Hi:
Would like shooter/user opinions between Commander style and sub compact Officers Model .45acp Model 1911 pistols' accuracy and function

Thanks,
Jimmy

IMHO the shorter you get, the more problems. I have never had any problems with my commander. I do not have any first hand opinions with anything smaller.

A Colt Lt Wt Commander is my EDC. Shoots great, completely reliable, never a problem with it.
I also have an old Springfield Ultra Compact that I bought used. After several years of tinkering with it off and on, I finally got it about 99% reliable with hard ball. Its still a little finicky with HPs.
I don't carry this gun.

The handling between to two is also different. I can shoot the Commander much better than the Compact.

From what I've both seen and read, 1911s shorter than 4" tend to be troublesome.

Ideal IMO is a commander with a bobtail for concealment.

Example -
Dan Wesson Commander Classic Bobtail - Dan Wesson

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

I think the closer you stay to the original 5" design, the better off you are.

That doesn't mean 3 or 3 1/2" models can't be reliable. Just more likely not to be compared to their longer counterparts.

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Because of the metric system?

I love Commanders and have carried one of some variation for several years. When the OM came out I really liked the size especially in the LWT version. At one time I actually carried two LWT OM's (Detroit reload).


All of the OM's I had shot exceptionally well after a little minor tuning and didn't lose much to my Gold Cups. One thing I did do was to replace the dual recoil spring with a heavy single.


I have had a couple of the Defender size guns and even though I don't have all that big of a hand I really didn't like them as far as shooting them.


I actually think the OM is a better CCW gun than the Commander due to the shorter grip frame. In reality a Commander isn't any easier to conceal than a Gov't model.

I have been carrying a LW Officers model for about 15 years. I replaced the recoil system with Wilson when I first got it. It has been totally reliable since and plenty accurate. I shoot it most every week so probably has several thousand rounds thorough it. My carry ammo is 230 gr hollow point and i have fired other ammo thorough it.
Bob Ray

For me the shortness of barrel threshold ends at 4.25 inches. Lots of reliability at that length and a conventional barrel bushing and GI guide rod/spring/recoil plug is a must for me.

YMMV

I have a Colt Commander: 100% reliable, very accurate.
I had experience with a USAF-issued officer's model: all bad. Was halfway reliable with its favorite ammo, but not with the issued ammo.

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Science plus Art

Just a few weeks ago I bought a new Rock Island .45 Commander off the net for $346 shipped and I am extremely impressed with the gun and think it would be a bargain at 200 bucks more. Some people like the balance of the Commander more than the Govt model and I may be one of them, and I can knock the steel plates down really fast at my 50 foot range. I have carried it concealed a few times and it is really heavy so I would think a lightweight officers model would be a better CCW.

I only care for full size 1911's, but that's just me.

My EDC is a Colt Commander (Commander=light weight, Combat Commander=steel frame).

Great to shoot, great to carry.

The smaller 45's aren't as reliable, or as easy to shoot or get into action quickly.

I wouldn't buy a 45 smaller than the Commander/Combat Commander.

I own full sized 1911's, commanders, and the Colt Defender 3''.

The full size and commanders are generally good to go. I see no real difference between reliability.

Go shorter than 4.25 inch, and you need to be careful with your choices. Personally, the only sub commander 1911 I would trust is my Colt Defender .45. Mine shoots GI ball 100 percent reliably (I don't bother with hollow points).

A point to keep in mind with the 3'' 1911: the spring assembly needs to be kept maintained on a very regular basis. The telescoping dual spring of my Defender needs the larger spring changed every 700 rounds to ensure reliability. The whole assembly is rather 'pushed to its limit' even at rest, so I keep a whole assembly on hand just in case.

If you want less maintenance, get a commander. If you want a dedicated carry gun that you're willing to maintain and watch over, get the Colt Defender .45

What 1776 said......I have all three sizes and have been carrying and shooting them for decades. I have had good service from all three sizes, I also run HB in my OM. Mine have all served me well.

Pushing the envelope.

Gummint and Officer's models in 10 mm.

