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Old 01-12-2017, 06:07 PM
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Default New Smith Mongoose 357 Kind of Funny

Maybe I just have a warped sense of humor. Got my new edition of American Handgunner today. On page 52, the new Smith & Wesson Mongoose is featured under an article titled New Handguns. The revolver "that hearkens back to the days when a revolver was a hand-built piece of functioning art." Nighthawk and Korth join forces and behold a new 357. I guess this is good except for the funny looking hammer. . .you could get something stuck in that thing. I haven't noticed a shortage of real vintage Smith 357 works of art in the market place lately, and for good prices too. Perhaps I'll be dazzled when this new thing comes out and I get to hold one. I doubt it. A functioning piece of art looks more like this gun, a Model 27-2. To me anyway!
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:47 PM
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So is the new .357 a Smith or a Korth & Nighthawk?
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:21 PM
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Upon closer look at the picture, it is a clone. . .or should I say another copy of a notable gun. All the little markings (grips, sides, etc) create the first impression that this must be a Smith. I think the emblem on the grips threw me the most. It's not a Smith. So, let's repaint the Mona Lisa again and again and again. Now that revolvers are back in vogue, I guess we can expect to see more of this. Just like the AR15 platform or the Colt M1911. Everybody needs to make a gun on those platforms. Wait! Everybody does.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:29 PM
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S&W doesn't have a Mongoose in its catalog for 2017 so, clearly, it is some other company's revolver. Kinda nice lookin' though but I have a M27.....
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:50 PM
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I'm gonna pass on this one...




Quick change cylinder for caliber change to 9mm w/o clips is neat though...S&W could take a note from this...I know they had clipless ejection with the 547...would be neat if they still had it on the 986 PC snub....
I am liking the revolver market competition that's cropping up this year.

MSRP is $3499

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Old 01-12-2017, 09:03 PM
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Doesn't look like a Snake killer to me.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:21 PM
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Doesn't look like a Snake killer to me.
Not sure what a snake killer would be. All of the snakes I know of are dead, although I hear that a stainless Dick Special is going to make like a phoenix and attempt to impersonate a Cobra.


??
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:37 PM
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Can not be a Smith and Wesson - No Lock. Where are the team of a thousand overpaid lawyers when you need them?
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:42 PM
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Can not be a Smith and Wesson - No Lock. Where are the team of a thousand overpaid lawyers when you need them?
It's Korth marketed by Nighthawk.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:49 PM
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OMG. . .$3499.00!!! Thanks to SLT for posting that thing. I wouldn't pay $1000.00 for it unless I could turn it fast and plow the profit back into some vintage Smiths.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:15 PM
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Doesn't look like a Snake killer to me.
I think Ole Sam can make another Snake.

As sure as Ford can build a car....
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:08 PM
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They should kill the frills and compete directly with S&W @ the $1000 < price level and force competition....

We'd see some positive changes from Smith as a result...

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Old 01-13-2017, 12:11 AM
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Not sure what a snake killer would be. All of the snakes I know of are dead, although I hear that a stainless Dick Special is going to make like a phoenix and attempt to impersonate a Cobra.


??
No arguement, but they named it "mongoose" not me
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:01 AM
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The genius attribute of this weapon is the quick-switch fitted 9mm cylinder option that allow you to go back and forth between 9mm and .357. AND, with the Korth, moon clips are not required for 9mm - the mandatory clip requirement by S&W is why my count of 9mm revolvers owned is zero. The design question of the Korth is why did they choose to only mill 6 chambers in the cylinder?

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Old 01-13-2017, 08:47 AM
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For that kind of money you can buy a S&W 357 and a S&W 9mm and skip the trick cylinder switch. I personally love moon clips and the easy reloads and brass pickup that comes with them.

Wouldn't be so handy a set up if you bumped the yoke latch and found your cylinder laying on the ground when you really really wanted it in the gun.

Gimmicks and guns don't mix that well for me.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
.

Wouldn't be so handy a set up if you bumped the yoke latch and found your cylinder laying on the ground when you really really wanted it in the gun.

Gimmicks and guns don't mix that well for me.
I doubt it would be that easy

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Old 01-13-2017, 10:00 AM
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I doubt it would be that easy

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Maybe, but I tend to think "if it can, it will"

Shows the guy just pressing the button to unlock and slide out yoke. I can see some one gun empty, muzzle rolled down, trying to line up cylinder as he presses ammo against it. Bumps button with knuckle or something, cylinder unlocked and falling out.

Why the extra gimmick of a button? With a Smith, one screw out, another yoke and cylinder in. Install screw. You don't even really need an extra yoke, because you can slide extractor rod and cylinder assy out of yoke and slide another one in. I wouldn't pay thousands to save removing one screw. Used to have a S&W dual 45 set up like that and it worked fine. Never in that big of hurry when I wanted to chance cylinders. Its neat alright, just like the skeleton hammer, but really just fluff to me.

