid ~$800 for my first basic AR-15 carbine a decade ago. I have put close to ~$200 more into it with 'upgrades' and accessories.

If it weren't for the sentimental value I'd trade that low round count original for a SAINT without much thought.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:50 PM
Brian in Oregon Brian in Oregon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
The Saint is a better rifle on paper than the Sport 2 is.

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
In my opinion, the biggest advantage of 4150 is less barrel deflection under heavy full auto use. This is important in combat, but not for my purposes. And I think the barrel deflection issue is offset to a certain extent by using an A2 barrel profile vs an M4 profile. For my purposes, I would not get a Saint simply to get this feature.

1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
I prefer the 1:9" as I mainly use 55 grainers. I rejected 1:8 and 1:7 barreled guns for this reason.

Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
I like mid length for free float, but not for standard forends.

BCM grip vs A2 grip
BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
I don't care for the BCM furniture, so that's a wash. In fact, I replaced the Sport II furniture with Magpul anyway.

M16 BCG vs AR BCG
If I was using the upper on a select fire lower, this would be nice. Otherwise, meh.

Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger
Have not tried the Saint trigger, so I don't know if this is a worthwhile feature for choosing a Saint over a Sport II. Having said that, my Sport II trigger is OK for a regular AR trigger.

Probably a few things I am forgetting. Each individual will have to decide if the different features are worth the money. Personally, if it can be had for around $800, I think it makes a good alternative to the Colt LE6920. But if you don't like the BCM furniture, it probably is not the best buy available.
Agree. For my purposes, the Sport II was a better buy.
I think the desirability of the Saint vs the Sport II is going to boil down to which features are useful or desirable to the potential owner and which ones are not. Make a check list and tally them up. One of the biggest differences, though, is the BCM furniture. If one does not care for it, then the gun may be a wash as the BCM furniture is a waste of money if changed out.
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:22 PM
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I saw a reply where someone claimed that a Colt is the ultimate AR, or, something similar to that. What does a Colt have (besides costing more) that other AR's don't have while competing against one another? Just because it's stamped Colt means that it's better than any other AR out there? Sure, I had an Vietnam era Colt M16 in Desert Storm, and, it saved my a** a great many times! But, it was fully auto, and one bad MOFO! I don't think today's Colt AR's (even though they are semi-auto) are even close to being as well built as my issued Colt was!
I'm going out on a twig here and going to state that I would rather own an S2 than a Colt!
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:30 PM
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The SAINT? Is there more than one? Did I miss something? Isn't this the S&W Forum?

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Old 11-04-2016, 05:34 PM
drifter2be drifter2be is offline
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$900 MSRP and no chrome-lined barrel. No thanks. Too many other options on the market with a 1-8 twist melonited (nitrided) barrel. It does have some pretty nice furniture, but the grip and stock can be purchased and on any AR-15 that isn't an SBR I would rather have a free floated handguard anyway. All this hype and it ended up being a run of the mill AR-15 with a stupid name. At least it isn't as big of a let down as the new Walther Creed (again, what a stupid name for a gun)
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Old 11-04-2016, 05:43 PM
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What about not buying complete base rifles and instead getting complete uppers and lowers from places like PSA? Most appear to be rated 4-5 stars. Can you not get a Grand worth of rifle for $600 by buying complete uppers and lowers, BCG and CH? I'm talking about items complete with 1/7 twist, Magpul furniture pick-your-own barrel lengths, melonite/nitrite, chrome, keymod or M-LOK rails (pick your own length), no sights or gas blocks to remove. etc etc.

(Not saying that S&W or any major brand is a bad move due to being ready-to-fire out of the box, lifetime warranties, etc.

Last edited by SavageMessiah; 11-04-2016 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 11-04-2016, 06:28 PM
Wolffe 104 Wolffe 104 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
The Saint is a better rifle on paper than the Sport 2 is.

4150 CMV barrel vs 4140 barrel on the sport
1:8 twist vs 1:9 twist
Mid length gas system vs. carbine gas
BCM grip vs A2 grip
BCM stock vs standard M4 stock
BCM keymod hand guard with heat shields vs standard guards without heat shields
M16 BCG vs AR BCG
Upgraded trigger vs standard trigger

Probably a few things I am forgetting. Each individual will have to decide if the different features are worth the money. Personally, if it can be had for around $800, I think it makes a good alternative to the Colt LE6920. But if you don't like the BCM furniture, it probably is not the best buy available.
+ 1 and I will add: Carpenter 158 Steel Bolt, Shot Peened & Magnetic Particle Inspected.
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