Been carrying and shooting them for over 15 years. So far so good.

Officer's Model could be described as a 3/4 scale Gummint model

Great for CCW

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Eccentric old coot

My Rock island Armory 'Compact' is an officer's model with a 3 5/8 inch barrel. I've shot it some with my cast bullet handloads in 230 gr RN and 175 gr semi-wadcutter. I've also shot a little Federal 230 gr JHP (those things are expensive!). The rounds are shown below. Although the book says it may not function with semi-wadcutters, mine digests them just fine. I've had nothing but perfect results shooting this pistol with everything I've fed it. I like it so much it's beside me at the computer as I write this, and I've had Novak night sights fitted to it, as well as checkered grips. My friend's daughter has one too, and although she hasn't shot it as much as I've shot mine, her results are the same. What does Armscor in the Philippines know that nobody else seems to know?

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I shoot these two regularly at the range at 21 feet and there is very little difference between the 4 1/4 barrel and the 5".
If anything, the 5" Colt 1911 (made in 1916) groups a bit wider but that may be due to the WW2 barrel I shoot with it. (The WW1 P over H barrel comes out, she's too valuable to exercise that barrel.)

My experience`s with this(these) models are at opposing ends. My first venture to a compact was a Para Ordnance P13. Compact/Officer`s frame height but double stack,13 round magazine. Bought one and decided to trick it out. Well, to make a long story short, I couldn`t throw enough money at it to make it function reliably. I know there is a column here on the forum devoted to "the worst purchase" (or similar words) and I have been tempted to add my commiserations to the group but it would take too long and make me re-live a horrible time devoted to making that pistol run. I gave up, returned the pistol to stock form and traded it back at the shop where I bought it figuring if they had the nerve to sell it once they could do it again. The pistol I traded for was a Kimber Compact (steel frame) which had an external extractor...in case anyone doesn`t know Kimber went through a period of marketing with the external extractor. Their Compact model is available with a 4 inch bull barrel,Officer`s frame and has been available at various times with both an alloy and steel frame. I think they are marketing that model now with an alloy frame but steel was available at the time and that`s what I wanted. Again,to make a long story short, it would shoot any ammo I put in it, and accurately. A problem developed with it after some time in which it would eject fired cases squarely into my face/forehead, hit my shooting glasses,etc. After a few cookie cutter events with bleeding forehead I started a little research and discovered that Kimber was replacing the slides gratis. They did so and that pistol runs great, just as the first one did but without the attendant brass ejection problem. I have added a Wilson flat wire recoil spring"system"as the factory standard coil spring/replacements seem to wear out fairly rapidly and I would recommend that rig to anyone with a Compact/Officer`s model. I consider my Kimber Compact perfect in every respect I considered when I bought it and their service regarding the slide was top-notch. John

I'm another that is well satisfied with the RIA 1911 Compact. I have 2 of them, I had the 45 for about 8-9 years, and bought the 9mm a couple years ago. Mine have digested all types if ammo, SWC, LRN, Coated TC, JHP, etc. I don't think I have ever had a failure to fire or eject. The triggers are fine, I use the 9mm as received, but 8 years ago they weren't as good, so the 45 has had improved sights and a trigger job.





The only problems are they are all steel, and fully loaded are heavier than a lot of carry guns. I do use a OWB holster made by Lobo for them.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

My only non 5" 1911, is a Rock Island Commander. It is a Tactical 2, in .40S&W. It is accurate for me, and a joy to shoot. Bob
Sorry about the oily pics, and it now has nice wood!

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I've heard the caution that 1911s shorter than 4.25" are not reliable, but it's not quite that simple.

The earliest compact 1911s in .45 ACP were not generally well regarded for reliability and that negative reputation has stuck. More recent compact 1911s are better engineered, and when made by a reputable company they can be every bit as reliable as a full sized 1911

A short officer model framed 1911 requires some engineering changes to ensure reliability. However, if properly designed, any reliability problems are more often than not due to the actions and modifications of the end user.