Not impressed that much by 9mm revolvers either. But, even the autos don't cut it for me.

But, hey whatever floats somebodies boat.

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Old 01-13-2017, 10:14 AM
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$3500 for a gun that looks like a dog's rear end? Not this guy!
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:21 PM
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For that kind of money you can buy a S&W 357 and a S&W 9mm and skip the trick cylinder switch. I personally love moon clips and the easy reloads and brass pickup that comes

Ditto here. We need a rimless .38/.357 rounds to better handle moons.

Yeah for that money, you could buy a 627 and a 929 with almost 1k to spare.

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Old 01-13-2017, 08:31 PM
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Yup, a dog's rear end! I hope the developers of this Mongoose gun are reading this thread. It would be very enlightening for them especially after being noted in American Handgunner. In general, I have a lot of problems with the gun just looking at pictures of it; but, the biggest problem is the price. Insane! With $3500 I have a very good chance of picking up maybe 10 vintage Smiths this new year. All of them with solid investment/return potential. Plus, it will be fun to find and own 10 more. If I really want to be selective and go high-end, I am sure I could invest that money in 4 vintage Smiths and really have something to write home about.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:37 PM
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Yup, a dog's rear end! I hope the developers of this Mongoose gun are reading this thread. It would be very enlightening for them especially after being noted in American Handgunner. In general, I have a lot of problems with the gun just looking at pictures of it; but, the biggest problem is the price. Insane! With $3500 I have a very good chance of picking up maybe 10 vintage Smiths this new year. All of them with solid investment/return potential. Plus, it will be fun to find and own 10 more. If I really want to be selective and go high-end, I am sure I could invest that money in 4 vintage Smiths and really have something to write home about.
Agreed. For $3500 they could've used screws that didn't look like they came from Harbor Freight!!
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Old 01-14-2017, 01:31 AM
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They should kill the frills and compete directly with S&W @ the $1000 < price level and force competition....

We'd see some positive changes from Smith as a result...


What frills are there to remove?

"Frills" or not, I very seriously doubt that gun could be produced for $1000.
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Old 01-14-2017, 09:25 AM
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The genius attribute of this weapon is the quick-switch fitted 9mm cylinder option that allow you to go back and forth between 9mm and .357. AND, with the Korth, moon clips are not required for 9mm - the mandatory clip requirement by S&W is why my count of 9mm revolvers owned is zero. The design question of the Korth is why did they choose to only mill 6 chambers in the cylinder?
Sam Colt Was a Religious Man. The Good Book said the Earth

was made in Six Days. Ole Sam decided on 'SIX' too.

Six Shooter just sounds right.At least Korth got that part

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Old 01-14-2017, 11:22 AM
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Sam Colt Was a Religious Man. The Good Book said the Earth

was made in Six Days. Ole Sam decided on 'SIX' too.

Six Shooter just sounds right.At least Korth got that part
Wasn't the Colt Patterson a 5-shot?
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:29 AM
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What frills are there to remove?

"Frills" or not, I very seriously doubt that gun could be produced for $1000.
Quick change cylinder, skeltonized hammer. I'm sure I can find some more If I handled it. I know those unique traits are to set it apart. I'd rather see S&W get more direct competition. Kimber and Colt seem to be going after some of their market share in 2017.

Realistically, Nighthwak / Korth probably cant compete with S&W at a $1000 product level. That $3500 advertised MSRP is already well below a regular Korth.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:21 AM
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I'm sorry, but for almost a third the price you can have an 8 shot S&W Model 327 TRR8 from the Performance Center that's no more or less ugly. Throw in a 9mm Shield and you've also got yourself a New York reload for right around half price.
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:48 AM
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OMG. . .$3499.00!!!
The decimal is in the wrong place, I think...needs to be moved to the left.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:34 PM
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My wife and I were watching "This Old House" last night. We have determined that the people who decide what is in style these days have taste for dog poo!

The "Style" of this revolver, is that of a country in the last weeks of loosing a war! The finish is much better! but the looks are butt ugly! For $3500 you would think the grip wouldn't come from Firestone!

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Old 03-18-2017, 01:07 PM
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Agreed. For $3500 they could've used screws that didn't look like they came from Harbor Freight!!
...and a high polish blue...and some checkered wood grips.

Since the 357 and the 9mm fire two different diameter bullets, I've always been suspect of the switch cylinder guns like this.

Accuracy surely suffers with one or the other.
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Old 03-18-2017, 01:27 PM
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So some paid stooge said let's call it the "Mongoose" and then some overpaid exec said yeah good idea
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:00 PM
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The decimal is in the wrong place, I think...needs to be moved to the left.
Two places? Larry
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:14 PM
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I love revolvers but I could never see myself buying one of those ugly things even at a $600 price point.

the revolver is a classic, high polished blue steel, nickel or stainless steel with nice wood is the essence of class.

That pistol looks more like a pair of green corduroy jeans rather than a pair of classic blue denim Levi's.