For example, these smaller frame, shorter slide 1911s have reduced slide over run available and that shorter over run distance means reduced over run time. If the end user decides he or she knows more than the design engineer and adds a shock buffer, he or she is going to be reducing the slide over run distance. Shock buffers do this just by nature of limiting rearward slide travel, and with the already short over run of a compact 1911, there isn't a travel that can be given up. or the over run time as changing springs changes slide velocity and rebound characteristics. Similarly, if the shooter changes the recoil spring weight, he will be changing the slide velocity and rebound characteristics, reducing the over run time. Both these changes will have a negative impact on feeding and reliability.

Kimber's Ultra Carry is often cited as an example of an "unreliable" compact 1911, but many of those same people end up swapping springs, magazines, etc before the pistol has been properly broken in, and then they blame the pistol.

I carried the Ultra Carry below for nearly 10 years and after a couple hundred rounds to break it in, it has been relentlessly reliable with a wide range of ammunition types. It surprised me from the start by being as accurate or more accurate than most 5" 1911s. The recoil is also very manageable, far better than you'd think when you lift it up and feel what it weighs, and I shoot it just as well as a LW Commander in .45 ACP.

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I've recently started carrying a Commander sized 1911 in 9mm, mostly because I like the reduced recoil and consequently faster follow up shots that 9mm offers compared to a .45 ACP as well as the 10+1 capacity.

The counter argument to a 3" or 3.5" 1911 is that a 4" or 4.25" isn't significantly harder to carry. The extra slide length just isn't a factor in carry comfort when you are using an IWB holster on your hip.

I own a Sig Sauer EMP and have carried it for 2 years now. NO PROBLEMS and I've fired everything from Critical Defense to Tula Steel case.

My "compact" 1911 is a gun i put together....a officers frame with a commander slide and barrel...a homemade CCO in 45acp. Beyond that my 1911 interests are pretty much 5" pistols in 45 acp.......Mike

I have a full size Colt 45, a Colt Commander, and my "Officers Model" sized 45 is a ..... Shudder ..... Kimber Ultra CDP II.

I have never had even one malfunction with the Kimber, which I bought brand new, and have run lots of differing kinds of ammo through, mostly, I'll admit was factory FMJ Federal. (I got a really good deal on a couple of thousand rounds once). I have also shot my own handloads, and JHP style ammo including my favorite carry ammo, the Speer Gold Dot ammo in several different bullet weights.

I have nothing but praise for this little gun, which so many seem to love to criticize. My only complaint is that it is more difficult to disassemble for cleaning than the standard design 1911.

But as far as reliability goes, it has been completely reliable...and very accurate. It will shoot with much more conventional guns, although I assume that it is losing some velocity with the shorter barrel. My only modification was to replace the plastic mainspring housing.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Simple explanation:

The shorter compact pistols have less mass (weight) in the slide, so they require stronger and heavier recoil springs to allow the pistols to cycle without battering or damaging the parts.

Also, the shorter barrels do not allow sufficient barrel time for complete combustion of the powder charges of some loads, affecting overall cartridge performance (velocity, chamber pressure, recoil impulse, etc).

These two factors can combine to significantly narrow the optimal performance range of the pistol, making each potential variable more critical to correct function. Things like powder burning rates, small variations in powder charge, ambient temperature, temperature of ammunition, resistance to recoil (proper grip, etc), and others can more easily result in less-than-optimal performance, with potentials for failures to occur.

The full-size 1911 pistol was purpose-built around a brand new cartridge design specifically intended for that pistol. That was no small accomplishment for the time period (1904-1911 and a bit beyond for subsequent modifications). The pistol and cartridge must work together during any conditions to assure proper performance. Changes in the pistol design and/or ammunition specifications can strain the envelope, maybe even tear it apart.

I have a Kimber ultra 3" gun and a sig carry 4" gun both have handled everything I have thrown at them


prefer carrying the Kimber 3" its lighter and just fits my hand perfect

but the sig is a very nice pistol as well but with a steel frame vs the alloy frame of the raptor

go with the one you like the feel of the best, just understand the 3" is a little harder to field strip