I have a little money and could afford the gun, but I don't see anything that would make me want to spend that kind of money on it, in fact I have seen rohm's that I liked the looks of better
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:01 PM
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With all due respect to the guys who are experts with decades of experience with revolvers, I'm going to go on record and say they will sell everyone they make. Most of you guys know the level of quality that these things are made to, and most people with experience in manufacturing know that "ten percent higher quality results in double the life at triple the cost.". Plus we live in a country now which thinks nothing of spending ridiculous amounts of money to demonstrate refined tastes. Otherwise how do you explain $70,000 pickup trucks that never go off paved roads?
Also, there are plenty of ARs out there that sell for many thousands of dollars. This thing is as sensible in the market place as a $3500 AR, and people line up to buy those..........
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:21 PM
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How does it shoot?
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:40 PM
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I'd much rather have Doc's 3.5 27!!!
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:18 PM
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And just to be clear: I think Korths are fabulous revolvers and wish I could afford one!
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
For that kind of money you can buy a S&W 357 and a S&W 9mm and skip the trick cylinder switch. I personally love moon clips and the easy reloads and brass pickup that comes with them.

Wouldn't be so handy a set up if you bumped the yoke latch and found your cylinder laying on the ground when you really really wanted it in the gun.

Gimmicks and guns don't mix that well for me.
I agree on all points, especially about the moon clips. All revolvers should be made to use them.
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  #38  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:11 PM
Lee's Landing Billy Lee's Landing Billy is offline
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I vote with post 33. There are folks with money who have no idea of ever shooting this gun who will pay the price to have the "new girl in town".
As posted above, this is way under what an imported Korth would cost. Just look at the folks who regularly pay $4K for 1911s. I have built and shot 1911s all my life, anybody who pays crazy money for them simply doesn't understand the workings of one.
I won't have one of these Mongooses, but I would never have had a Korth either. Yes I understand how wonderful they are, it's just that I already own over 100 handguns that can outshoot me. Though if I used that yardstick I would never buy another one.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:27 PM
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I find the new Korth revolvers rather hideous but they have the same mechanical advantages of the Korth trigger system that Willi Korth developed. By the way, there is less chance of "dropping" the cylinder from a Korth than from a S&W revolver, the retention is positive.

See the bearing for double action? That is why the Korth's trigger is so smooth. I removed the hand and hammer block to allow a better view.

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Old 04-07-2017, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irn-Bru View Post
So some paid stooge said let's call it the "Mongoose" and then some overpaid exec said yeah good idea
Great to pass judgement on someone you don`t know, nor know anything about! I met the C.E.O of Korth in their factory in Lollar when I needed a higher front sight for one of my revolvers and he was very helpful and courteous. That C.E.O. is Mr. Andreas Weber, not only a very nice guy but also a fellow gun enthusiast. His family is mainly manufacturing precision parts for the automotive industry, which allows them to have the Korth factory more or less as a hobby.
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  #41  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:43 PM
Brian in Oregon Brian in Oregon is offline
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Originally Posted by jtcarm View Post
Ditto here. We need a rimless .38/.357 rounds to better handle moons.
I thought the 10mm Model 610 had that covered?
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  #42  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:53 PM
Brian in Oregon Brian in Oregon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V1 Rotate View Post
With all due respect to the guys who are experts with decades of experience with revolvers, I'm going to go on record and say they will sell everyone they make. Most of you guys know the level of quality that these things are made to, and most people with experience in manufacturing know that "ten percent higher quality results in double the life at triple the cost.". Plus we live in a country now which thinks nothing of spending ridiculous amounts of money to demonstrate refined tastes. Otherwise how do you explain $70,000 pickup trucks that never go off paved roads?
Also, there are plenty of ARs out there that sell for many thousands of dollars. This thing is as sensible in the market place as a $3500 AR, and people line up to buy those..........
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I have no doubt they will sell. Just not to me. As fine a gun as Korth's are, they are priced far above what I want to pay for a revolver.

As for $70,000 pickup trucks, too much sticker shock for me. I just bought a cherry 2002 F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 with 78K miles for a fraction of that. Cleanest 15 year old truck I've ever seen. Kinda goes hand in hand with buying used guns.
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  #43  
Old 04-10-2017, 02:43 PM
RichCapeCod RichCapeCod is offline
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I don't believe the Korth is "worth" $3,500 dollars. I doubt the handgun is any more practical (or even accurate) than my heavy barrel model 10. None the less, it's a beautifully made, well thought out design.

Practical? Not at that price. I do like the cylinder swap design and cannot think of a reason S&W could not incorporate such a useful design into some of their handguns.
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  #44  
Old 04-10-2017, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DocB View Post
OMG. . .$3499.00!!! Thanks to SLT for posting that thing. I wouldn't pay $1000.00 for it unless I could turn it fast and plow the profit back into some vintage Smiths.
And very hard to shoot with the grip facing up
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